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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1" width="95%" align="center"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"><td> <table border="0" width="100%" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1"> <tr bgcolor="#234c6f"> <td colspan="2" align="left"> <font size="3" color="#FFFFFF" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>T O P I C ��� R E V I E W</b> </font></td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Mythril</b> <br /><small>Member # 286</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,5,23,0,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 05, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">11:00 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> After much thought and observation, i have deduced that there are 3 driving forces for the human race.<P><BR>1. Greed: it drives the world economy with out money is worthless.<P>2. Stupidity: How else would the greedy people make money. By preying on the stupid and gullable.<P>3. Sex: this has started and ended wars, forged civilizations and is geneticaly ingrained into the human genome, this is the ultimate of the 3, the drive to mate.<P><BR>I would like to here your oppinions on this.<P>------------------<BR>I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.<P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Omega</b> <br /><small>Member # 91</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,6,0,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 06, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:35 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Not greed. The wish to better your conditions is not nesecarily greed. It's greed when it's to the exclusion of all else, or when you knowingly harm someone else.<P>And there's protection, either of self or loved ones.<P>------------------<BR>You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Curry Monster</b> <br /><small>Member # 12</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,6,0,37,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 06, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:37 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'd say survival overrides all three. But funnily enough, the above are all components of survival. <P>------------------<BR>Samaritan: "A good hot curry will help heal your wounds. That is, unless your religion forbids it".<P>Man: (Eyes growing wide) "No religion forbids a good hot curry".<P>-From some movie. <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,6,1,3,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 06, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:03 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I hesitate to make sweeping pronouncements, but seeing as how the "meaning of life" has been the topic of much formal debate for over two thousand years, I am not anticipating that the answer can be summed up in three catchy lines.<P>However, that isn't to say it can't be. I'm just not anticipating it. Heck, I didn't anticipate having to wake up early this morning, which shows you what I know.<P>------------------<BR>"20th Century, go to sleep."<BR>--<BR>R.E.M.<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Omega</b> <br /><small>Member # 91</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,6,1,28,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 06, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:28 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Survival, reproduction, and betterment of one's conditions, perhaps? In that order.<P>------------------<BR>You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>TSN</b> <br /><small>Member # 31</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,6,3,23,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 06, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:23 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Y'know, I think Scott Adams came to the same conclusion as Necro in <i>The Dilbert Future</i>.<P>------------------<BR>Lisa: "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."<BR>Bart: "Not if you called them 'stench blossoms'..."<BR>-<I>The Simpsons</I> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Saltah'na</b> <br /><small>Member # 33</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,6,13,0,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 06, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">01:00 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Gluttony.<BR>Greed.<BR>Pride.<BR>Wrath.<BR>Sloth.<BR>Lust.<BR>Envy.<P>Just try to fit these in and you'll see how the world goes round.<P>------------------<BR>"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."<BR>Psychiatrist: "Again." <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>bryce</b> <br /><small>Member # 42</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,6,14,1,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 06, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:01 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Those three things show the "Fallen World", but with lots of different people trying to undo that the exact three opposite would also have to be included.<P>Does that make sense to anyone except me?<P>------------------<BR>What started in Jerusalem as a relationship, went on to become a philosophy in Athens, an institution in Rome, a culture in nothern Europe, and was turned into an enterprise in America.<BR>-paraphrased, author unknown- <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Mythril</b> <br /><small>Member # 286</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,6,14,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 06, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:35 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I have read his book, i formulated these way before that. But is still agree with much of what scott adams has to say, they have a lot of truth to them.<P><BR>Plus he is funny as hell.<BR>------------------<BR>I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Necromancer (edited February 06, 2000).] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Montgomery</b> <br /><small>Member # 23</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,6,15,15,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 06, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:15 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Number 3 should be top of the list...<P>And people are not driven by stupidity. They <b>act</b> stupidly in response to their greed, fear, jealousy, etc.<P>------------------<BR>"You don't need eyes to see; you need VISION"<BR> - Faithless / Reverence<P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Mythril</b> <br /><small>Member # 286</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,6,16,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 06, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:26 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> i did not mean that people are driven by stupidity, but many for some reason act stupid, i have not been able to determine the exact cause as of yet, but you are right much is in response to certain stimuli.<P>------------------<BR>I am not responsible for the stupidity of other people.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Necromancer (edited February 06, 2000).] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>bryce</b> <br /><small>Member # 42</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,6,18,4,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 06, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:04 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Forget that-I meant what I 1st posted here.<P>------------------<BR>What started in Jerusalem as a relationship, went on to become a philosophy in Athens, an institution in Rome, a culture in nothern Europe, and was turned into an enterprise in America.<BR>-paraphrased, author unknown-<P>[This message has been edited by bryce (edited February 06, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by bryce (edited February 06, 2000).] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,7,3,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 07, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">03:35 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It seems to me that the principle of utility as expressed by that Bentham guy makes much more sense than any list of various bad qualities of people. (Forgive the jargon, but midterms, etc.)<P>In other words, people act to maximize their pleasure and minimize their pain.<P>By no means as universal as that aforementioned Bentham guy might have liked, but a good starting point.<P>------------------<BR>"20th Century, go to sleep."<BR>--<BR>R.E.M.<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Aban Rune</b> <br /><small>Member # 226</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,7,16,34,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 07, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">04:34 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I remember studying something about the hierarchy of human response. I have no idea what it was called or who formulated this theory though. I think it fits in well with Sol System's comment about maximizing pleasure while minimizing pain.<P>The theory was very basic and was organized into a pyramid. Basically, our day to day concerns take up only the very top of this pyramid and are subserviant to everything below it. It stated that basic needs override superficial ones. In other words, people will not worry about what to have for dinner tonight if they find they can no longer breathe! Nor will they be terribly worried about sex if they are starving.<P>I have no idea if this adds anything to the conversation or not. What I'm basically saying is that generally, survival instincts will always kick in first and foremost. Of course, as intelligent, conscious creatures, we have the ability to override these instincts based on moral or other ground. Only animals act purely and unthinkingly on instinct.<P>------------------<BR>"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx<P>Aban's Illustration <A HREF="http://www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore" TARGET=_blank>www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore<P></A> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Aban Rune (edited February 07, 2000).] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>First of Two</b> <br /><small>Member # 16</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,7,18,34,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 07, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:34 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I can narrow it down to one thing.<P>Insanity.<P>Human beings are insane. Every single one of them. Now, the type of illness and the severity differes throughout the species, but they're all insane.<P>They're selfish, arrogant, self-destructive, vain, foresight-impaired sensation junkies.<P>If they weren't so damned amusing sometimes, I wouldn't want anything to do with them.<P> <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><BR><P>------------------<BR>Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson<P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Omega</b> <br /><small>Member # 91</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,7,19,5,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 07, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:05 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> And on top of that, when someone pops up that can actually ANALYZE their own insanity, the rest of us call them a philosopher. <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><P>------------------<BR>You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Jeff Raven</b> <br /><small>Member # 20</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,7,19,38,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 07, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">07:38 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Hey! At least most of us are housebroken.<P>------------------<BR>"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it through not dying."<BR>Woody Allen <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Sol System</b> <br /><small>Member # 30</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,7,21,34,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 07, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">09:34 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Actually, I've found that most people are pretty decent chaps if you give them half a chance.<P>------------------<BR>"20th Century, go to sleep."<BR>--<BR>R.E.M.<BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>First of Two</b> <br /><small>Member # 16</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,7,22,26,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 07, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">10:26 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, yes, there are a good number who will treat you decently enough if you approach them without making any sudden movements. But others will charge you just for making eye contact.<BR>Some of them, though... they mess their nests, they neglect their young, they club each other over the heads at the SLIGHTEST provocation.<BR>They tend to have a herd mentality, gathering for comfort and mutual protection, but stampeding when afraid, easily shepherded but prone to losses from predation.<BR>Occasionally, you can find a few engaged in cooperative ventures... provided they can keep the more destructive ones at bay.<BR>Rather difficult to train, they tend to revert to old habits as soon as you're not looking.<P>And the less said about their mating rituals, the better.<P>------------------<BR>Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson<P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Aban Rune</b> <br /><small>Member # 226</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,8,8,38,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 08, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">08:38 AM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> First: I'm sorry but I can't help but notice the continued use of the words "they" and "their". If everybody is so bad, don't you mean "we" and "our"?<P>Lump yourself in there pal.<P>And while I will admit to bouts of all those things you mentioned among myself and those close to me, I certainly wouldn't list those things as my predominant qualities, or the predominant qualities of my parents...or girlfriend...or brother...or friends...<P>Now, I see the little smiley down there, but if you honestly believe that people, ALL people (and there a lot of total nut jobs out there) are THAT bad, maybe you just need to find some new people!<P>------------------<BR>"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx<P>Aban's Illustration <A HREF="http://www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore" TARGET=_blank>www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore<P></A> <BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>First of Two</b> <br /><small>Member # 16</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,8,12,35,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 08, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">12:35 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> No, I'm just a dispassionate observer. I haven't 'gone native' yet.<P>Oh, I forgot. For clawless, fangless primates, they're very aggressive. Probably some sort of omnivore inferiority complex.<P> <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><P>------------------<BR>Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson<P><BR> <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,8,14,46,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 08, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">02:46 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, <I>you</I> try competing at a disadvantage against lions and tigers and bears (oh, MY!) for millions of years and see if <I>you</I> don't develop an attitude. <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/wink.gif"><P>[The following does not sum up the whole of my philosophy, nor is it even the greater part. As always (except when I'm absolutely certain of myself), the following is an inexpert opinion.]<P>It wasn't until a few thousand years ago (perhaps 10 or 20 or so, but it could be more -- I'm not quoting facts, but memory, and <I>no, I wasn't an eye witness!</I> Sheesh!) that we humans figured out how to make really useful tools like stone knives, spears, etc.<P>We HAD to develop a nasty disposition so the predators would take us off their menu. Of course, it takes a while longer to adapt to new situations than it does to create them. Nowadays, most of us don't have large, hungry predators just outside the camp, waiting to pounce on us if we're careless. (Would <I>you</I> go backpacking if the odds of getting devoured by predators <I>wasn't</I> almost zero?)<P>10,000 years ago, people lived in small communities or tribes. Everyone knew everyone else. If Yob the Troublemaker became too antisocial, everyone else beat the crap out of him. If he kept it up, he'd be banished. Stone knives and spears notwithstanding, a lone human in the wilderness still looks a lot like dinner to Bob, the hungry cave bear.<P>As civilizations became larger, "ecological niches" opened up for antisocially-inclined individuals. It was difficult to predate on your own kind when you actually knew them by name, but strangers are a whole 'nother ball o' wax.<P>Some folks think manners and "politeness" are an artificial veneer we apply to ourselves to mask the inner, more "noble" savage. That's delusional. Manners and "politeness" are tools we use to humanize strangers so we don't damage our society, something we are all a part of, whether we like to think of ourselves as "members" or not.<P>Others think that since everyone else tries not to be overly agressive, it's to their advantage to act as a wolf, when everyone else is a sheep. That's also delusional because:<P><OL TYPE=A><LI>Some of the sheep are actually wolves,<P><LI>Some of the sheep are really sheepdogs (police, military, etc.),<P><LI>Some of the sheep bite back (responsible citizens).</OL><P>On one level, politeness and manners are a way of recognizing that you are greeting a fellow predator, and showing proper respect, without minimizing your own potential dangerousness. After all, the custom of shaking hands originated partly to ensure that the person you were meeting wasn't armed, but it was also to reassure that person that <I>you</I> weren't armed either.<P>When people are rude or worse, they are expressing the belief that they are more dangerous than you are, and do not care whether they will offend someone who cannot or will not defend themselves. Sadly, they may not even be conscious of this attitude.<P>The rude guy in the restaurant who yells at the waitress, the library patron who "forgets" to return a book, the dinner guest who doesn't say "please" when asking someone to pass the potatoes are all expressing the same sentiment: "I'm more important than you, and I don't view you as an equal." The angry kids who shot up Columbine had much the same attitude. "We're the only predators in the crowd. We hate them all so let's kill them." Nice folks, huh?<P>I won't say that the past was better than the present. Racism is generally recognized as a very bad thing, where before, it was "just the way things are". Spousal and child abuse are no longer ignored. However, there seems to be an underlying philosophy that seems to say that fighting back against the abuse of others is just as bad as the abuse itself. I think that's B.S.<P>Unresisted violent behavior is rewarded. Resisted, it will diminish. And yes, resisting <I>is</I> dangerous. Not resisting is more so. If more rapists thought their potential victim might shoot them or beat the crap out of them, there would be fewer rapes.<P>Hmmm... It seems I have gotten off on a tangent. I'll step off the soapbox now. <IMG SRC="http://flare.solareclipse.net/smile.gif"><P>--Baloo<P>------------------<BR>"Against stupidity the very gods<BR>Themselves contend in vain."<BR>--FRIEDRICH VON SCHILLER<BR><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm" TARGET=_blank>Come Hither and Yawn...</A><P><p>[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited February 08, 2000).] <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#A3B9CC"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>First of Two</b> <br /><small>Member # 16</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,8,17,31,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 08, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">05:31 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Entirely correct, as usual, Baloo.<P>Sometimes you find sheep that think they're wolves, too, until they bite a real wolf, or another sheep that bites back.<P>We're getting a bit deep into the analogy, but that's fine.<P>What kind of animal goes about its business, not bothering anybody until you poke it, but then it attacks with ferocity? That'd be my analogy of self.<P>Ah! A HORNET!<P>------------------<BR>"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi <br /> </font> </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#E5EAEF"> <td valign="top" width="18%"> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <b>Baloo</b> <br /><small>Member # 5</small> </font></td> <td width="82%"> <font size="2" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <img src="https://flare.solareclipse.net/posticon.gif" border="0" alt=" - " /> posted <script language="JavaScript1.3" type="text/javascript"> document.write(timestamp(new Date(2000,1,8,18,27,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); </script><noscript><span class="dateformat-0">February 08, 2000</span> <span class="timeformat-0">06:27 PM</span></noscript><hr /> </font> <font size="3" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Well, I think either a Skunk<BR><center><Img SRC="http://www.texavery.com/media/char11.jpg" width=400 height=300></center><P>Or a porcupine<P><center><IMG SRC="http://www.planetpets.simplenet.com/plntporc.jpg" Widht=245 height=204></center><P>--Baloo<P>------------------<BR>"Against stupidity the very gods<BR>Themselves contend in vain."<BR>--FRIEDRICH VON SCHILLER<BR><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~Bob_Baloo/index.htm" TARGET=_blank>Come Hither and Yawn...</A><P> <br /> </font> </td></tr> </table></td></tr></table> <br /> <br />
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