posted
Came across these in my Brit-Lit class during a discussion of Paradise Lost, of all things.
quote:"The Authority, God, the Creator, the Lord, Yahweh, El, Adonai, the King, the Father, the Almighty - those were names he gave himself. He was never the creator. He was an angel like ourselves -- the first angel, true, the most powerful, but he was formed of Dust as we are, and Dust is only a name for what happens when matter begans to understand itself. Matter loves matter. It seeks to know more about itself, and Dust is formed. The first angels condensed out of Dust, and the Authority was the first of all. He told those who came after him that he had created them, but it was a lie. One of those who came later was wiser then he was, and she found out the truth, so he banished her. We serve her still. And the Authority reigns in the Kingdom, and Metatron is his Regent." - The Angel Balthamos
quote:"Well where is God, if he's alive? And why doesn't he speak anymore? At the beginning of the world, God walked in the Garden and spoke with Adam and Eve. Then he began to withdraw, and he forbade Moses to look at his face. Later, in the time of Daniel, was was aged -- he was the Ancient of Days. Where is he now? Is he still alive, at some inconceivable age, decrepit and demented, unable to think or act or speak and unable to die, a rotten hulk? And if that is his condition, wouldn't it be the most merciful thing, the truest proof of our love for God, to seek him out and give him the gift of death?" - Mrs. Coulter
"Towing Jehovah" "Blameless in Abbadon," and "The Eternal Footman" -- James Morrow (the middle one, with God on trial for Crimes Against Humanity is the best, and could be read as a stand-alone)
"Bible Stories for Adults" -- also by James Morrow
"JOB: a Comedy of Justice" -- Robert Heinlein
Another Good quote from a Heinlein book ("Time Enough for Love," I think)
"The sillest notion H. Sapiens has ever come up with is that the Lord God, Maker and Shaper of All the Universes, desires the saccharine adoration of his creations, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not receive this flattery. The second most preposterous notion is that copulation is inherently sinful."
[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: First of Two ]
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
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quote: Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
quote:Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
And unlike Job, who wimps out, First of Two answers:
"What kind of a cop-out is that? What, I'm expected to demur because you're OLDER? What kind of reasoning is that? I ASKED you why you let bad things happen to decent, innocent people, and you ask me where I was when you made the world? You didn't give me much of a voice in THAT, did you? Where was your vaunted Free Will then, you cosmic bozo!"
Whereupon First is zapped by lightning for daring to make a valid point.
[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: First of Two ]
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
Don't ask Him what he needs with a starship either.
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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I gotta hand it to ourselves (I'm referring to humanity as a whole), we're pretty imaginative. We have had some pretty weird collective ideas these last ten millenia, but none quite so... self-delusional, indoctrinating, mass-psychotic, and downright preposterous as our belief in "gods" (plural form intentional).
[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: Mojo Jojo ]
"When Bad Christians Happen to Good People" by Dave Burchett -- $11.95 in paperback. Looks like a good read.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
posted
And of course, one could make the argument that the only reason First of Two is talking back is because he knows no-one is actually going to argue with him, and, if they did, he would shit his pants.
The thing that most annoys me about stuff like this is that certain non-believers are so unbearable smug in their "look at the pathetic people believing in a god! Ha ha! We are better". It's just as bad as the unbearable smugness of the "I don't question God, and you're going to hell" brigade.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
posted
An interesting followup from the same book, by God: "Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee."
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quote:And of course, one could make the argument that the only reason First of Two is talking back is because he knows no-one is actually going to argue with him, and, if they did, he would shit his pants.
Cute. Wrong, but cute.
I have, in the past, and will no doubt continue to, stand up to people who are much more powerful than myself, from bullies in elementary school to the 6'4, 250+# guy who threatened one of my female friends with a baseball bat. (I took quite a pounding, but I stopped him.)
I say it's because I have a well-developed sense of justice... but it may just be not knowing when to keep my mouth shut. In any case, it's an ingrained personality trait, and I don't suspect it would be any different if my bully were a Deity... except for that bit about the lightning bolt, which, if it happened, would only prove me right.
Perhaps I believe in the Phyrric victory... that's my perogative.
There's a lesson to be learned from the passengers on that airliner that went down in my state on 9/11... Fight anyway.
[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: First of Two ]
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
Hey, I wasn't being smug, just mildly sarcastic... mankind created gods, not the other way around.
*Wonders if large personal disclaimer should be included here*
[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: Mojo Jojo ]
-------------------- ".mirrorS arE morE fuN thaN televisioN" - TEH PNIK FLAMIGNO
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posted
I say it's because I have a well-developed sense of justice... but it may just be not knowing when to keep my mouth shut.
There's a difference?
You know, this is all in your perspective. You see life as being all hunky-dory, and the bad things that happen are the exception. But that's not how God sees it. We were all damned to begin with (thank you, Eve), and the bad things that happen to us are the natural course of things. Consider yourself lucky that good happens AT ALL, and that you have any chance at avoiding Hell.
It's the difference between focusing on the good and focusing on the bad; between happiness and depression. If you see life itself is a blessing, as I do, what have you to complain about? If you think you DESERVE life, for whatever reason you can come up with, then you have EVERYTHING to complain about. It's in the most basic, ancient difference in worldviews: pride vs. humility. Or, put another way, "Who will you serve?"
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
posted
"If you see life itself is a blessing, as I do, what have you to complain about? If you think you DESERVE life, for whatever reason you can come up with, then you have EVERYTHING to complain about."
Before I go and punch myself in the face, I would like to congratulate Omega for making me think about something in a new way. Well done.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
That's a reasonable deity for ya'. He punishes everyone for the act of one person. Thanks God. Don't let anyone accuse you of being fair, just, or nice.
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