And Voyager was supposed to have carried another core in the forward part of the engineering hull, but it was never mentioned on-screen. It came from a look at the model of Voyager (the official one) in Star Trek: The Magazine, I believe. The model guy who did the interview (forgot who) said it wasn't a "plug and play" core, but rather an auxiliary one, if that makes any sense, and was never online.
[ July 07, 2001: Message edited by: Delta Vega ]
Well, first of all, we have basically no friggin' clue as to how may years the Ent-A was in service while she was still the Yorktown. But even if it did appear that Starfleet was decommissioning the class in STVI, that doesn't rule out the possibility of later re-commissioning it.
The "Relics" line is easy to explain in that it was probably, as many have proposed, referring to the unrefitted configuration, which would be archaic indeed.
In contrast, we have quite a bit more evidence of them still being in service:
a.) Stargazer was originally to be a Connie.
b.) Constitution wreck seen at Wolf 359 graveyard. (Constitution prototypes were also probably there.)
c.) The U.S.S. Republic from "Valiant" (DS9) is very probably the same Connie from Kirk's cadet days. (As indicated by the writer of the episode and the Encyclopedia.)
d.) The appearance of a Constitution-class variant in DS9 "A Time to Stand" and in the Technical manual. (Along with two other ships which were 'kitbashed' with Connie parts.)
e.)Just the plain fact that Excelsiors, Mirandas, Oberths, Constellations, etc. (virtually all the Connie's contemporaries except the Soyuz) are still in widespread use.
e.) I hope, the U.S.S. Olympia. 
So, I say Connies may very well still be in use. In any case, I'd like to try to get confirmation of whether or not it was the destroyed Enterprise model that was used for the O.
[ July 07, 2001: Message edited by: J ]
That's also why it's the only six-nacelled ship we've ever seen.
Don't get me wrong, I'd have no problem with them being still in service, and although I suggested they've been 'long decommissioned', I don't totally and completely dismiss the idea, but I still have doubts. But to respond accordingly to your points....
"a.) Stargazer was originally to be a Connie."
-But it wasn't in the end as it was deemed too convenient and implausible, so a new class model was constructed. So it doesn't really have any bearing on this debate.
"b.) Constitution wreck seen at Wolf 359 graveyard. (Constitution prototypes were also probably there.)"
-The wreck you speak of was only a Constitution secondary hull. A Constitution-style saucer has also been spotted, but associated with another wreck. This is though good evidence that Constitutions could still be in some kind of active service (or did up until the Wolf 359 battle) :-)
"c.) The U.S.S. Republic from "Valiant" (DS9) is very probably the same Connie from Kirk's cadet days. (As indicated by the writer of the episode and the Encyclopedia.)"
-I've always assumed it to be another ship, as a ship of probably 120 years plus being used as a supposedly hi-tech, cutting edge training ship a little implausible. But again, not out of the question, after all it depends on the nature of the training it was intended for.
".) The appearance of a Constitution-class variant in DS9 "A Time to Stand" and in the Technical manual. (Along with two other ships which were 'kitbashed' with Connie parts.)"
-Which variant is this? These 'A Time to Stand' pics are in the other thread, and I have identified no variant, at least not in any clear sense. It could be way out of view in the background somewhere. But a Connie variant doesn't constitute (no pun intended) the existence of present day Constitutions.
"e.)Just the plain fact that Excelsiors, Mirandas, Oberths, Constellations, etc. (virtually all the Connie's contemporaries except the Soyuz) are still in widespread use."
-With the exception of the Oberths (possibly), the ohter ships here come somewhere between twenty and forty years after Constitution first launched.
"e.) I hope, the U.S.S. Olympia."
-It would be nice to know for sure. I would get no greater thrill than to see an enhanced, brought-up-to-date Constitution in the field...!
One good reason why I would need strong convincing is the general age of the Constitution class. Present day (24th century) starships are built with a life span expectancy of about 100 years. This wasn't so in the 23rd century. The Enterprise was 40 years old by STIII, and was deemed too old to continue in service, so its decommissioning was suggested.
This was also one of the first batch Connies, so in my estimation, NO first batch Connies can possibly be still in service. I think most of us would agree on that. If they only had a maximum fifty year life expentency in the 23rd century, nothing would change this until perhaps ANOTHER batch production was implemented... This is the only other possibility, and is why the Constellations, Mirandas and Excelsiors have gone on so long, because they've been constucted for so long in multiple batches.
This is I believe one theory that supports the possibility that good ole Connie could, in some form, be still running around out there.... But again I would love some precise proof. But it could be hard to find as this theory itself is hindered by the general failure of the Enterprise-A/Yorktown refit, unless of course a brand new specification was implemented some time afterwards to completely rebuild and re-commission a new Constituion style variant...
[ July 07, 2001: Message edited by: The Red Admiral ]
2. The 359 wreck is obviously a Connie.
3. The writer of the show said he intended it to be the connie. Encyc implies such. It wasn't supposed to be a high tech cutting edge type of deal. It was an archaic vessel which hadn't left the solar system in decades. I thought that was the whole point, comparing it to the Valiant which was a much more effective training ship.
4. The one from the Tech Manual with no engineering hull. Also, the Curry and the Voyager-prototype are Excelsior/Constitution- and Intrepid/Constitution-class starship variants.
5. Okay, but how much of a difference is twenty years in the grand scheme of things... 
6. Me, too.
There's a Constitution-style secondary hull, and a Constitution-style primary hull. You assert that the two nacelles + saucer ship in the DS9TM is real. How do you know the saucer at W359 wasn't from one of those? How do you know the secondary hull wasn't from some other ship that uses it? That wreckage was no more "obviously a Connie" than the nacelle at the top of the viewscreen in TBoBW was "obviously" as Galaxy (as we know it was, in fact, a Niagara).
"4. The one from the Tech Manual with no engineering hull. Also, the Curry and the Voyager-prototype are Excelsior/Constitution- and Intrepid/Constitution-class starship variants."
The Curry was an Excelsior/Miranda combination. And you yourself have said you think the "Intrepid/Constitution" was the Voyager prototype. I'm pretty sure that ship actually had custom nacelles, not the Connie ones seen in the TM.
1. We know that the model was the Constitution! I don't make up stuff for onscreen. That was the refit Constitution model that was on the screen. Because we know that, we know it was a Connie.
2. I am using the official, canon (for now) designations for the Curry and the Voyager, which are "Excelsior/Constitution-Class Starship Variant" and "Intrepid/Constitution-Class Starship Variant" respectively. And Okuda confirmed that all models from the DS9 Technical Manual were used in the show, albeit somewhere waaaay in the background where we can't see them clearly.
P.S.
Sorry to be so confrontational, TSN.
What can I say? I'm a Trekkie.
No hard feelings.
One of the puzzling aspects of the show is that we don't see the crew of the U.S.S. Defiant talking about the U.S.S. Olympia's background. Of course, if they did this, the story would be over before it began for the crew would realized that that the other ship disappeared three years before and that the possibility of survivors is zilch.
On the whole, I have to agree with TSN, we have no concrete proof either way what class any of these were.
I think it might be the front part of an oberth's starboard nacelle.
The wreckage in "BoBW" included a 'distressed' Constitution-refit secondary hull and nacelles in one shot and the self-destructed Enterprise saucer from TSfS in a shot shortly after. It has been generally assumed that this was a decommissioned Constitution-refit pressed into service to defend Earth from the Borg.
The Republic was never even hinted to be Constitution-class in the one episode in which it was mentioned in TOS. Despite the overwhelming opinion of fandom and Okuda, I disbelieve in it being Constitution-class.
Which brings me to the whole training ship debate. The U.S. Coast Guard maintains the sailing ship Eagle to train cadets and enlisted personnel. The ship is not intended to give them hands-on experience with cutting-edge technology or the like -- that's what the classrooms are for. The Eagle is solely about teaching teamwork. responsibility, and leadership.
What did I forget...?
--Jonah
Now, what else did I forget...?
--Jonah
I always took Picard's line in "Relics" to indicate the original-config Constitution as well. In fact, some sources go so far as to make it the old U.S.S. Potemkin. I approve.
And as for the Stargazer, Rick Sternbach did full-on blueprints based off the desk model he built for Picard's ready room, which Greg Jein then built. Notice the episode before "The Battle", that model was replaced with a plain ol' Constitution-refit.
Now, have I forgotten anything else?
--Jonah
