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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Nim the Fanciful: [qb] Jason: "Society and immeadeate social environment dont excuse illegal and morally reprehensible behavior." I'm sorry to say it does, in too many people's minds, though they don't think of it as illegal or reprehensible, of course. I've seen too many examples of abuse at the hands of "enlightened" people in everyday society, who thought they were "within their rights", to be surprised that the Iraq prison scandal happened. It doesn't take "extreme psychological maladjustment" or some fancy psychological illness to make a tormentor or executioner out of your average joe, as long as he's worked-up enough and gets the ok from the brass or his/her colleagues.[/QUOTE][/qb] Nonsense: decent "adverage joe" people refrain from such behavior under far more extreme circumstances than those in Iraq: no amount of unnofficial "okay" or peer pressure could have convinced those soldiers that what they did was in any way acceptable (particularly as they're from the U.S. where civil rights are the standard everyone is entitled to). These guys have serious problems that the military cant be blamed for causing, to have done these things. [QUOTE][qb] I wasn't saying that the blame-system in the military always creates monsters, but when you have a chain of command within which bad grudges travel downwards, you create a platform for future lashouts at the base level, with prison keepers and "grunts" who lose their temper with civilians and prisoners.[/qb][/QUOTE]None of wich in any standard of law excuses criminal behavior or behavior not in keeping with military codes. [QUOTE][qb] Since most of the abusers at the pictures were smiling, it wasn't a question of random lashouts but systematic and calculating abuse, with pictures taken as mementos. I guess these people had simply seen a lot of bad things in the war, created by their enemy, and had no problem exacting justice on them, like poor 'Fuck Hitler' in "Saving Private Ryan" (though that one turned out badly). [/qb][/QUOTE]No.....people out for revenge dont take momentos that way: besides, unless the prison was staffed solely with family members of 9/11 victims, there'd be zero chance of a "traumatization defense" standing up in court (not to underestimate the power of 12 dumb jurors). No US Citizen would think such behavior acceptable in a US prison, none should think so of our prisons overseas either. I get the point you're trying to make about those in command making a bad situation worse (particularly via lack of positive support) but thousands of armed forces members (millions worldwide) would have never subjected their prisoners to that kind of inhumane abuse. This is a case on an extremely small minority being allowed to indulge in whatever perverse behavior they wanted with no oversight. Also of note: Arab TV has neglected to even mention that most of the prison's guards are still Iraqi- or that it's the Iraquis that suppoedly raped prisoners (not that our troops there prevented them). [/QB][/QUOTE]
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