posted
Since the wreckage of the Olympia from DS9 "The Sound of Her Voice" was the constitution refit model destroyed in STIII and later used in TNG "Best of Both Worlds" can we call it a Constitution-class vessel?
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
As I recall, all we saw was an unidentifiable chunk of wreckage and a bit of a Constitution nacelle. Some have speculated that the ship might have been a Constellation, since the nacelles are the same, and it's been theorized/assumed that the Constellation's four nacelle setup facilitates deep space missions. (At least, the only Constellation whose assignment we know anything about, the Stargazer, was on a deep space mission.)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
That theory also comes from the idea that there's a warp core for each pair of nacelles. Therefore, they can be run at higher speeds for longer times, because one core can rest while the other is running.
Registered: Mar 1999
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USSdefiant
Ex-Member
posted
Ummm, I am fairly sure that every cannon drawing of the internal designs of ships have only had 1 warp core. Also, if you look at the size of the core in voyager and how it was ejected multiple times, you can pretty much conclude that there is only 1. Where did you hear the theory that there is 1 core per nacelle?
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Um, just to interject, I don't we've seen any canonical internal arrangment of the Constellation. And how is what the Intrepid does relevant?
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
The basic bottom line has to say that it can't be a Constitution class ship. They have long, LONG since been decommissioned. We've had a number of allusions to verify this. But other than the Constellation possibilities, the Miranda variants also use similar type nacelles.
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
posted
Well, we can't say for sure the (Refit) Constiution class has been retired from service. By the same token of time, the Miranda should be long gone. A few (Refit) Constitutions may have been refitted for light deep space exploration vehicles, leaving just the hull the same and gutting the interior to add new systems, etc.
And Voyager was supposed to have carried another core in the forward part of the engineering hull, but it was never mentioned on-screen. It came from a look at the model of Voyager (the official one) in Star Trek: The Magazine, I believe. The model guy who did the interview (forgot who) said it wasn't a "plug and play" core, but rather an auxiliary one, if that makes any sense, and was never online.
[ July 07, 2001: Message edited by: Delta Vega ]
-------------------- "Sometimes I think I might like to be evil and all, but that's not the way to think, 'ya know?" -AA, from IRC on March 3rd, 2001
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I'm not even gonna touch the whole Constitution decommission debate. Wait a minute yes I will. Now, what are these allusions you speak of? All I know of is a.) The Enterprise-A was being decommissioned in STVI, after only some few years in service, b.) Picard in "Relics" (TNG) says there's one in the Fleet Museum.
Well, first of all, we have basically no friggin' clue as to how may years the Ent-A was in service while she was still the Yorktown. But even if it did appear that Starfleet was decommissioning the class in STVI, that doesn't rule out the possibility of later re-commissioning it.
The "Relics" line is easy to explain in that it was probably, as many have proposed, referring to the unrefitted configuration, which would be archaic indeed.
In contrast, we have quite a bit more evidence of them still being in service: a.) Stargazer was originally to be a Connie. b.) Constitution wreck seen at Wolf 359 graveyard. (Constitution prototypes were also probably there.) c.) The U.S.S. Republic from "Valiant" (DS9) is very probably the same Connie from Kirk's cadet days. (As indicated by the writer of the episode and the Encyclopedia.) d.) The appearance of a Constitution-class variant in DS9 "A Time to Stand" and in the Technical manual. (Along with two other ships which were 'kitbashed' with Connie parts.) e.)Just the plain fact that Excelsiors, Mirandas, Oberths, Constellations, etc. (virtually all the Connie's contemporaries except the Soyuz) are still in widespread use. e.) I hope, the U.S.S. Olympia.
So, I say Connies may very well still be in use. In any case, I'd like to try to get confirmation of whether or not it was the destroyed Enterprise model that was used for the O.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
posted
Voyager had a spare warp core. But don't forget about the Prometheus, it had multiple warp cores --one-- for each section.
[ July 07, 2001: Message edited by: J ]
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
I would require direct convincing for me to accept that any Constitutions are still active. When I think of Picard's line in 'Relics', I find it illogical that he would mention the fact that 'one was in the fleet museum' first off, and quite matter of factly, and that he then didn't go on to say there were any others, in service or not.
Don't get me wrong, I'd have no problem with them being still in service, and although I suggested they've been 'long decommissioned', I don't totally and completely dismiss the idea, but I still have doubts. But to respond accordingly to your points....
"a.) Stargazer was originally to be a Connie."
-But it wasn't in the end as it was deemed too convenient and implausible, so a new class model was constructed. So it doesn't really have any bearing on this debate.
"b.) Constitution wreck seen at Wolf 359 graveyard. (Constitution prototypes were also probably there.)"
-The wreck you speak of was only a Constitution secondary hull. A Constitution-style saucer has also been spotted, but associated with another wreck. This is though good evidence that Constitutions could still be in some kind of active service (or did up until the Wolf 359 battle) :-)
"c.) The U.S.S. Republic from "Valiant" (DS9) is very probably the same Connie from Kirk's cadet days. (As indicated by the writer of the episode and the Encyclopedia.)"
-I've always assumed it to be another ship, as a ship of probably 120 years plus being used as a supposedly hi-tech, cutting edge training ship a little implausible. But again, not out of the question, after all it depends on the nature of the training it was intended for.
".) The appearance of a Constitution-class variant in DS9 "A Time to Stand" and in the Technical manual. (Along with two other ships which were 'kitbashed' with Connie parts.)"
-Which variant is this? These 'A Time to Stand' pics are in the other thread, and I have identified no variant, at least not in any clear sense. It could be way out of view in the background somewhere. But a Connie variant doesn't constitute (no pun intended) the existence of present day Constitutions.
"e.)Just the plain fact that Excelsiors, Mirandas, Oberths, Constellations, etc. (virtually all the Connie's contemporaries except the Soyuz) are still in widespread use."
-With the exception of the Oberths (possibly), the ohter ships here come somewhere between twenty and forty years after Constitution first launched.
"e.) I hope, the U.S.S. Olympia."
-It would be nice to know for sure. I would get no greater thrill than to see an enhanced, brought-up-to-date Constitution in the field...!
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
One good reason why I would need strong convincing is the general age of the Constitution class. Present day (24th century) starships are built with a life span expectancy of about 100 years. This wasn't so in the 23rd century. The Enterprise was 40 years old by STIII, and was deemed too old to continue in service, so its decommissioning was suggested.
This was also one of the first batch Connies, so in my estimation, NO first batch Connies can possibly be still in service. I think most of us would agree on that. If they only had a maximum fifty year life expentency in the 23rd century, nothing would change this until perhaps ANOTHER batch production was implemented... This is the only other possibility, and is why the Constellations, Mirandas and Excelsiors have gone on so long, because they've been constucted for so long in multiple batches.
This is I believe one theory that supports the possibility that good ole Connie could, in some form, be still running around out there.... But again I would love some precise proof. But it could be hard to find as this theory itself is hindered by the general failure of the Enterprise-A/Yorktown refit, unless of course a brand new specification was implemented some time afterwards to completely rebuild and re-commission a new Constituion style variant...
[ July 07, 2001: Message edited by: The Red Admiral ]
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
posted
1. I thought they planned to use the connie all the way through, but at the last minute Greg Jein said "no you're not" and produced a home-built model which was substituted.
2. The 359 wreck is obviously a Connie.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
posted
Damn it, I keep hitting that figgin' button before I'm friggin' done...
3. The writer of the show said he intended it to be the connie. Encyc implies such. It wasn't supposed to be a high tech cutting edge type of deal. It was an archaic vessel which hadn't left the solar system in decades. I thought that was the whole point, comparing it to the Valiant which was a much more effective training ship.
4. The one from the Tech Manual with no engineering hull. Also, the Curry and the Voyager-prototype are Excelsior/Constitution- and Intrepid/Constitution-class starship variants.
5. Okay, but how much of a difference is twenty years in the grand scheme of things...
6. Me, too.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
There's a Constitution-style secondary hull, and a Constitution-style primary hull. You assert that the two nacelles + saucer ship in the DS9TM is real. How do you know the saucer at W359 wasn't from one of those? How do you know the secondary hull wasn't from some other ship that uses it? That wreckage was no more "obviously a Connie" than the nacelle at the top of the viewscreen in TBoBW was "obviously" as Galaxy (as we know it was, in fact, a Niagara).
"4. The one from the Tech Manual with no engineering hull. Also, the Curry and the Voyager-prototype are Excelsior/Constitution- and Intrepid/Constitution-class starship variants."
The Curry was an Excelsior/Miranda combination. And you yourself have said you think the "Intrepid/Constitution" was the Voyager prototype. I'm pretty sure that ship actually had custom nacelles, not the Connie ones seen in the TM.
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