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[QUOTE]Originally posted by HerbShrump: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Zefram: [qb] The difference between the Father and the Son has been the source of controversy for a long time. The Nicene Creed from the 300's A.D. decided that they were one in the same personage. However, to me that doesn't quite explain this: John 17: 20-21: "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." Here Jesus is praying for his disciples, asking the Father that they may one as he and the Father are one. Now, unless he wanted his followers to become some sort of great amalgamated being, the scripture seems to indicate that they are indeed two separate individuals. [/qb][/QUOTE]One in thought. One in purpose. One in agreement. Just like the scripture you pointed out above. Not one as in the same being. Again, Zefram, you illustrated the point well. It was the Nicene Creed and Constantine that set the Catholic Church down the path toward the Trinity. Traditions of man overruling the Bible. [QUOTE][b]Ritten said[/b] Herb, how can an incomplete book be harmonious with itself? The Vatican choose which books to include and exclude, running on a Pope's time line for maintaining power. Such as absorbing the pagan beliefs of the time in order to increase the size of the Church.[/QUOTE]Ritten, you're also illustrating my point. Accepting the traditions of Man as doctrine. What we accept as the entire Bible was complete roughly 200 years before the Council of Nicea. Since then man has been meddling in attempt to fit the Bible into their mold. How can an "incomplete" book be harmonious? It can be harmonious within itself. Let's break it down. Before Jesus was born there was just the Old Testament or Hebrew Scriptures. That testament was complete up to that time. It was harmonious in that nothing within those scriptures was out of harmony with anything else. Then came the New Testament or Christian Greek Scriptures (since the majority of it was written in Greek). The question to ask if are these scriptures in harmony with what is already established (the Old Testament)? [QUOTE]Take the Hebrew word for kill and murder for the Big 10. How can God in one section say you Shall not kill, then direct his people to do just that? Thou shall not murder, on the other hand, makes more sense by far. Yet people cling to the word kill.[/QUOTE]Don't governments today do the same thing? Most nations have laws preventing murder, yet many countries choose to enforce the death penalty. Now, this is definitely a delicate political issue and even members on this board either agree or disagree with this. Regardless of where you or I stand on the issue of the Death Penalty, it doesn't nullify the fact that such a law exists despite the fact that individuals of the same nation are told not to kill. [QUOTE]While the original written works could well have been divinely inspired I can not give that weight to any translations or compilations of those works.[/QUOTE]Another good point. The Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. We all can't be language scholars and be fluent in these languages so we need translations. How though do we know the translation we're reading is accurate? [/QB][/QUOTE]
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