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What bloke invented signatures?
 

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"About as useful as a narcoleptic rickshaw driver."
-James Lileks
 

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"I'm doctor, not a dragonslayer."

 

Addendum: For some reason, when I view the list, it looks double-spaced. If it's like that for any of you, I'm afraid I don't know what the problem is, nor how to fix it...
Also, I forgot to mention, any discrepancies in the dates given in the TOS era are because I believe that TOS took place over the entire five-year mission, and I calculated the dates of the episodes accordingly.

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"About as useful as a narcoleptic rickshaw driver."
-James Lileks

[This message was edited by TSN on April 05, 1999.]
 

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"......"
�������������-The Breen at Internment Camp 371

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-=Ryan McReynolds=-

[This message was edited by Ryan McReynolds on April 06, 1999.]
 

text and pictures; http://www.cs.umanitoba.ca/~djc/startrek/ships.expanded.html

Text Only;
ftp://ftp.cc.umanitoba.ca/startrek/ships.expanded
 

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What bloke invented signatures?
 

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"The one, the only, THE 359!"

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Destruction Drone: "Throw down your weapons and I will spare your miserable lives!"
Rollbar: "That's the best offer we've had all day..."
 

And I also realized that I had a couple more missing that I'm adding in...

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"About as useful as a narcoleptic rickshaw driver."
-James Lileks
 

1-Your Ambassador Class USS Enterprise has no registry number next to it.

2-Can class ships (Ambassador, Andromeda, etc.) be listed in the registry as NX constantly since there is a possibility that the registry may change after the class is put into full production (example: USS Excelsior starting with NX-2000 then moving to NCC-2000).

3-Two Constitution Class ships named USS Constitution?

4-Your second Constitution Class USS Enterprise has no registry. Is this the NCC-1701-A on your list?

5-Where did you get your registry for the USS Danube? The NX-72003?

6-I see a trend. The Excelsior Class USS Enterprise has no registry next to it.

7-Same with the Galaxy Class USS Enterprise.

8-Where is the USS Trinculo, Galaxy Class, NCC-71867 from?

9-I thought we had a confirmation that the USS Lalo was destroyed by the Borg?

10-Do we have a confirmation on the USS City of New Orleans? The only place I have seen this name was on an early drawing of a Runabout in the Making of Deep Space Nine TPB.

11-Where is the USS Valiant, Oberth Class, NCC-20000 from?

12-The Sydney Class USS Nash has a registry number. If my memory serves its NCC-2010-5? I know its at least -something.

13-You have a USS Yamato NCC-1305 but no USS Yamato NCC-1305-E listed.

I hope that these help. With all this talk of ship lists I need to get mine dusted off and updated.

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-=/\=-
Captain Stark
http://members.aol.com/captaincks/readyroom.html

"The man on the top walks a lonely path. The chain of command is often a noose." Dr. Leonard McCoy --Obsession, Stardate: 3619.2

 

2-Well, the NX just lets us know that it's a class ship.

3-Another of TSN's wacky theories.

4-See #1

5-That's from the DS9 Tech Manual

6-You're catching on.

7-Yup.

8-A studio model...I don't think it's ever been on the show.

9-Maybe...I don't remember...

10-This is just TSN being stubborn.

11-Another model...it might have been the Oberth from Generations.

12-Well, the registry has never been on-screen.

13-Again, TSN's wacky theories.

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Destruction Drone: "Throw down your weapons and I will spare your miserable lives!"
Rollbar: "That's the best offer we've had all day..."
 

1, 4, 6, 7, & 13: We know (or can be relatively certain, given the evidence) that a ship is not named when it is first ordered to be built. However, I believe that the registry number is assigned at that time. So, every ship, including the Enterprises has a unique registry. My theory is that, when a ship is given a name that has been previously used, the commander is given the choice whether to use the real registry, or use a suffixed one. Since the original E was such a legendary ship, all the captains of the various starships Enterprise have used the suffixed registries. In the case of the Yamato, whoever was captain during "Where Silence Has Lease" used the suffixed registry (NCC-1305-E, as read by Riker), meaning that there was an original Yamato 1305, plus four others in between. By the time of "Contagion", a new captain (Donald Varley, IIRC) had taken command, and he preferred the real registry.
Anyway, my list only uses the real registries, which we don't have for the Es and Ys (because the writers know nothing of this theory), so I don't have them. You say the Yamato-E isn't listed, but it is. It's the last Yamato way down near the end of the list.

2: I realize that the registries can be changed, but I chose to only include the original (as cited in my previous answer).

3: "Wacky Theory Numeral Dos"... Since we have so many Const'n-class ships w/ registries less than 1700, the 1700 cannot be the class ship. I don't subscribe to the theory that those other ships were "changed" from one class to another at some point. Unless the classes were unreasonably similar, it wouldn't be worthwhile. And, if they were that much identical, I think it would be more of an upgrade than a class change. Therefore, I believe that there was a USS Constitution w/ a registry less than 956 (the Eagle's), which was destroyed or lost or something. The name was then reused on the 1700.

5: As Frank said, this was in the DS9TM.

8: As Frank also said, it was on a model used at conventions or something. I figured that makes it close enough to official, and it doesn't conflict w/ anything, so I might-as-well include it...

9: I'm not sure. I'd have to rewatch TBoBW. Since you ask, I guess I must have "disappeared 2366"? *doesn't feel like looking* If that's what I've got, I assume it's right, or I was misinformed somewhere along the line...

10: In the encyclopedias, there is a side-note that says the production guys named the New Orleans class after a ship they called the City of New Orleans. I decided to use it, even if it is an in-joke. The only thing it contradicts is Frank's unfounded notion that a class name must be invariable from the name of the class-ship.

11: Someone saw this on some sort of TV special about ILM. There was a shot of an Oberth model labelled thusly. The assumption is that, since ILM did Generations, this is probably how the model was labelled when it was used at the end of that movie.

12: There is a pic of the model as it was labelled before being labelled Jenolan (or however it was spelled on the model). It has the name Nash and the registry NCC-2010-B. Supposedly the name Nash is visible in "Trials and Tribble-ations", but not the registry. The problem w/ 2010-B is that 2010 was the Jenolan, so it can't be the registry of the Nash.

Does this help? :-)

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"About as useful as a narcoleptic rickshaw driver."
-James Lileks
 

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Destruction Drone: "Throw down your weapons and I will spare your miserable lives!"
Rollbar: "That's the best offer we've had all day..."
 

"Named for the ship we called the City of New Orleans."

As anyone familiar with American folk music knows, this is a reference to the Arlo Guthrie song about "a train we called the City of New Orleans." It is NOT meant to reveal the true name of the class ship. It IS meant to reveal something about Michael Okuda's musical tastes.

The problem is that TSN has built up his credibility to the point where people are beginning to believe him.

P.S. Good list, though.

P.P.S. I used to mistakenly credit that song to Bob Dylan. My apologies to folk fans.

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"And though I once prefered a human being's company, they pale before the monolith that towers over me."
--
They Might Be Giants

1, 4, 6, 7, & 13: Hmmm....Interesting. Since we base a lot of theories off of what we see in modern navies does this happen now? From the numerous non-cannon sources that I have been reading about, it seems that ships recive their names before they were built. Your theory would explain the two registries for the Yamato. However I seriously doubt that once a registry has been chosen, and commonly used, that Starfleet would allow it to be changed unless it was an unusual situation (like the Yorktown to the Enterprise-A in ST IV: TVH)

2: Only placing originial registries on your list is your choice. However I think it limits the list.

3: A plausable theory that I'll have to look into more. However if I recall Scotty's tech manual in The Trouble with Tribbles shows USS Constitution NCC-1700. If there was an older USS Constitution then it may have listed it's registry. Wish that TPTB had kept things a little more organized on the registry numbers. I could have easily accepted NCC-1710 for the USS Constellation.

5: Thanks for the info.

8: Interesting. Wasn't this the same case for the Ambassador Class USS Yamaguchi? Galen help me on this one I think I may have heard this from you.

9: I'll also double check this one. Since I asked I might as well help look up items.

10: Now that you mention this I'll have to think it over. On my list I have quite a few in-jokes listed even though they might be wacky (one Okudagram has a Captain Luke Skywalker on a diplomatic mission to Alderann that I ended up including on my list)

11: Does anyone know the name of this special? Or photos? I love photos to help me find more puzzle pieces to put into the mix.

12: Ah another YATI that made me cringe when I saw the photo in the magazine. Wish the person who was assigned to re-dress the model hadn't been that lazy on working over the registry. A non-cannon ship list had ships that had been renamed to a different name but kept the same registry (wish I was at home to give examples from some of these books). Perhaps Starfleet had another Sydney Class named USS Jenolan NCC-2010-A to honor the missing Montgomery Scott who was on the USS Jenolan. Then later someone at Starfleet realized that this was probably not the proper way to honor Mr Scott and thus had the ship renamed to the next name on the list which could have been the Nash. On ship lists it would have been listed as USS Nash (x-USS Jenolan) NCC-2010-A. Then something happened to the Nash-A that made Starfleet want to name another Sydney Class the USS Nash NCC-2010-B? I believe the encyclopedia mentiond that these types of ships were performing the same functions that the runabouts do now. And since we seem to go through runabouts like water sometimes, perhaps Sydney class ships have a very short lifespan but are easily replaceable. Whew, a streached theory but possible.

Bouncing the ball back out to the court.

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-=/\=-
Captain Stark
http://members.aol.com/captaincks/readyroom.html

"The man on the top walks a lonely path. The chain of command is often a noose." Dr. Leonard McCoy --Obsession, Stardate: 3619.2

 

3: Since many other registries (e.g. Oberth-Grissom, Prometheus) are also out of range, I prefer the solution that the regsitries do not necessarily reflect the precise age of the ship.

8: The Yamaguchi was in "The Emissary". Maybe the Trinculo was also on screen. Is the model depicted somewhere in the WWW?

9: As far as I remember the Lalo was already missing prior to Wolf 359, but most probably destroyed by the Borg.

12: I don't waste any time conceiving weird theories about the Nash's registry. I know it's inconsequential, but I ignore the registry, while I believe the name. It's worth mentioning that the model was completely relabelled, including the registry, and not simply a "B" added to it. This lets appear the modeler's job even worse.

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I know engineers - they love to change things. (McCoy, STTMP)
www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/
 

Or words to that effect, anyway.

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"And though I once prefered a human being's company, they pale before the monolith that towers over me."
--
They Might Be Giants

As for the City of New Orleans, why do you discount this in-joke, but not others? If we disregard it, we'd better also rename the Akira class, since it was named after an Anime movie. We'd better rename the Hideki, since it's a Cardassian ship named after a Japanese guy. (Well, that isn't really an in-joke, but it's close enough...)

And, as for the suffixed registries, according to my theory they aren't "real", so I don't include them. When/if I make a more detailed list, I'll probably include them.

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"About as useful as a narcoleptic rickshaw driver."
-James Lileks
 

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"And though I once prefered a human being's company, they pale before the monolith that towers over me."
--
They Might Be Giants

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Destruction Drone: "Throw down your weapons and I will spare your miserable lives!"
Rollbar: "That's the best offer we've had all day..."
 

I am with TSN on this one; for now, at least. While registries may not be exactly chronological in terms of class to class comparisons, I think it is reasonable to assume that a ship won't have a registry below that of her class ship.

Actually, this could result in a neat (or not-so-neat) integration of Tech Fandom with canon, for those interested in that stuff. It was largley a given that the Constitution-class began construction in the 2220s before the Okuda Chronology was published. It is possible that there was a 2220s batch of primitive Constitutions which included the Constitution (NCC-900, perhaps?), Eagle, Constellation, Republic, and a few others. The design proved successful, and in the 2240s a new batch was ordered, including a new Constitution and all of the 1600, 1700, and 1800 series Constitution-class ships. The older Eagle, Constellation, and Republic (the three remaining from the original batch) were upgraded to TOS-era tech. It doesn't account for all of Tech Fandom's ideas, but I think its kinda cool, nonetheless...

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-=Ryan McReynolds=-

 

What I'd like to know is, where the following ships were mentioned or seen, and if there's any other information known about them. . .

USS Galice
USS Billings
USS Destiny - yes, I know this is Ezri's old ship. . .
USS Helin
USS Hispaniola
USS Scovil
USS Sentinel - I remember THIS one. . .
USS Tombaugh
USS Truman
USS Veracruz
 

They're all listed on my Classless Ships page, BTW.

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."
 

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"I'm doctor, not a dragonslayer."

 

Sol: I'm not certain about Hideki, but I don't recall ever seeing or hearing the name Akira on screen...

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"About as useful as a narcoleptic rickshaw driver."
-James Lileks
 

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What bloke invented signatures?
 

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."
 

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"I KNOW I'm dense..."
-a certain anonymous administrator
 

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"Some people call me the Space Cowboy. Yeah! Some call me the Gangster of Love. Some people call me Maurice. Whoo hoo! 'Cause I speak of the Pompatus of Love!" - Steve Miller Band's The Joker
 

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What bloke invented signatures?
 

You can access my list here

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Starfleet Corps of Engineers-Spacecraft Division
www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9266

"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am."
-Darth Vader, Return of the Jedi
"Everything is proceeding as I have forseen."
-Emperor Palpatine, Return of the Jedi

Anyway, even if it is a valid name, why wouldn't City of New Orleans be? Apparently it was a valid enough name for a train...

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"I KNOW I'm dense..."
-a certain anonymous administrator
 

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"And though I once prefered a human being's company, they pale before the monolith that towers over me."
--
They Might Be Giants

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"I KNOW I'm dense..."
-a certain anonymous administrator
 

There's no reason to not believe this, so it must be true. :P

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."
 

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"I KNOW I'm dense..."
-a certain anonymous administrator

[This message was edited by TSN on April 11, 1999.]
 

Same to you.

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."
 

Here's the link again, so you don't have to scroll back up to the top...

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"I KNOW I'm dense..."
-a certain anonymous administrator
 

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Remember when we used to be explorers? - Capt. Jean-Luc Picard - Star Trek Insurrection

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"Victory is Life!"

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Robot: "Hey, I'm stuck up here!"
Cyclonus: "Everybody's got to be somewhere."
 

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Starfleet Corps of Engineers-Spacecraft Division
www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9266

"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am."
-Darth Vader, Return of the Jedi
"Everything is proceeding as I have forseen."
-Emperor Palpatine, Return of the Jedi

[This message was edited by Fabrux on April 12, 1999.]
 

And, for that matter, I can't imagine that the Bozeman was missing for 90 years, and SF never reused the name...

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"I KNOW I'm dense..."
-a certain anonymous administrator
 

Now, as for needed another Bozeman, I think its foolish. The Bozeman isn't very old, all she would need was a refit. That would just take a year. Now, as for Bozeman's age, if my list of launch dates for ship is correct or close to correct, the USS Bozeman was launched in 2266. She was lost in 2278. That's 12 years. Now, she never aged in the timeloop, since the time was constantly repeated. Well, she was found in 2368. If she's still in service today, that's 2368 - 2375, or 7 years. That means Bozeman is only 19 years old, or somewhere around there. That ain't bad, really

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"The one, the only, THE 359!"

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What bloke invented signatures?
 

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http://frankg.dgne.com/
Megatron: "Waspinator, salvage Inferno."
Waspinator: "Inferno blow up, Waspinator must salvage. Waspinator blow up, nobody salvage. Why universe hate Waspinator?"
 

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Starfleet Corps of Engineers-Spacecraft Division
www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9266

"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am."
-Darth Vader, Return of the Jedi
"Everything is proceeding as I have forseen."
-Emperor Palpatine, Return of the Jedi
 

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"I KNOW I'm dense..."
-a certain anonymous administrator
 

We know that the Soyuz class was rather odd looking. We know that it is different enough from the Miranda to get its own class name, but we never really find out why. The DS9 tech. manual suggests that phaser strips were first tested on Soyuz class starships. I contend that the Soyuz class was a testbed for new technologies. Based on readily available Miranda hulls, the ships were grabbed during early phases of production to be used in experiments.

I would further suggest that the Soyuz was only meant as a stopgap measure, until a better design presented itself. Upon the construction of that new class, the Soyuz class was retired. That doesn't necessarily mean all Soyuz ships immediately were taken out of service, though they may have been removed from active service. Some, as Frank suggests, could have been recommissioned as Mirandas. Others might have just been pushed out as is, or given to various civilian agencies. Some would have no doubt remained in the hands of ship designers.

I'm reasonably sure that would cover everything we know about the class. Anything I missed?

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"And though I once prefered a human being's company, they pale before the monolith that towers over me."
--
They Might Be Giants