Has anyone ever seen this site? I thought it was great. Hope to get some replys.Enterprise Site Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
You thought it was great? I'd hate to see what you consider terrible.
This site makes me appreciate the majority of the people here who dislike Enterprise. At least they can make a point and get me to see and understand their point of view. This guy is just all over the place. And he ain't even funny.
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
"I knew you liked Pineapples, so I had the chef cook you some eggs. Because they kinda look like pineapples if you pretend."
That is hilarious, although my personell opinons are simple blabber.
Posted by Magnus de Pym (Member # 239) on :
"I knew you liked Pineapples, so I had the chef cook you some eggs. Because they kinda look like pineapples if you pretend." is many things, none of which are hilarious. Or funny.
Posted by Magnus de Pym (Member # 239) on :
"Because if I can see so many great potential scenes that were lost or never filmed, or so many badly written scenes that were put on film, then that is proof that I can do a good show of my own."
No.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
that site is about the dumbest thing i've ever seen.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
As I said, he's all over the place. And his logic is, as well. I can't quite follow the stream of thought that goes from weak-comedy-site-slamming-Enterprise to I'm-going-to-be-a-fabulous-producer. Reminds me of the business strategy of South Park's Underwear Gnomes.
Step 1: Post the diatribes that my dog laughs at on the Internet. Step 2: ? Step 3: Bag hot chicks with the red convertible I'll be driving as a rockin' producer.
That Step 2 is a bitch.
Posted by Magnus de Pym (Member # 239) on :
"The Series will feature the largest cast of characters ever for a Television Series, and an incredible sense of continuity as we build up storylines, like "Babylon 5", "Homicide: Life on the Street" and "Captain Power"."
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Wow, I have learned a lot about those acters! And those complaints that no characters are promoted or killed in the pilot. Spot on. Spot on. Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Welcome to my Enterprise pages located at First TV Drama.com. As someone who is trying to get his own show going, I see an opportunity to hone my skills by breaking down my potential future competition.
An absolutely brilliant strategy, man!
I started out by reading a few of the reviews. He seems to think that "nitpicking = reviewing." But you, sir, are no Cynic. He does make a few interesting points there, but he seems to take the whole so-called "analysis" to the extreme and uses some pretty silly examples to justify it.
quote:Can someone explain how a race, who strives on trading with multiple different races, can survive centuries through the time periods of Archer, Pike, Kirk, Decker, Harriman, Garrett and into Picard's time before first contact is even made? Come on Producers, even Bigfoot was caught on tape.
Bigfoot? Oh yeah, that's a GREAT example to justify your position!
(As an aside, though, I will concede one interesting nit that I've never seen mentioned before: "The Ferengis are SO thorough in their search for the vault, they manage to overlook the ONE room with a lock on it and not even try to break in." -- Daniel's quarters!)
*reads more*
Okay, this guy is officially all over the place. Just check out his endorsement of having the NX-01 perform a saucer separation. Good grief!
This is a prime example of a devoted Trek fan with extreme delusions of importance and the firm belief that he knows everything. Well, that's impossible! Not only is Star Trek still part of a business that's supposed to MAKE MONEY, but the writers do NOT produce the show simply to pander to our personal ideals. And even if the show did adhere to one person's idea of a good Trek show, it would probably be dismissed by a bunch of others as completely wrong.
"You can please all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."
It's even more galling to think that one of the reasons this guy is ripping into Enterprise is because he thinks that he's got a chance of writing a better television show (with the implication of having it produced in the real world). I used to think that way, a year or two ago. But after gaining a bit of writing experience of my own, I've realized that it's a damn difficult job. I may not agree with all of the decisions that B&B make, but at least the show they make is reasonably entertaining and has a fairly strong connection to the other Trek series (even if all of the continuity isn't perfect, the worst violations notwithstanding).
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: [QUOTE]I may not agree with all of the decisions that B&B make, but at least the show they make is reasonably entertaining and has a fairly strong connection to the other Trek series (even if all of the continuity isn't perfect, the worst violations notwithstanding).
Give me some examples of when they even tried to connect with TOS, B+B have nearly eliminated TOS altogether.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
He's definitely been watching too many Transformers episodes, MinutiaeMan. That saucer separation is mind-boggling, to say the least. In the process, something magical happens to the thingamabob suspended between the nacelles -- it disappears so that the catamarans can swing together. Plus, the only way to fit 80+ crew members in the "Enterprise warp ship" would be to borrow Voyager's shuttle storage technology.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
quote:Originally posted by Warbadden Hawkins: Give me some examples of when they even tried to connect with TOS, B+B have nearly eliminated TOS altogether.
lets see here, connections to TOS. the reintrocduction of TOS species like Andorians. the TOS style communicators. T'Pol's science station. Regulan Bloodworms. the saucer on the front of the NX-01. the Romulan ships looking similar to the RBoP. gun shaped hand weapons. vernacular speaking chief engineers. TOS warp scale.... i could go on for a while.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
quote:Give me some examples of when they even tried to connect with TOS, B+B have nearly eliminated TOS altogether.
Let's see, visits or mentions of the Andorian, Tellarites, and Coridians. A bridge that is a darker palette of colors from "The Cage." T'Pol's science station viewer. A launch bay that has to be depressurized and repressurized. Ladders with unexplained purposes in the middle of sets. A uniform branch color code that has Command Gold, Ships Services Red, and Sciences blue. Nacelles that, for the most part, match the original Enterprise's nacelles. A continuity with the early history of the Romulans that has thus far been maintained (other than the major foul-up of the cloaking devices). A honest-to-goodness communications officer that does something, is frequently afraid, and uses an earpiece. A weapons-firing procedure that, thus far, seems to resembles "The Balance of Terror"s procedure. An actual chef who may start screaming about his turkeys when Thanksgiving gets closer. Flip-out communicators and computer disks that are sized like 3.5 floppy disks.
That's just off of the top of my head.
That's not to say that Berman and Braga haven't screwed up in places, because we all know that they have. However, yes, there is a continuity between Enterprise and The Original Series.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
This is an idiot site. We are now all a little bit dumber for having viewed it. I reccommend that the site owner be fed to the targs, and the original poster be turned over to the Solanagen-based aliens for vivisection.
Be glad you caught me in a good mood.
Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :
... YHBT. HAND.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
You just get odder and odder, o' bearded one.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
Siegfried is my bitch because i beat him by a minute. now he can't make sweet love to my pumpkin.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Bah. I am no one's bitch. Except for Liam. Because he's dreamy.
Posted by Yamashiro Den (Member # 510) on :
walkter cronkite is dreamy too! and he's even old! a walking corpse!
Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :
-> "You have been trolled. Have a nice day."
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Ah. I thought you were warning him:
YHBT = You Have Been Told.
HAND = Cease, or I shall smite thee with my mighty HAND of Infinite Justice.
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
I agree with most of you here and with most of what you said, I still see more than just a "few" inconsistencies. I see one major "design" or "brainstorming" error real quick, and so did -Richard Whettestone- look here....
Enterprise NX-01 Akira Class
On the left we have a 250 year old spaceship Enterprise which doesn't have any phasers, shields or photon torpedoes, and can hardly meet Warp 4 without Captain Archer spending twenty minutes restraightening the picture frames.
On the right we have the advanced Federation starship Akira, equipped with modern up-to-date technology.
I see to many similarities for my liking. Really couldn't they have had some sort of fan design competition if they didn't have any ideas rarther than to just copy of a akira and give it a new paintjob.
Im not just sideing with -Richard Whettestone- ,look here, Daystrom Institute of TechnologyHe put "NX-CLASS" under the "other ships" link. Under his comments tab he says
"The centrepiece vessel of the Enterprise series, the NX class is unfortunately one of the most disappointing ship designs ever produced for Trek. When the idea of a prequel series was first mooted a few years ago, I was one of those who vehemently objected to it. The further back in time you go the more limited your technology becomes, and hence the more limited your scope for storytelling becomes. Given this, I felt that doing a prequel premise correctly would be a very difficult process which would require great attention to detail - something those in charge of Voyager were clearly unwilling or unable to give. Unfortunately, the design of Enterprise has already provided some justification for my concerns.
There has been, throughout all of Star Trek, a remarkably consistent trend in the look of the ships. Over the centuries they have become flatter, more streamlined and sleek-looking. Pick out any two ships designed in the same era and you will be able to pick out many very similar features, from the shape of the saucer section to the type of escape pod used.
Enterprise bucks this trend entirely. It was launched in 2151, after some 30 years of development. Take a look at the Daedalus class next to Enterprise and you will see what I mean. The Daedalus class was in service as of 2158, so if anything it is somewhat more advanced than Enterprise. Yet the two look nothing alike. Enterprise should either be a Daedalus class ship, or it should look something like a cross between a Daedalus and Valiant class, biased mostly towards the former. Yet only in the nacelles do we see anything even remotely suitable for this era.
Perhaps worse than the look of the ship are its capabilities. Warp 5 is just about right as the top speed for a ship of this period. But at this top speed, it should take Enterprise an average of eleven to fifteen days to get from one solar system to the next one over, and much longer to cross any significant distance. This could be accommodated by giving up on the 'one season = one year' concept which has been common to all Trek series since TNG. It would be relatively simple - have characters occasionally mention that weeks or months have passed between episodes, keeping track of when each episode is placed in the timeline so that references to visiting a planet "last year" were kept correct. The creators of Enterprise couldn't be bothered to pay this level of attention to detail of course, so the end result is that the Enterprise gets from place to place in an unfeasibly short time. As early as the pilot episode the ship reached Kronos in only four days, putting the Klingon homeworld only about one light year from Earth - the nearest star is over four light years away, and even this is far too close for the Klingon homeworld.
The ship's armament is also problematic. In the original series pilot episode "The Cage", the crew used hand weapons expressly described as lasers. It is not known if the ship's weapons at the time were lasers, although this seems likely. A few years later Starfleet changed over to phaser weapons for the regular series. In TNG's "A Matter of Time", Worf stated that there were no phasers in the 22nd century. Yet Enterprise has three 500 GigaJoule "phase cannon", and her crew carry "phase pistols". So now we are forced to believe that Starfleet gave up on these weapons and switched back to primitive lasers, then switched to phasers later on?
The ship's registry is shaky as well. The Voyager episode "Hope and Fear" featured a supposedly Federation ship named the USS Dauntless, NX-01-A. Although this ship turned out to be an alien fake, Janeway and her crew accepted the name and registry without any comment. Thus it stands that the original NX-01 was the USS Dauntless, not the USS Enterprise. Perhaps the numbering systems in use before the Federation was created were different, perhaps the NX/NCC system comes into use when the Federation is founded (which should be several years after Enterprise finishes). But if the creators wanted to use a different system, why then do they make it look identical to the existing one?
Some fans will say that only the few obsessives like me are concerned about such things, and to an extent they are right. But what on Earth is the point of doing a 'retro' series and promising the fans that we will see the exciting early days of star travel, only to then turn around and do everything exactly the same as you have been doing it all along?
I could think up fictional reasons to explain most of these problems and indeed some are covered elsewhere - most especially the speed issue, which is nothing new to Trek and is covered extensively in my "Warp Speed Anomalies" article. But quite frankly I can't be bothered. When I feel that people who care about the show they are making have made a genuine mistake because they are working under tremendous time and money pressures, I'll jump through hoops to try and explain things and have fun doing so. But when I feel that mistakes are being made because those in charge just couldn't care less about this aspect of their product and are largely contemptuous of those in their audience who do care, I see no reason to try and do their job for them.
Anyway, the basics of the NX class (and it is NX class, not Enterprise class) are as follows : she can do warp 5, but can only hold this for a matter of minutes; warp 4.5 - 4.7 is more comfortable for long term cruising. She carries three phase cannon which are rated at 500 Gigajoules, though they find a way to increase this tenfold in "Silent Enemy". They also have at least four forward facing torpedo tubes. The ship's hangar deck can hold four craft which enter through one of four separate hatches in the hull on the end of a docking arm. The ship normally carries only two shuttlepods. It has no shields, but the hull has "polarised armour", whatever that might be.
My rating of the weapons is currently rather above the stated 500 Gigajoules/5 Terajoules, for no particular reason other than to make the ship register on the lower end of my Ship Strength system."
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
Im not here to insult anyone by the way i just think that "ENTERPRISE" SUCKS ASS and was wondering if anyone else shares my opinion.
No offense to anyone, im sorta like that.
Posted by Magnus de Pym (Member # 239) on :
Annoying?
The NX/Akira comparison is refreshing with your new take on it. We probably haven't discussed it as much as we should.
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
Yes actually I think im partially retarded, Missing parts of my Cerebral Cortex and Dr. Crusher tried to replace it with positronic nerocores... arg my blarny head!
Posted by Yamashiro Den (Member # 510) on :
i didn't know you could get a core of Nero.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
You're argument is tired and based on the words of other people. A quick search through this forum will show you that you are about a year and a half too late for this argument. We've had before, and everything that could have possibly been said has been said and said again.
You think Enterprise isn't good? Fine, everyone's welcome to his or her opinions. I myself think that Enterprise is failing to meet its potential. I can tell you what's good and bad about Enterprise. So far, you've offered up a website that offers "reviews" of Enterprise from a person who 1) has a bizarre logic system, 2) really does not seem to know as much about Trek as one would hope, and 3) tries and fails to use comedy as a positive means of making his point.
Please try again in your own words.
Posted by Yamashiro Den (Member # 510) on :
or, don't try again. whatever you like. prerogative, and all that.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Warb, you're losing friends and supporters around here very quickly. If I were you, I'd lay low for awhile. Right now, you're the shining example of newbies that we've had here and have learned to view as annoying and perhaps hate.
Posted by Yamashiro Den (Member # 510) on :
actually, friends and supporters have to be earned, they aren't given away just for signing up, so i'm not convinced that he has any. hell, i still don't any.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
I'll be your friend. Provided I get a couple hours alone with your pumpkin.
Posted by Yamashiro Den (Member # 510) on :
in other news, the Giants just blew the fucking Angel's to Hell. down the the halo booyah!
Posted by Warbadden Hawkins (Member # 905) on :
sure at least now i have one friend..... and no pumpkin....
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I noticed the "First TV Drama" site some time ago (I think it was linked from Trektoday). While there are many valid points and a few good laughs, there is overall no consistency in the reviews themselves. No rules, no clear direction, no conclusions. The way they are done they could make fun of each and everything and are just not suited to specifically mock about Enterprise.
But the site is very mild compared to a *real hate site* which is unfortunately in German. That site is claiming to be satire. But actually it is using using the dirtiest possible language and the dullest adolescent arguments to butcher every aspect of Star Trek and specifically Enterprise. http://www.zynika.de/enterprise/index.php Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:real hate site
I know the guys who run this site for nearly 3 years and they like Star Trek (especially TNG). They've just a very weird way to show that.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
You call that "weird" that with every sentence they insult the people who are making the show and who are watching it? This has nothing to do with satire. If at all, it is the most primitive kind of intolerant and childish humor, with clear fascist tendencies. Its only purpose is to entertain dedicated Star Trek haters, and I despise them for that.
Posted by Free ThoughtCrime America (Member # 480) on :
Right ON!
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Flame on and take this to the Flameboard?
Unfortunately I will be gone for the next few days, so I couldn't take part in the debate. But there is indeed a parallel to M*** W*** who also claims that he likes Star Trek. Yes, and Osama bin Laden is a philanthrope.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Gee, exaggerating just a bit? "fascist...Osama Bin Laden..." Its a website people!
Not only do such comments belittle people that have to deal with the real thing out in this little thing we call "the real world", it reminds me of a quote, paraphrased loosely: "Americans are all in favour of free speech, until someone actually uses it."
Lets just say there are much bigger problems in this world to deal with than some attention craving adolescent running a website.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I have no problems with assholes like Wong or the people of st-enterprise, but with the people who listen to them. The stupid ones who just soak up their propaganda and cheer when others are insulted. But also the more intelligent ones who think they must defend their damn right of speech or even some of their ideas. The scale is different, but the symptom is the same as with political hate propaganda. I will never tolerate intolerance!
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
quote:I will never tolerate intolerance!
Doesn't that make you intolerant?
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
hypocritical to a degree...
But it is a good way to be in that particular case...
I, hell, anyone could rant like that for any show... and some would make more since....
plus his ideas seem pretty rough, it's gonna take a lot of show time to name everyone, which is where his 1,100 pages probably come from...
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Bernd, I agree with your views on the site and it's authors.
But there's one quote that had me ROFL: (Sorry that it's in German but for those who do understand: enjoy!)
quote: "Eben die typische Voyager-Logik, die wir seit Jahren kultisch verehren: Schiff kaputt? Die Decks 3 bis 5 treiben nach einem Kampf teilnahmslos im All? Kein Problem! - Der Uhu im Haus erspart den Zimmermann!
Vorbei die Zeiten, in denen nach w�sten Raumk�mpfen ein l�ngerer Aufenthalt in einer Raumstation angesagt war: Heute kittet Naomi Wildman H�llenbr�che mit Spucke, w�hrend die Badewanne des Captains zur neuen Warpgondel umgebaut wird... "
That was my feeling exactly during most part of Voyager's run.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The Babelfish liked that quote:
"Evenly the typical Voyager logic, which we admire for years ritually: Ship broken? Deck 3 to 5 float after a fight participateless in the universe? No problem! - the eagle owl in the house saves the Carpenter!
"Past the times, in which after wild space fights a longer stay was announced in a space station: Today Naomi Wildman cements covering breaks with spits, while the bath tub of the Captains is converted to the new Warpgondel..."
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
The Babelfish got its translator from the DS9 episode "Babel," right? Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
i remember the mostfun thing to do: take a passage of something, translate it to another language through babelfish and then switch it back andd see the nonsense.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: the eagle owl in the house saves the Carpenter!
Winner.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike XXIII: i remember the mostfun thing to do: take a passage of something, translate it to another language through babelfish and then switch it back andd see the nonsense.
No, it's not.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote: "Evenly the typical Voyager logic, which we admire for years ritually: Ship broken? Deck 3 to 5 float after a fight participateless in the universe? No problem! - the eagle owl in the house saves the Carpenter!
"Past the times, in which after wild space fights a longer stay was announced in a space station: Today Naomi Wildman cements covering breaks with spits, while the bath tub of the Captains is converted to the new Warpgondel..."
I remember that episode... now what was it called?
Enterprise NX-01 
Akira Class![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)