posted
Not at all- they've chosen ignorance. That's why it's so scary. "Uneducated" was not the best word- if they only lacked education, it would not be as bad- to reject science and thoudands of years of accumilated learning is...almost unthinkable.
Imagine if someone decided the world was flat- you'd think he's nuts. Evidence is abundant that his POV is not correct. Now imagine thousands of "flat earthers" spending money on campaigns, voting and influencing the government to teach that the world has as much chance of being flat as it does being a sphere.
Imagine the President was elected by such people and he and his party were beholden to them.
Also, it dpends on what you mean by "creationist theory". There is no definite "creationist" belief, so it's subjective. The term "creationist" is a bit of a catch all- some call themselves "creationist" believe simply that there is a creator of everything, others that everyone decended from Adam and Eve and that's fine. Others believe a more radical POV but still call themselves "creatoinist"- many think humans existed alongside the dinosaurs, some think all fossils were planted by Satan to mislead the faithful and that Darwin was a satanist.
Those people are....fanatics. ...and their number and influence is growing every year: I watched a televised sermon a few months back while channel surfing sunday morning wherein the Baptist pastor expounded just such nonsense, then went on to talk about how the world has been led astray by the "false beliefs" and must be "shown the light of God".
He was preaching in an ampithertre to thousands. They cheered him after he was finished- it was like watching an old film of Hitler in the 30's- people being told their way of thinking was under attack by foreigners and their beliefs, and must be stopped.
It's the doctrine of the Christian Coallition- not just some lone nut preacher.
I would not fault anyone for believing some of what's in the bible, but a strictly literal interpertation is obviously not supported by scientific facts.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: There is no definite "creationist" belief, so it's subjective. The term "creationist" is a bit of a catch all- some call themselves "creationist" believe simply that there is a creator of everything, others that everyone decended from Adam and Eve and that's fine. Others believe a more radical POV but still call themselves "creatoinist"- many think humans existed alongside the dinosaurs, some think all fossils were planted by Satan to mislead the faithful and that Darwin was a satanist.
You, sir, are quite correct. I firmly believe in creation, but I distance myself from Creationism. Some people who are creationists do not allow room in their interpretation of the Bible for similies, metaphors and illustrations. See below for more...
quote:I would not fault anyone for believing some of what's in the bible, but a strictly literal interpertation is obviously not supported by scientific facts.
As I stated above, the Bible is full of literary tools such as similies, metaphors, illustrations, examples, homilies, hyperbolies, etc... These things cannot be taken strictly literal.
On the other hand, while not a science textbook, the Bible is 100% reliable when it comes to scientific facts. Somtemes the Bible has been more reliable than the prevelant thought of science at the time. One example is the flat vs. round earth argument cited above. Centuries before man was convinced the Earth was round, the Bible plainly stated in Isaiah 40:22 that God is above the "circle of the Earth (or sphere, in Hebrew)"
Sometimes scientists take the Bible's scientific accuracy into doubt when discussing miracles. In this regard even the Bible says the event is a miraculous event. By definition miracles contradict the laws of nature: "An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God: 'Miracles are spontaneous, they cannot be summoned, but come of themselves.'"
Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: You, sir, are quite correct. I firmly believe in creation, but I distance myself from Creationism. Some people who are creationists do not allow room in their interpretation of the Bible for similies, metaphors and illustrations. See below for more...
Agreed. I believe in creation and feel that there's plenty of room for the basic tenants of creationism and evolutionary theory to walk hand-in-hand. Hell, there's plenty of room in science for religion and plenty of room in religion for science. Why some folks take the extremist view on both sides of the coin is beyond me.
However, what I take issue with is being lumped in with Tarot Wielding Pagans, people like Pat Robertson and/or being called a "fundie moron who rides the yellow short bus" just because I'm a Christian and believe in The Bible. That's something I have a hard time letting just lie still. Maybe I should get a paint brush and start making a wide swath with it where narrow-minded aetheists are concerned....
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
Space-Nazis
Space-Gangsta(er)s
Space-Geologists
Space-Theologicians
This thread delivers.
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
And to think it started out as an innocent enough cross-series spoting of ships....
Registered: Apr 2003
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
"Hell, there's plenty of room in science for religion..."
There is absolutely no room for something that cannot be falsified in a process that has the requirement of falsifiability at its very foundation.
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
I have to step in here and say - Einstein put it best:
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
You need some form of belief in something before you can get anywhere with science. Even an atheist has some form of belief. In that case, it's a belief that there is no God.
The Bible has been proven both right and wrong in many areas, but most often due to misinterpretation of what is written in it, but one side or the other.
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WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
Atheism IS a religion. What I find interesting is that it is OK for them to call believers wrong because they say we are narrow-minded and unaccepting of ideas outside the context of our beliefs. Typically these individuals will then say that we are wrong to call the ideas of others wrong because of our narrow-mindedness.
Ironically, they are simply doing the EXACT same thing themselves but because they are convinced that THEY are the ones in the right, it is OK for them to espouse those views.
The truth is, you will see what you are looking to find. If you want to find error, you WILL find error, either real or perceived.
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
"You need some form of belief in something before you can get anywhere with science."
Yes, but that belief has to be falsifiable, and thus excludes all religious ones.
"Even an atheist has some form of belief. In that case, it's a belief that there is no God."
No, in an atheist's case, it's actually a DISbelief in the existence of God, which (to get dangerously Tim-like for a moment) is logically not equivalent to a belief in the NON-existence of God. Put another way, lack of belief in one thing does not constitute belief in another.
"Atheism IS a religion."
Incorrect simply by the definition of the word atheism (being the absence of theism, ie. the absence of a system of religious beliefs, which is a religion).
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WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
From Dictionary.com:
Atheism: 1. a. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. b. The doctrine that there is no God or gods. 2. Godlessness; immorality.
A religion is a set of tenets that one operates from as a basis of belief. An atheist BELIEVES that there is no God. He can neither prove nor disprove his existence so therefor it is a belief. As a basis for his belief system then, atheism is as much a religion as any other belief system.
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
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posted
Is the very defintion of a religion not centered around a supernatural being? An athiest does not believe in a supernatural being, this his belief system as such is not a religion.
-------------------- I haul cardboard and cardboard accessories
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
hEY GUYS, I JUST DISCOVERED THAT STORIES ARE JUST AS VALID AS EMPIRICAL FACTS LOLOLOL111
Registered: Mar 1999
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WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
From Dictionary.com:
1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. 2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order. 3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. 4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Um, yeah that fourth one wouldn't describe an atheist's tenets at all!
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
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posted
Cartman : You're right to say that lack of belief in a god is not the same as belief in the lack of a god. The problem is that atheism is the latter. "Atheism" doesn't just mean "not theism". Otherwise, deists would be atheists. If someone's a real atheist, they believe there's definitely no god. And I have to agree with WizArtist (urgh, now I feel icky) that they don't really have room to talk, since their beliefs are just as belief-y as the other side's.
If someone doesn't believe that there is a god, but they also don't believe that there is definitely not a god, they're an agnostic. More or less. Not an atheist.
"The term 'creationist' is a bit of a catch all- some call themselves 'creationist' believe simply that there is a creator of everything, others that everyone decended from Adam and Eve and that's fine."
No it's not. Believeing in Adam and Eve (i.e. Yahweh created two primogenial Homo sapienses in their current form with no help from any damn dirty apes) is no different than those other ludicrous ideas you mentioned.
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