posted
I've heard from a ton of people that ENT screwed up by putting Romulans in, however, does anyone know of the back story to how they got where they are in that Ep? The only BG I ever saw about Warp came from DD Books about the Federation encountering the Romulans and then the Romulans disabling one of the Federation's ships and using it to construct their own. This obviously isn't true in the timeline recently established, so anyone know what the story is?
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
There is no story. We don't know if the ENT BoPs had warp or not. I'm inclined to say they do have warp, and the TOS BoPs also have warp. In this case, the whole story becomes a nonissue.
OTOH, Rick Sternbach, in one of his Magazine articles, proposes that the early BoPs were carried to the frontlines by huge warpcarriers, and that the BoPs themselves usually didn't have warp drive.
posted
In no way do I think that Enterprise screwed up the Romulans and how they are portrayed in "Minefield", because frankly, there is not enough information available to misread or judge their technological place in the 22nd Century.
Here are the facts gathered thus far based on quotes from "Balance of Terror":
Spock : "Referring to the map on your screens, you will note beyond the movement of our vessel, a line of Earth outpost stations. Constructed on asteroids, they monitor the neutral zone established from treaty following the Earth-Romulan conflict of over a century ago."
Spock : "As you may recall from your histories, this conflict was fought, by our standards today, with primitive atomic weapons and in primitive space vessels, which allowed no quarter, no captives, nor was there even ship-to-ship visual communication. Therefore no human, Romulan or ally has ever seen the other."
Spock : "Earth believes the Romulans to be warlike, cruel, treacherous, and only the Romulans know what they think of Earth. The treaty, set by sub-space radio, established this neutral zone, entry into which by either side would constitute an act of war. The treaty has been unbroken since that time."
Kirk : "After a whole century, what will a Romulan ship will look like, Mr. Stiles. I doubt they'll radio and identify themselves." Stiles : "You'll know sir. They're painted like a giant bird of prey."
Kirk : "I had no idea history was your specialty." Stiles : "Family history. There was a Captain Stiles in the space service then, two commanders, several junior officers -- all lost in that war, sir." Kirk : "Their war, Mr. Stiles. Not yours. Don't forget it."
As for Romulans and warp...Scotty DID mention that the bird of prey they were pursuing ran on "pure impulse power". This does not indicate that the Romulans of 100 years past did not have warp drive or even that OTHER Romulan ships of the 1701 era didnt have warp drive, simply that the ship in question, which they were pursuing, was running on "simple impulse power".
It seems highly unlikely that a species that somehow got from Vulcan to Romulus 1000 years ago, which seemingly has subspace radio, and cloaking devices (during ENT era and based on TOS info) cannot be sophiticated enough to have warp drive.
If you think about it, the weapons we have seen on the NX-01 so far have been significantly primitive compared to what we see on the 1701, not to mention the fact that a ship limited to Warp 5 is fairly primitive by the means of the 23rd Century as well. Also consider that the NX-01 is also the most sophisticated ship of its time. For all we know, it is reasonably likely that in young fleet-based agency such as Starfleet, employed many known primitive ships indiginous to that era, such as the ever popular DY-500 model or what have you. The same can be said about the Romulan vessels, which may only be limited to low warp as well.
Again, there is not enough information present based on TOS, ENT or otherwise to indicate Romulans do or do not have warp drive during the era of the Earth-Romulan War. Only time will tell, as presumably this is a topic that will build over the next 5 1/2 years.
BTW isnt this more a "Starships & Technology" related thread?
1. The name "Romulans". Clearly a reference to Earth's history, which should have been made up by some human (even Archer himself in a predestination paradoxon). But it comes from the translator and from T'Pol, respectively.
2. The cloaking. Something astonishing and new in "Balance of Terror", the Romulans have it already here. Don't anyone tell me they wouldn't use it in the war and it wouldn't become a well-known tactic.
3. The missing bird depiction on the ships. This may seem like a minor point and we could still excuse it in that another ship type with a bird on it will be predominant in the Romulan War. On the other hand, Styles' statement sounded very definite (as if all ships had it). It is annoying that they didn't try to get at least this right.
quote:Styles : "You'll know sir. They're painted like a giant bird of prey."
4. The ship's overall too modern look. This is something we must get used to, but Eaves could at least have restrained himself and (for once) not used his usual pointed nacelle designs.
They didn't screw up the warp drive issue. Romulans must have had warp drive already back then. The common notion that they didn't has no canon ground but an over- and mis-interpretation of the "simple impulse" statement by Scotty from BoT.
-------------------- Bernd Schneider
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Sternbach's pertinent article from Star Trek: The Magazine may be found here, and is vague enough to allow flexibility of interpretation as things progress on ENT.
And Bernd, there clearly is a bird-like design to the bottom of the ENT BoP. The fact that it's not actually painted on is rather insignificant.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Styles' comments at face value, take not. Or Spock's. That is the path to the dark side.
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Styles : "Family history. There was a Captain Styles in the space service then, two commanders, several junior officers -- all lost in that war, sir."
Isn't there a Styles on Enterprise?
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Has everyone forgotten the line by Picard about Romulans only getting warp, 100 years previous to Insurrection?
No, actually it said simply as follows:
Adm. Dougherty : "Warp drive transformed a bunch of Romulan thugs into an Empire. We can handle the Son'a. I'm not worried about that." Picard : "Somebody probably said the same thing about the Romulans a century ago."
I am not entirely sure what this means, but I think
quote:Romulans only getting warp, 100 years previous to Insurrection
is assuming a bit much.
Granted we know for certain that appox. 107 years earlier "The Enterprise Incident" that Romulans had warp drive...but I hardly beleive a line Picard was using on Dougherty for dramatics is enough to establish as a date. This is especially evident because 1) The Romulans were an Empire in "Balance of Terror" (a al word of 'the Preator') and 2) Wasnt there something about Romulans near Alpha Centauri in DS9's "Past Tense"? Does anyone know what that was for sure...but I think that "Past Tense" has some fairly damning evidence to suggest Romulans had warp or something more advanced that Earth 20 years from now...
-------------------- Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
That line is now subject to interpretation, as it has been called into question by more sensical stuff. But just to be clear, here's the pertinent INS dialogue:
quote:PICARD Our "partners" are nothing more than petty thugs.
DOUGHERTY (dismissing that) On Earth, petroleum once turned petty thugs into world leaders. Warp drive transformed a bunch of Romulan thugs into an empire. We can handle the Son'a, I'm not worried about that...
PICARD Someone probably said the same thing about the Romulans a century ago.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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