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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gurgeh: [QB] Omega: Yes, I am saying we know for a fact that evolution occurred, but we also have a good idea of how it occurred. The difference between the concept of evolution and the concept of a flat world is that although the flatness of the world was assumed, it wasn't proven. Evolution is proven. You're a librarian, am I correct? If the library has books on biology, or more specifically, evolution, I'm sure you'd find them easy enough to understand, and very interesting. Saiyanman Benjita: Evolution is known to be as much a fact as gravity is. Although our description of these may not be complete, we know they exist. Before Newton quantified gravitational force we knew that if you held a stone and left it go it fell to the ground. Just because someone can't live long enough to [i]see[/i] the effects of evolution, it doesn't mean that it can't be proven. When I did Biology in first year we were presented with 7 or 8 observed facts which prove that evolution exists. 100% proof, if you like. I can't remember them all, but one of the easiest to see is the study of a growing human foetus. In it's development the foetus is seen to go through stages which resemble an evolutionary path. For instance, a growing embryo has gills, which become some gland (thyroid, I think) later in development. "Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" is a phrase which is bandied about quite a lot, but isn't entirely accurate. It is more correct to say that ontogeny(study of embryos) reveals some aspects of phylogeny(study of evolutionary development). More proof comes from the study of the Galapagos islands, where the development of birds which came from mainland south america can be seen as they progressed from island to island. More proof comes from extensive fossil records. Several case studies have observed evolution due to natural selection eg. a particular breed of bird(can't remember the name) which only eats one specific type of seed. When the weather is wet(over the course of a year), the seeds are large and fleshy, and the birds with smaller bills are at an advantage as they can eat faster, become better nourished, are chosen by the opposite sex, mate, and rear offspring. When the bill sizes are measured by biologists, the next generation of offspring have a marked decrease in bill size. If the weather is dry, the seeds are hard, and those birds with larger bills can crack open the seeds better, so the next generation of birds has a measured increase in bill size. The results show an accurate correlation between the weather and the bill sizes. There are many observed cases like this. Although the results aren't as dramatic as evolving a new organ or something, they are significant, and it is easy to see that environmental changes have an active role to play in the genome of the species. There is an abundance of proof of this type. It might be worth trying to check some of this out for yourselves before trying to argue about it. Tora Ziyal: [QUOTE]Ignorance is being uninformed. Uninformed of what? Technically everyone is ignorant, only in different fields of expertise. The homeless on the street may know more about life or the psychology of generosity than we do.[/QUOTE]Well, uninformed about evolution, for one. Knowing about the psychology of generosity is all very well, but it doesn't help when trying to argue about the existance, or otherwise, of supernatural deities and the origin of life. But I'm sorry if my choice of words offended some of you. Hobbes: Your explanation of the origin of religion is exactly correct. The events in the Bible are just exaggerated versions of events that may or may not have happened. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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