posted
Point taken about Tasha Yar, Woodside. I think you're right on further reflection. That would go for the chief medical officer too. That said, perhaps Worf should have been a Warrant Officer that first season.
I agree that most people with doctorates would not be happy about being a warrant offcer, though the logic would stand for the non-leadership physicians. Although educational titles raises a whole different issue of how a society that advanced would entitle different levels of education. In law, it used to be the only thing you got was an LLB. Eventually that was changed to the JD. But now they have more levels, the LLM and the SJD. The people in the military I've talked to have said they'd be insane to boss around someone more learned than they are, even if they are enlisted. With ensigns pushing around warrant officers, I'm sure many would eventually catch on that it's in their interest to cultivate relationships with their specialists, treat them as more competent than they are, and defer to their opinions more often.
Troi I never saw leading anyone until she became a bridge officer, so I think counselers could still be plausibly classified as such.
As for the yeoman promotion problem, I actually asked this same question on this board's predecessor about 5 years ago. A yeoman is typically a chief petty officer who performs clerical duties. I think it's more a title, not a rank. In theory, officers could be yeoman too. There are plenty of O-5s in the Pentagon who are probably working many of the same functions for O-7s and above as part of their ticket-punching.
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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posted
I'd love to see a boot ensign try pushing around a warrant. For starters, CWOs are commissioned officers. Secondly, no ensign would be that stupid.
In today's Navy there are many ways of becoming an officer. The primary way is to go to a 4 year college, then attend Officer Candidate School (OCS) in Pensacola, FL. Or try to go to the 4 year Naval Academy in Annapolis which I'm told is very selective. However the most common way is to go to college and join the Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) in which the military pays for your college and in return they join the Navy afterwards for 4 years as an officer.
For enlisted folks. There use to be several programs, but they've all been rolled into one, Seaman-to-Admiral (STA21). Another selection board in which those chosen will get the ability to go to college and be paid and a get a commission.
If you were to go to college on your own, say you get a shore duty billet and go to school and manage getting a bachelor's degree, you can request an early out from your enlisted and go to OCS. There's even been one Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) that's the top admiral who use to be enlisted. So to go from being a lowly seaman to the admiral in charge of the Navy is possible.
The difference between a warrant and a regular officer, is a CWO is a specialist in his field while an officer is a generalist. Basically an unrestricted line officer is expected to be able to do anything. A CWO doesn't have a college degree, but usually has about 20 years in the Navy and considered an expert in their field. However, a CWO will only work in their prior enlisted field. CWOs can become ensigns, but they do so as a Limited Duty Officer (LDO) which means they're limited to working in their field of expertise. For example, the USS Fitzgerald's chief of engineering, LT Dunn was LDO and prior enlisted but managed to make it all the way to becoming a department head.
-------------------- I'm slightly annoyed at Hobbes' rather rude decision to be much more attractive than me though. That's just rude. - PsyLiam, Oct 27, 2005.
Registered: May 1999
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posted
Hobbes, are you sure about CWOs' authority? I thought the distinction between the officer types was that the president gave you a warrant to be an officer, whereas Congress gives you a commission. The CWOs were uncommissioned officers (as opposed to Non-Commissioned Officers). Am I wrong?
One other thing: do all CWOs have so much experience before their promotion? I thought that a large number of helicopter pilots in the Army were CWOs. Would they have waited so long to fly?
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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posted
Warrant Officers are Commissioned officers. Trust me they have ALOT of authoritiy. My old division officer was a crazy CWO4 and he once told the XO who was a Captain where to stick it. They are the experts in their fields and are very respected and looked up to. To become a warrant you have to put in a package when you are either a CPO or a PO1. Then you get selected and then you are commisioned.
-------------------- "Who cares if we bomb a few hospitals, it just means we got them a second time" Warrant Officer Robert Clift, CVN-71 OEF
Registered: Aug 2002
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"Warrant officers hold warrants from their service secretary and are specialists and experts in certain military technologies or capabilities. The lowest ranking warrant officers serve under a warrant, but they receive commissions from the president upon promotion to chief warrant officer 2. These commissioned warrant officers are direct representatives of the president of the United States. They derive their authority from the same source as commissioned officers but remain specialists, in contrast to commissioned officers, who are generalists. There are no warrant officers in the Air Force."
It should be noted, the rank of WO1 has been discontinued and the CWO ranks begin at CWO2.
-------------------- I'm slightly annoyed at Hobbes' rather rude decision to be much more attractive than me though. That's just rude. - PsyLiam, Oct 27, 2005.
Registered: May 1999
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-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Marauth: P.S. is it possible for a CWO to advance to an ensign? I ask because at least in the 23rd C. it was - Yoeman Rand became a Lieutenant (IIRC) by the time of STVI.
To bring a bit info from other countries than the US in here: In Germany it is possible if you are "CPO" to go to the equivalent of "Cadet 3rd yr" (of three) and then to "Ensign"
I wonder if Starfleet does it similar, because Rand said it took three years to become Ensign, and she was a CPO in TMP (and still or Cadet in STIV)
posted
What of the rank of Fleet Captain?? Christopher Pike held the rank of Fleet Captain before he was severly injured that restricted him to a specially designed wheelchair.
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
I think FLTCAPT would be more of a positional title like Commodore is in the Navy. Meaning, he's not quite an Admiral, but has greater responsibilites than a regular Captain. Or, while a Captain would command a single ship, a FLTCAPT would command a large group of ships.
-------------------- I'm slightly annoyed at Hobbes' rather rude decision to be much more attractive than me though. That's just rude. - PsyLiam, Oct 27, 2005.
Registered: May 1999
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Anybody with a certain degree of intelligence would know that in order to prevent such things, you choose prime numbers, for example, 2 for 'yes' and 3 for 'no'... but when have Starfleet officers shown such intelligence?
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Titles like Fleet Captain and Commodore are positions given a person that ranks less then an admiral, that commands a fleet, like when a commander is the captain of a ship, but not of captain rank. In other words, Pike had a honorary position with no actual armada to command.
Registered: Nov 2002
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