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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Michael Dracon</b> <br /><small>Member # 4</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,6,25,7,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:26 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I was thinking about making a new (non-Star Trek) webpage with frames. But these days almost every page no longer has frames. Is it becoming obsolete? What do you prefer?<P>------------------<BR>"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'."<BR>- Buffy <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Fabrux</b> <br /><small>Member # 71</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,6,25,11,2,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:02 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> My site has frames <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><P>------------------<BR>"Huh. An intelligent guard. I never would have guessed."<BR>-Preed, <I>Titan A.E.</I><P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Aethelwer</b> <br /><small>Member # 36</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,6,25,11,33,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:33 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It depends on whether you need frames. Most of the sites I've done don't use them, but <A HREF="http://frankg.dgne.com/sfsd/">SFSD</A> does, because I have that long list of ships and the individual pages don't need a lot of screen space.<P>------------------<BR><A HREF="http://frankg.dgne.com/" TARGET=_blank>Frank's Home Page</A><BR>"However, trying to convince your friends to learn a language is about as easy to do as getting a date with the pickup line 'Have you been to Weight Watchers?'" - <A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/cZaR16/H2IARL/H2IARL.htm" TARGET=_blank>How To Invent A Real Language</A><p>[This message has been edited by The Shadow (edited July 25, 2000).] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Hobbes</b> <br /><small>Member # 138</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,6,25,12,44,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:44 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I don't even know how to use frames. Let alone the need for them when a table will do.<P>------------------<BR>O'Neill: "I think what Captain Carter is trying to say is, what do we do now?"<BR>Bra'tac: "Now we die."<BR>O'Neill: "Well that's a bad plan."<BR><A HREF="http://thefsd.tripod.com" TARGET=_blank>Federation Starship Datalink</A> New and Improved! Fresh minty scent, same great taste! <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Fructose</b> <br /><small>Member # 309</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,6,25,13,52,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:52 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> If you want a simple look, go frameless. If you want to have some complexity, use frames, but make them easy to use. I like simple, so I have a frameless site.<P>------------------<BR>It doesn't matter if you don't know what you're doing as long as you look good doing it.<P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jeff Raven</b> <br /><small>Member # 20</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,6,25,20,19,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 25, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:19 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Frames are out. Tables are in.<P>When I learn tables, I'll use them.<P>------------------<BR>"The lies I told are not falsehoods according to my definition of truth." Bill Clinton<BR>"All stupid people are liberals, because they don't know any better." Rob Rodehorst<BR>"Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups" - Dilbert, Scott Adams<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Fabrux</b> <br /><small>Member # 71</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,6,26,11,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 26, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:35 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> What about a table menu in a frame? <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/wink.gif"><P>------------------<BR>"Huh. An intelligent guard. I never would have guessed."<BR>-Preed, <I>Titan A.E.</I><P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Brown_supahero</b> <br /><small>Member # 83</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,6,26,20,3,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 26, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:03 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Tables are in because most corporate sites use PHP or ASP or CGI to produce webpages and they are not able to generate frames<P>My rules to "frame or not to frame"<P>I frame if<P>High graphics "media" if it has flash and shit i frame<BR>High traffic if i want you to go somewhere else but yet stay in my site, frame<P>If you're to lazy to make complex tables (god damn dumb ass attributes) frame<P>There is a new trend now for simple webpages to multiple repeating HTML codes (ie side/top navigation bar) throught your site using Java.<BR>Want to learn it come to my class at the University of .........<P><I> sorry for that plug but for some reason enrollment is down for september, well it still june </I><P>------------------<BR>"<I>...that degenerative honky.</I>"<BR> - Hermes<BR> refering to fry in<BR> Futurama<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Charles Capps</b> <br /><small>Member # 9</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,6,27,6,8,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 27, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:08 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Tables are in because most corporate sites use PHP or ASP or CGI to produce webpages and they are not able to generate frames<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Correction: Their programmers are too lazy to make their scripts generate frames.<P>------------------<BR>"Guess what? I got Marina Sirtis to sign my butt!"<BR> -- Fooker, <A HREF="http://www.gpf-comics.com/d/19990612.html" TARGET=_blank>GPF</A> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Bernd</b> <br /><small>Member # 6</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,6,28,6,58,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 28, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:58 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Despite the easy navigation, there are several reasons against frames - why almost none of the big search engines or company pages uses them:<P>- It is harder to design frames to support all screen resolutions than it is w/o them. Parts of the index frame may not be visible. You might suppress the ugly horizontal scroll bar or just accept that buttons are only partially visible in some cases.<P>- Administration is complicated if there is more than just a standard frame for the whole site which is always there.<P>- If the frame sets change, "frames in frames" may appear under certain circumstances.<P>- Netscape crashes more often in frames than in single pages.<P>- Some users (like me) like to open pages in new windows which appear w/o the frame.<P>- The content frame is found in a search engine, and displayed w/o the index frame, so that no navigation is possible.<P>- Sometimes full size screens are just better for the visualization.<P>BTW, IMHO Java navigation is a horrible thing, since it considerably slows down ("starting Java...") the rendering of each single page even on fast computers. Simple navigation should be done only with HTML or, if necessary to implement a "mouse-over" effect, with JavaScript.<P>------------------<BR>"Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities."<BR><A HREF="http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org" TARGET=_blank>Ex Astris Scientia</A> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Michael Dracon</b> <br /><small>Member # 4</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,6,28,8,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 28, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:35 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Some very good things to think about. Thanks!<P>I'm currently leaning towards frames, but I saw a very good layers example which I might use.<P>If I'm doing frames, I'm making sure it's fully usable in 640x480, although some users tend to use smaller windows on larger screens.<P>------------------<BR>"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'."<BR>- Buffy <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Fabrux</b> <br /><small>Member # 71</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,6,28,11,5,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">July 28, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:05 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, my page has a background in the "main" frame that can only be seen at 1280*1024... However, that resolution isn't all that popular, so it doesn't really matter. It's just a mirror of the background on the menu. I put it there so I can see it... <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/wink.gif"><P>------------------<BR>"Fragile. Do not drop"<BR>--<I>posted on a Boeing 757</I> <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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