posted
Really? I liked both. The new uniforms were more colourful than the standard ones of NTG, though admittedly they wouldn't be as flattering on heavier people. Anyway,I preferred the layout of color oveer trousers that harkens back to the TOS days. Quitre nice IMO.
Mark
------------------ "Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
posted
Well, Geordi didn't wear the new uniform in "Timeless" but he did have the new pin, which means the new pin most likely will come first. I don't have a problem with the new uniforms, though. Of course, it could be an Admiral thing, since Janeway is an Admiral in that scene.
------------------ "No, 3 & 6 are mandatory, so you only have to do them if you want"
Alex, fellow classmate, trying to explain an assignment (2/2/01)
posted
Riker also rode a starship extensively refitted to his personal tastes. Perhaps he was a latter-day General Patton, insisting on wearing a non-regulation uniform (but in this case clinging to his old flag uniform from a few years back, instead of designing a personal uniform of his own).
The possible "Endgame" ship looks interesting enough, but somehow it doesn't strike me as something Rick would do as his final job for the show. Perhaps Rick's input on the design wasn't all that significant, or perhaps he wanted to move towards a Jaegerian-Eavesian look to "smooth things over", to create a logical transition?
posted
The uniform does indeed look to be the same one as seen in AGT. Janeway's has a gold braid round the collar, though. I didn't particularly like the uniform's either, but I'm glad they're sticking with them for continuity's sake.
The "Timeless" future was only about 15 years hense, whereas AGT and "Endgame" appear to be 20-25 years from "now".
To me, the ship looks like one of the early designs of the Defiant, back when she was still the Valiant. One of the designs featured more swooping wings and no nose cone.
------------------ "The sons of the Prophet were valiant and bold, And quite unacustomed to fear. But, of all, the most reckless, or so I am told, Was Abdulah Boul Boul Ameer." Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com
posted
I think it's a mistake to use the "AGT" uniforms. They were designed to be an extrapolation of the late-TNG/DS9 uniforms, which have themselves since been superseded by the FC uniforms (which seem to have been further extrapolated into the future as the Relativity uniforms). I can't see them making a sudden shift back into very colourful uniforms in just 20 years.
Furthermore, they look crap. They were designed to be used in one ep, and they're not hard-wearing enough for regular re-wearing. They looked awful in "The Visitor" - rumpled and ill-fitting.
Another thought - did the "AGT" uniforms have the silly V-Pleat in the trouser cuffs? Because that's been abandoned on the FC uniform.
Ultimate question is: just because all such appearances of the "AGT" uniform have been in alternate timeleines that now won't happen - have in effect been such wildly alternate futures that we know the "real" future will be very different - does that completely invalidate them every swithing to wearing this style?
------------------ "It strikes me that there are enough episodes of the Simpsons that people could speak entirely in Simpsonese, using references from the show to explain or describe an endless series of situations. Nelson and Apu . . . at Tinagra.
But now I�ve brought Star Trek into it again, haven�t I. Sorry."
posted
I believe the observations of the future in AGT are a reasonable extrapolation of the future - at the time. Q, of course, could fake anything he wanted to, but it's also within his (claimed) powers to pop forwards in time (to a possible future?) and see how things actually progress.
Picard's experience - and later, Sisko's - have some effect on the timeline, thus we would not expect anything hinged on them to play out the same way. Depending on whether timelines are relatively stable or chaotic that could mean anything from almost no change to almost total change. Trek seems to consistently portray the former, given how easily they patch up and gloss over timeline changes.
(Contrast all of this with Riker's experience in "Future Imperfect" [TNG] where the simulated future is based entirely on Riker's imagination.)
Something like Starfleet uniform design - removed from Picard/Sisko by several intermediate layers and not a big matter of concern - would be unlikely to be affected by their actions. The fate of the Enterprise, directly under the control of Picard and dictated by even minor scheduling changes (the decision of which ship to send to investigate the observatory in ST: Generations, for example).
At least, that's my interpretation - based on the evidence we have - of how things work *as envisioned by the creators of the show*. I think the repeated use of this possible-future uniform is a *gasp* sign of consistency by the producers/designers of the show, who don't want to invent a new and different future look every time, and want us (the viewers) to recognize it.
The door is left wide open for a change in fashion if we ever do see the "actual" future (e.g. a follow-on series). If the Starfleet uniform designer happens to go on away mission led by Picard or Sisko then things are likely to look radically different.
posted
Since AGT and "The Visitor" are alternate timelines, if "Endgame" used different uniforms, sure it would have been okay. But I don't think these uniforms were based so much on the late-TNG uniforms, as on the TOS uniforms.
Personally, I'm just glad to see TPTB actually attempting some sort of continuity in Voyager...
------------------ "Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow." -Maynard James Keenan
posted
The events of "The Visitor" having been undone, we got the Klingon and the Dominion Wars, which apparently did not happen to the extent that they did in the "real" timeline. The wars no doubt had an impact on the darker, more militaristic turn of the uniforms designed for FC. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that uniform design would have been effected by Sisko's non-disappearance. However, it is also just as reasonable to assume that, the war having passed, uniform design will be changed back to the way it would have gone to go along with the "let's get past it" philosophy that may very well be permeating Starfleet right now.
In short (too late) I think either the established uniforms or a different one would have worked and am just as happy to see a little continuity.
------------------ "The sons of the Prophet were valiant and bold, And quite unacustomed to fear. But, of all, the most reckless, or so I am told, Was Abdulah Boul Boul Ameer." Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com
posted
Methinks the Starfleet Corps of Tailors didn't say "oh look, we're at war, let's make sure everyone's wearing something dark looking. That way, if people are watching our actions 400 years earlier on television, they'll catch a much better 'war' vibe."
The conflict with the Klingons probably had nothing to do with the introduction of new uniforms. Considering the things are made of ubercloth and designed to be amazingly good in all manner of environments, the R&D phase of them must be at least a year, meaning that uniforms can't just chance on a whim given changing political fortunes.
------------------ "I can be creative when I have a good idea. That just happens way too rarely." -Omega, April 6
posted
*disagrees 100% with the_tom but decides that's ok*
I actually think that changing the uniforms to fit the current climate makes alot of sense. "serious times call for serious clothes."
Once they came up with the material to make these miracles of fashion, would they really have to go through extensive R&D every time they made a change?
Some of you real-world military guys: Does the US military change uniforms for specific reasons?
------------------ "The sons of the Prophet were valiant and bold, And quite unacustomed to fear. But, of all, the most reckless, or so I am told, Was Abdulah Boul Boul Ameer." Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com
------------------ "Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow." -Maynard James Keenan
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