Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
I recently saw an ad for the Union of Toronto's Transit system. It had specified two cases where two employees were terminated for wrongful reasons. One of them was fired since she could not come back to full time work after an accident on the job. The other had a disorder which required medication which made her unable to go to work. In both cases, the union filed appeals on behalf of these employees, and won lawsuits for both of them. Each one won about $100,000 in legal fees, wages, punitive damages, etc, and also got their jobs back. The Union ad then goes on to say that the Transit Commission has wasted about $15 million in lawsuits related to unjustifiable dismissals.
Regarding the second case, the Union makes mention of an error in reporting the woman's case (they had previously stated that it was Cancer). The Union then goes on to say that when they are wrong, they admit it, while the Toronto Transit Commission is the exact opposite.
So what is the point of the Union's campaign? That the TTC stop wrongful firings? I don't think so. The TTC is a large organization with a large number of employees and as any other company will do, it will try to weed out those unsuited for duty. Like any corporation, private or public, the TTC may get the innocent employee. The Union also questions why the TTC challenges these lawsuits, but doesn't take into account that a good portion of most wrongful firings are due to bias of a superior, and the superior will usually twist the circumstances.
So if we were to stop challenging lawsuits from terminations, then anyone who was fired, justified or not, can simply get their job back. To make the picture a lot bigger, this hampers the ability for the TTC to terminate the true "unwanted" employees, such as those with constant absenteeism, harassment, incompetence, etc. So now, the TTC cannot get rid of these employees either, service suffers, TTC pays for the bad employees, and in turn is now an organization that can be taken advantage of. I don't know about you, but I think this is a bigger threat than the $15 million mentioned by the Union.
Oh, BTW, since when did the Union start counting lawsuits?
One of the reasons why 1) I hate unions, 2) why they have too much power and 3) why I would welcome any legislation that will limit a Union's influence (they should go back to the basics).
What think you?
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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Mountain Man
Ex-Member
posted
No body is always right.There are a lot of things about this type of termination to consider.One is whether or not being fired in this manner cuts the employee off from needed medical benefits.Another is the fact that they may now be able to retire for medical reasons and not be scewed out of their pension plan.I know nothing about the organisations involved but I have seen people lose out on a great deal of money that they had invested in insurance and pension plans because of just this sort of thing.Being unable to work is not the same as having done something wrong.It's all about Insurance when it comes right down to it.P.S.just how much of that 100k do you think the employees will ever see?
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-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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"One of them was fired since she could not come back to full time work after an accident on the job."
So, what did she want? To be paid by the company to sit on her ass all day and not work for them? Where's the form I have to sign to get that deal?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
If she recieved a permanant injury on the job, then that's exactly what she's supposed to recieve. That's what Workman's Com insurance is for.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Just imagine driving a bus on a normal day when some wacko speeding dude hits your bus. Not on any part of the bus, but in the driver's area where you are sitting. Tell me that does not qualify as a job-related injury that should be covered by law.
One other thing, I wonder if the union is taking to account that the TTC, along with other companies, subscribes to insurance that covers them for lawsuits and other related legal items.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I've always felt that the majority of the unions out there today are basically a bunch of extortionists. They most certainly served their purpose fifty years ago, and even today still do some good in certain cases.
But from everything I've read in the news over the past five years, the majority of the unions are only making "good" actions when they're protecting individuals -- like the example of the woman who was injured on the job, then fired. But demanding exorbitant pay raises and all sorts of other stuff -- not to mention causing massive disruptions to commerce (like airlines or UPS or the NYC transit workers) that are rarely necessary.
I'm not saying that the workers don't have a point -- they do, and I agree that everyone needs to have more recognition from the corporate elite, especially in the big businesses. But given the increasing interconnectivity of the world, there's the potential for so much more disruption that is not justified by the kind of grievances they're fighting to have addressed.
Every weekday afternoon I happen to be driving home from Newark, I pass the Chrysler plant on S. College Avenue. At one of the main entrances, there's a small group always set up -- with a tarp tent and classic red signs -- always sitting around, "protesting." I have no idea what they're protesting because I always drive by too quick to look. I think they might be Teamsters, but I'm not certain. Seeing those people in the same place day in, day out for months on end makes me think of them much more as simple deadbeats, or a lame group rotating people around desperate for attention.
After all our progress, is this what Western businesses (not just American) has come to?
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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"If she recieved a permanant injury on the job, then that's exactly what she's supposed to recieve. That's what Workman's Com insurance is for."
Well, I didn't say she shouldn't get a workman's comp. settlement. But she shouldn't still have a job, if she isn't actually doing that job. If it was the company's fault that she got hurt, then, fine, they should make amends for that. But, if it wasn't (and I'm sure that's the case in many of these sorts for incidents), people should start accepting that sometimes bad things happen, and bad luck doesn't automatically entitle you to special treatment.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Unless, of course, you have insurance, in which case you are paying so that you will get special treatment in case of bad luck.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Well, I didn't say she shouldn't get a workman's comp. settlement. But she shouldn't still have a job, if she isn't actually doing that job. If it was the company's fault that she got hurt, then, fine, they should make amends for that. But, if it wasn't (and I'm sure that's the case in many of these sorts for incidents), people should start accepting that sometimes bad things happen, and bad luck doesn't automatically entitle you to special treatment.
I forgot to mention that she was slowly starting to go back to work as full-time when she was terminated.
I really don't mind where unions fight in these circumstances. It's necessary, to prevent the exploitation of employees. But there are many instances where I draw the line, such as: - Garbagemen being paid the same wages as Computer Programmers, - Unions complaining about them being the only "right" entity in the corporate world, - Unions saying that this company or that entity exists because of them, that everything is done right because of them, and they are critical to our everyday lives. Bullshit Narcissism all the way.
The one thing I actually supported the Provincial Conservative government of doing is proposing legislation that would take off some of the teeth that the Unions have. Many companies complain that they would like to do business here, if only the unions didn't have that much power. There would be many benefits for legislation that would limit the powers of any Union. Too bad the Conservatives don't have the guts to pull it off, and it's a shame the Unions don't see why it needs to be done (all they ever do these days is complain, complain, complain....).
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Perhaps more amusing is the Catholic school teachers who are about to go on strike in Philadelphia. It seems every year there's some group of teachers who f*ck up the academic schedules for kids somewhere... Even more than the economical issues that I talked about earlier in this thread would apply evern more to the education of children...
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Well, teachers really don't get paid enough, anyway...
As for the woman who was fired: If she was going back to work, that makes a big difference. I was working on the assumption that she would never be able to work there again, but still wanted to keep the job without actually performing it.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Of course that's what they say.
The ones who do believe that Teachers are overpaid want the best bang for their buck, in other words, only the best. That's why they are in favour of testing Teachers in order to recertify them.
Me? I won't say whether Teachers are overpaid, but I am in favour of having them retested. Simply because if and when I obtain Oracle Certification, I have to take tests every five years to ensure I remain certified. Any professional occupation should be professionally tested.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Oh, I *know* that many teachers are underpaid, and have legitimate grievances. I went to Catholic schools most of my life. My high school was incredibly expensive, but I know of five or six teachers (all of them extremely popular) who had to get jobs in public schools because the current pay sucked. All within a four-year period while I was there.
I just think that there are certain jobs where strikes should be completely out of the question, for the sake of children's education.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Saltah'na: But there are many instances where I draw the line, such as: - Garbagemen being paid the same wages as Computer Programmers,
Didn't this come up before? And wasn't it pointed out that society would cope better with less computer programmers than less garbagemen?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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