Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Whoops! Uh-oh....

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Posted by Jaresh Inyo on :

Looks like the Pakistani Army has decided to take over the country. You just know that the Indians won't appreciate that...

Posted by Xentrick (Member # 64) on :

what do we want? The Apocalypse!!

when do we want it? Now!!

Posted by RW (Member # 27) on :

I hope they locked up the nukes.

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

Yeah baby! WW3 just in time for the millennium. What a satisying bookend for such a bloody century.

*grabs artillery store, a shopping trolley full of cans of beans and heads for high ground*

Remember! Anyone comes says they're from the UN? - shoot 'em!

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"FOOLS! Will I have to kill them ALL?!?!"

Posted by HMS White Star (Member # 174) on :

Don't worry this won't start WWIII, It's not the first time a government with nukes had there old government overthrown, Coups happen all the time. Hey once the figure out Gee if we launch nukes we die too, they would do anything...hopefully. More likely this just a little internal conflict involving the Prime Minister and the head of the Army, No big deal

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Step 1: Become a senior member,
Step 2: ?,
Step 3: Global Domination

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Er...such as? Aside from the attempted coup in Russia, I can't think of any.

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"Quadrilateral I was, now I warp like a smile."
--
Soul Coughing

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

No boom today, boom tomorrow, there's always a boom tomorrow! BOOM!!
Susan Ivanova

This is a very good chance for a war to start. Some S***head with a God complex(ie:thinks he's God)manages to take over a country with nukes, boom today!

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"One Tequila, Two Tequila, Three Tequila, Floor". George Carlin

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Before I go on, this needs to be shipped off to the Flameboard.

I can name two people with a God Complex: Hitler, and Slobodan Milosevic.

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Um, no it doesn't. Not unless someone decides to take up the pro-nuclear war stance, in which case I could see an argument.

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"Quadrilateral I was, now I warp like a smile."
--
Soul Coughing

Posted by RW (Member # 27) on :

There are worse people than Milosevic. His wife for example.

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

If someone takes up a pro-nuclear holocaust stance, remind me never to vote for them for anything, 'kay?

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")

Posted by Jaresh Inyo on :

NUKE!!! NUKE!!! NUKE!!! NUKE!!! NUKE!!! NUKE!!! NUKE!!!

*Coughs*

*Scuffs feet*

*Leaves*

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"I promise you, Wilma, that not one man on this force will rest until the criminal scum that did this are behind bars. Now let's go get a bite to eat." - Frank Drebbin, Detective Lieutenant in Police Squad

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

This is why we need a large nuclear stockpile. With a couple gigatons of nuclear explosives at our disposal, the only person dumb enough to attack us with nukes would be someone who was completely off their rocker, and if they did blow up one or two of our cities, we'd flatten their entire country. Of course, if SOMEONE would just finish that SDI...

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"I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground: That "all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people . . ." To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition."
- Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1791

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

*shakes Magic Infinity Ball*

Signs point to no.

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"Quadrilateral I was, now I warp like a smile."
--
Soul Coughing

Posted by RW (Member # 27) on :

Did anyone hear yet what's going to happen in Pakistan? It's in and out of the news like *snaps fingers* that.

(OK, I lied, I can't snap my fingers. Weird eh?)

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

I see. Like anyone was ever going to bother attacking the USA. Reality check: the USSR wasn't. They knew they wouldn't win, even with their massive armed forces, and they knew that if they nuked everyone then there wouldn't be anyone left to convert to communism. It was the States who were simultaneously juggling the concept "better dead than Red" with a pious determination that they wouldn't start a nuclear war.

Now, children, which of those two rules do you think would be the first to be broken after the Warsaw Pact had overrun Western Europe in two days? And if you think it's the "better dead than Red" you'd be wrong.

So, please, let's have none of this "we have nukes so nobody will f*** with us" rubbish. The only likely use of the arsenal anytime soon will be if certain religious bigots (who have a representation here) get to see their religious dictatorship installed, in which case I suspect the rest of the world will be told very politely "worship Christ or die."

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Religious bigots have a representation here? I haven't run into any.

And I meant that nobody will attack us with their own nukes. Our army can handle conventional warfare. Well, at least it could before Clin-Ton got here. We were supposed to be able to fight a war on three fronts. Now I doubt we could fight on one very effectively.

Posted by RW (Member # 27) on :

Religious bigots? The US is full of them. And yes, I know they're not only in the US. They're here too. They're in our parliament too (not too many though, luckily), they want theocracy, and I hate their undemocratic guts, but I know they're pretty harmless. Now, if anyone here still thinks I'm only bitching about the US.. :]

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Someone mentioned that the reason we need a huge nuclear arsenal is so, if someone attacks us, we can wipe them off the planet (or something to that effect; I didn't bother to go back and look). Actually, this is precisely the reason not to have a large nuclear arsenal. If you've got it, you're going to be tempted to use it. Think about it...

Large nuke stockpile: Somebody attacks us, we attack back, nuclear holocaust.

No nuke arsenal: Somebody attacks us, they run out of nukes, we wipe them out w/ conventional weaponry. Much less chance of global nuclear winter...

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"It'd be a pity if every pencil on Earth suddenly collapsed in on itself and blew everything up."
-Krenim, TNO chat, September 30, 1999

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Hitting one small country isn't going to cause a global winter. Of course, now that China poses a legitimate threat, thanks to Clinton selling them three decades of technology and the ability to hit anywhere on the planet, I'm getting ready for another cold war, and we just have to hope that some wacko doesn't get in charge over there. Insanity and the ability to destroy the planet have never been combined before, and for good reason. We wouldn't be here if they had been. Again, SOMEONE HAS TO FINISH THE SDI! That's what killed the USSR. Without their missiles, they were nothing, and they knew that SDI would make their missiles useless.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

LOO-KNEE!

SDI, while nice on paper, wouldn't have worked. What finally defeated the Soviets was that our big, bloated Federal government finally outspent them. "hostilities the Klingons can no longer afford," and such.

The USSR had/s enough warheads to utterly destroy, or at the very least terminally poison, all life in the US six times over. So shooting down 5 out of 6 missiles (a better rate than SDI even proposed) would still have left us with everybody dead anyway.

Our retaliatory exchange, of course, would have done the same to them, regardless of SDI. This would still have likely been enough to kill everybody everywhere.

SDI might, now, be effective against organized missile attacks from agressor nations with limited arsenals... but who does that when it's easier just to drive a truck up to Central Park and set one off in a briefcase?

Oh, and nuclear winter could be a factor even in an exchange of only a dozen warheads. Remember how far the radioactive dust spread after Chernobyl? That was ONE explosion, and it didn't even have a high stratospheric mushroom cloud.

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'In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to Liberty; he is always in allegiance to the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own." ---- Thomas Jefferson

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

But we can always save the best and the brightest by moving them to deep underground mineshafts. There, they will prodigiously breed the future of the human race.

Of course, we'll have to abandon monogamy...

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"Quadrilateral I was, now I warp like a smile."
--
Soul Coughing

Posted by Orion Syndicate (Member # 25) on :

This is my first post on the coup in Pakistan, so here goes. I'm worried!

I wouldn't be as worried if a General like General Zia (the guy who took over Pakistan about 20 years ago)had taken over this time aswell. This is because General Zia was a politician as well as a military leader, so he could be trusted more. Before the coup, I hadn't heard of General Musharraf, but after seeing his speech, it is clear that he is no politician, but a General who took over the country because he was pissed off at being ordered to pull out of Kashmir and give up the land that he had gained, and then sacked.

This man is obviously a patriot, but does not have what it takes to run a country effectively. What happens when there's internal troubles? You look for ways to divert attention as we have seen many times from other countries. This would inevitably involve India and the Kashmir conflict, and could lead to another war.

I have family in both India and Pakistan, so this could have tragic consequences for all, not just me. I can just hope that the deterrant factor remains strong in the minds of the leaders because now we have a Right wing government in India and a military leadership in Pakistan. The deterrant is the main hope that we have.

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Do business with us, or we'll ruin you.

Posted by HMS White Star (Member # 174) on :

I just read a Time Article that says the that the West doesn't really care. Here's the article http://www.pathfinder.com/time/daily/0,2960,32810-101991018,00.html

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Pinky we will so rule the world...as soon as I figure out what step 2 is.

Posted by Orion Syndicate (Member # 25) on :

The problem with the Pakistani governments is this. Nearly all of the democratically elected governments since independence have been corrupt. The small group of wealthy families get richer whilst the poor are forced to scrape the ground looking for things to eat. The military governments however are not accepted by the international community because they are 'not democratic'.

The military government of General Zia was patriotic and although some of the officials were corrupt, the General himself made it his goal to stamp out corruption, and used some methods which most people would consider harsh and brutal. However, it was working, and according to my friends and relatives in Pakistan (who are all from poor backgrounds), life was getting a lot better. Then Zia got killed in a plane explosion, the civilian government returns and the situation got worse again.

Although I do not support the new leader himself, I would support a leader like the late General who was patriotic, but also posesses a political brain, which I feel General Musharraf doesn't have. If he accepts his shortcomings and takes on a suitable advisor, I might be willing to give him a chance.

Like it or not, democracy cannot work in all countries. Pakistan needs a strong leader who will take a tough stance on corruption, and in that country, I think that only a military government can succeed. The candidates who stand for election in Pakistan are always wealthy, always have outside interests and are always corrupt. Any aid given to Pakistan is firstly raided by the officials and then what little is left is passed down. These governments are parasites, feeding off the poor of Pakistan, and if the nation is to have any hope of rebuilding, these people need to be kept from positions of power.

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Do business with us, or we'll ruin you.

[This message has been edited by Orion Syndicate (edited October 18, 1999).]

Posted by HMS White Star (Member # 174) on :

Now since I back up a the fully operational HMS I can comment.

Well yes some countries work better with a dictator, lets take Chile, they had a very mean and nasty fellow Pictocia (sp), but he really helped the economy, and the average person ended up a lot better off economically after his reign then before it, it's one of those strange things were a bad thing is good economically like after the black death people who survived made a lot more money (cuz 30% of the work force died off).

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Pinky we will so rule the world...as soon as I figure out what step 2 is.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

It's "Pinochet" (Pin-oh-shay).

Actually, there are some schools of thought that would agree that the fastest-working, and most efficient form of government IS an absolute Dictatorship, with all power resting in the leader's hands. Heinlein espoused the concept of the "Benevolent Tyranny," or the "Constitutional Tyranny" in certain of his books.

Of course, the actual GOODNESS of such a system could only be evaluated by the wisdom and ethics of a dictator. A benevolent, wise person could accomplish a great deal -- but a corrupt, mad, foolish or evil individual could likewise do a tremendous amount of damage. And, of course, succession would be a problem.

I'm working on a Story Universe in which one Human Empire (of three) is run by a hereditary Tyrant, who personally selects his or her chosen successor from among the ranks of candidates deemed fit through intelligence and personality tests. The Tyrant-elect is encouraged to become an expert in as many fields as possible, usually including some military background.
For instance, Daniel IX was (before becoming Tyrant) a Infantry Soldier, an Astronomer, and a Poet, among other things. His successor, Sarah XV, is a StarFighter Pilot, Geologist, and Economist.

I have a good concept of my own ethics (fairly benign), and have been fortunate enough to surround myself with wise and experienced people. This is another reason why I would make a good Dictator.

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Doesn't matter what good Pinochet did. He has to account for the thousands of people who have died during his reign.

The shocking thing about Pinochet is that the US actually helped him overthrow a democratically elected government. The old President of Chile, Salvador Allende, was executed in his own home by troops loyal to Pinochet.

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Unfortunately the United States has always been quick to turn its back on democracies when national interests were threatened. In Latin America, this has almost always been in the form of the International Communist Conspiricy. The idea that a blood thirsty tyrant loyal to U.S. money is safer than a more benevolent leader who just might see eye to eye with the Soviet Union in a few things.

At any rate, I suggest everyone read Plato's Republic.

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"Quadrilateral I was, now I warp like a smile."
--
Soul Coughing

Posted by HMS White Star (Member # 174) on :

Hey talk to my parents they actually like Pinochet, and say that that a dictator like him would be good for the country (stop before you say "What the Hell" my mom and dad are both from Colombia and if you knew how screwed up that country is, you might agree).

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Pinky we will so rule the world...as soon as I figure out what step 2 is.