"'You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I Yahweh your god am a jealous god, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.'" -Yahweh, Exodus 20:5-6
This is the line I noticed when we were studying the Ten Commandments during my freshman year of high school. That was the exact point at which I started on the road to atheistic agnosticism. Even after fifteen impressionable years of dogmatic indoctrination, I had quite a bit of trouble fathoming the notion of punishing a person for the acts of their great-great-grandparents. Eventually, I relized that such nonsense was human bullshit, certainly not the words of any sort of infallible deity, and it all made sense.
We're not being punished for Eve's sin alone. "For all", count them, ALL "have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Again, life's a blessing in itself, and we don't DESERVE heaven, especially considering the number of times we screw up in our lives. But you have a shot at it anyway. Again, blessing, not deserved. Be happy.
Tim:
I Yahweh your god am a jealous god, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me
"Third and fourth generation OF THOSE WHO HATE ME." If the kids keep hating, the iniquity keeps building up. That's the way the world works in general: if your parents are affected by their past mistakes, then you're affected by them, and so are your kids, your grandkids, etc. However, if the kids are good, God shows "steadfast love". Makes perfect sense.
Again, it's all in how you look at life.
[ November 18, 2001: Message edited by: Omega ]
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
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Although I'd argue that syntax isn't going to be water-tight in a close to 2000 year old book that's been translated several times over.
And of course God's ego is huge. He's God. If you were God, you'd think you were the dogs bollocks too.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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IF he exists, he has some serious security issues. If you're all powerful who gives that others don't listen. Unless it means that a) you're not all powerful or b) you're a charlatan or c) you're wrong.
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Or, d) you're not interested in forced obedience.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
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"obey me or burn forever" IS forced obedience.
Life is a blessing.. .provided you're not born with crippling defects or into an abusive household, or with any number of problems that AREN'T your fault. You'll notice, Omega, that I'm not generally complaining for MYSELF, but for others.
Greater love hath no man, than he would stand up to God Himself for his friends. Or more, for people he doesn't even know.
Visiting evils upon the DESCENDANTS of those who anger you is... stupid, at best, vicious and outright evil, at worst. I'm pissed at you, so I hurt your children? If a human did that, we'd call him 'Monster.'
[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: First of Two ]
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
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Cartman
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quote:Life is a blessing.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Tell that to the parents of babies which where born blind and/or deaf, and/or with a mental handicap. Tell that to anyone who has been crippled for life - paralyzed from the neck down - in a severe accident. Tell that to a person who has lost family, or (a) good friend(s) to an as-of-yet uncurable disease (i.e. cancer). And I garuantee you, I will personally make sure you burn in your own damned hell if you try to pass this off as "God's will". How dare you even CLAIM to know the thoughts and desires of a supernatural entity?! Regardless of his/her/its existence, this is an indication of that self-righteous and arrogant attitude people at Flare have come to know you for.
You obviously haven't lived long enough to know what real misery means, how deeply it affects humans. No shit has hit your fan yet, but you have no idea how much I'm restraining myself from hoping it does, just to teach you some humility - because I've had more than enough of your narrow-minded, condenscending nature.
[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: Mojo Jojo ]
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If Cancer is God's will... then it's also gonna be God's will when I wallop you upside the haid with this two bah four...
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
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Hm... So, when life is a "blessing", Yahweh gets all the accolades for being so kind as to give that blessing to people, eh? If that's the case, then he certainly must also deserve the blame when life is a curse. If all he's doing is handing out lives, he can't only be responsible when they go right, and not when they go wrong. So, what's the deal? Why's Yahweh such a bastard that he would indiscriminately fuck some people over like that?
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Cartman
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Only the imaginary Big Cheese knows the answer to that one.
(Omega, of course, will try to find some bullshit excuse - despite the fact he can't possibly have the slightest clue what Fairytale Lord's reasons or motivations are.)
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I've examined the issue for years, and looked at all possible concepts/excuses, and have come to the conclusion that one of three things is possible:
1. God is mythical. 2. God is both Good and Evil. 3. The definitions which are generally applied to God (omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, omniscient) are lacking in the 'real' God.
If (1) Then worship is unnecessary. If (2) Then worship is futile. If (3) Then worship is useless.
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