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[QUOTE]Originally posted by SCSImperium: [QB] [QUOTE]SCSImperium: I still have a bone to pick with you.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Oh and BTW, I've sent your comments to several friends of mine. I have yet to receive comments from them. When I do, I'll be sure to post them here.[/QUOTE] Oh, pah! I've dealt with hundreds of death threats from an actual newspaper I write/edit for. And the topics I write about aren't near as controversial as what I draw up here. I might never win your opinion on this matter, but I'll win this argument ... Since this must be the 5th or 6th post, I think my approach needs to change .. [QUOTE]You say that speech and suffrage are two different things, that women can have the right to free speech, but not the right to vote. Voting is a way to express free speech[/QUOTE] Political speech might be harmed if the women's vote were repealed. And that doesn't necessarily mean because of a loss of suffrage, women don't still influence the vote on certain issue regardless of the political era, movements, or views. Woman influenced the vote in ancient Rome, as they have in cultures since. They could own land, and payed taxes, yet couldn't vote; they brought forth the argument of "taxation without representation" to Augustus. Augustus replied "It's rediculous you should be able to vote [i]twice[/i]," and sent them home. He was referring that the wife's interests were reflected in the husband. The first woman's liberation movement was a failure. Why? It was before its time. The Romans didn't make the industrial age. For many reasons, irrelvant to discuss here, they didn't reach it, so the barrier wasn't to be passed for about thousand seven hundred so years. And this brings me to your next comment [QUOTE]we'd all plunge backwards into middle-age politics where women are simply second-class citizens.[/QUOTE] The industrial revolution is what changed woman's position in society. That happened in 1880's, 90ish. And from this radical change, women started working, starting becoming apart from men, and the "husband's vote". This time when the suffrage movement began, it was a success. Why? Because women being a seperate unit in the workforce needed the vote. [b]I doubt at any point in history women have been declared second class citizens. That word in itself is an invention of the post industrial revolution. It classes itself with a time and age that is ending. So please, Mr. Tahna, draw me a reference in your argument that doesn't anchor itself to today's views. I respect the past more than the present.[/b] This leads me today. The Industrial Age is ending. Manned labor and factories are closing down and becoming less integral of the base economy. And thus the required physical labor force is shrinking, and we can see ourselves in a similar situation to that before the industrial revolution; woman are taking their place back at the home. They can now do jobs from home, computer terminals, et cetera. Of course, I'm heading a little into the future with what I'm saying, because right now woman are seen throughout physical workplaces. This maybe a little insight into the near future. I used Clinton as one example. A simplification. This is probably more my opinion than a clear example of destruction in American society, but, for that matter, it would be hard to find a president that could harm such a well constructed democracy. Of course the idea of limiting rights in a democracy seems backward. Though, consider, rights not only expand, but contract with time and technological ages. Using what I have said above, the woman's vote is becoming more superfluous as we move away from the industrial era when they mattered. To conclude, I'm sure most everyone you e-mail my selected comments to will agree that I'm wrong. Sexist, discrimatory, what have you. But I ask you again, look at the past. Look at the relationships between the entering and exiting of ages and the political views and movements that follow and [b]end[/b] with them. I have more to post later ... [/QB][/QUOTE]
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