Lets sue knife makers too. Knives show up at crime scenes. Heck, violent crimes have been committed with stuff you find in a wood shop too.
Why not sue nuke manufacturers too?
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"Goverment exists to serve, not to lead. We do not exist by its volition, it exists by ours. Bear that in mind when you insult your neighbors for refusing to bow before it." J. Richmond, UB Student
(Pause, smile.)
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"What did it mean to fly? A tremor in your soul. To resist the dull insistance of gravity."
--
Camper Van Beethoven
quote:
RIVERSIDE--A gun manufacturer is partly to blame for the police shooting of a black motorist because it sold the weapon she had on her lap when she was killed, the city claimed in a lawsuit.Lorcin Engineering Co. negligently marketed and distributed the .380-caliber gun Tyisha Miller had when she was found unresponsive in her car Dec. 28, 1998, according to the lawsuit filed Thursday.
Lorcin failed to educate or train users regarding the safe and correct way to use guns, the lawsuit said.
Four white police officers shot Miller after they found the 19-year-old from Rubidoux sitting unresponsive with a gun on her lap inside a locked and idling car at a gas station.
The officers, who were dismissed after the shooting, said they fired when Miller moved toward the weapon. Miller did not fire the gun, and investigators later determined that it was inoperable.
The racially charged case has attracted numerous protests to the desert community, which is about 60 miles east of Los Angeles.
Riverside officials want Lorcin to be listed as a co-defendant along with the city in a wrongful death lawsuit filed by Tyisha Miller's family, said Skip Miller, the city's attorney in this case.
"We think they bear significant responsibility," said Skip Miller, who is not related to Tyisha Miller. "This whole thing would not have occurred but for the presence of this loaded Lorcin L380. That gun should never have been there."
Activists in the case said the lawsuit was an effort by the city to shift blame from the officers who shot her.
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Compadres, it is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season. And remember, a shiny new donkey for whoever brings me the head of Colonel Montoya.
~C. Montgomery Burns
And be sure to visit The Field Marshal project http://fieldmarshal.virtualave.net/
That's even worse!!
Do you have any idea what this could lead to? Lets sue snack companies for negligently marketing and selling food that has fat in it, something that could raise cholesterol... Or heck, lets sue restaurants for serving food that someone might choke on!! Cars kill people, lets sue Ford and GM for selling machines that could kill innocent victims...
Utterly disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!!
*has some seizures and faints*
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"Goverment exists to serve, not to lead. We do not exist by its volition, it exists by ours. Bear that in mind when you insult your neighbors for refusing to bow before it." J. Richmond, UB Student
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Death before Dishonor!
However Dishonor has
quite a disputed defintion.
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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore
Not to mention that State have a justice system that let O.J. Simpson walked away like a clean piece of paper, and ruled some cops innocent for shooting a African American for 40 times.
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You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
But the fact that he's a African American just made the entire case that much more......"interesting", because in this case rasicm can also be one of the cause.
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You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
...nevermind.....
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"Life's a bitch, then you die"
-USS Vanderbilt, Vanderbuilt Class starship
Either that or it's just a made up story after the event to try and justify what they did.
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Go to a dark place. Take a friend. Have him walk into the shadows and pull something (the nature of which you can't know in advance) out of his pocket. see if you can imediately identify it from 20 or more feet away. Remember that you have only 1 second to do so (because if it were a gun, that's about how long it would take him to level and fire at you.)
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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
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You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
Sick and reprehensible as many gun manufacturers are, no one from the manufacturer forced that gun into her hands, and no one made her fumble for the weapon when the police officers tried to wake her up and find out of she was alright. Personally, I commend the police for taking the time to check on an apparently stranded and unresponsive motorist. Far too often we hear about the police not having the time or the initiative to help the common citizen, but the officers in question apparently did. Its just too bad that they were fired for doing their jobs.
Memo to self - don't pull gun on cops when they knock.
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Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
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You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
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Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
As for the lawsuit with that woman. I agree that the lawsuit with the gun manufacturer is totally ludicrous. And yes, I believe that it was an attempt to shift blame from the officers who killed her.
As for whether the officers should have been fired, yes, I believe so. This is a definite case of poor judgement causing a death of an human being. Just like Diallo. And just like that kid who got shot after getting lost on a way to a party.
Here is what all this boils down to: Great powers DEMAND Great Responsibilities. And when you have the power to determine life or death, you must have an EXTREME sense of judgement in order to know what is the proper and right thing to do while making sure no one is fatally injured as a result.
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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."
[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited April 16, 2000).]
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"No children have ever meddled with the Republican Party and have lived to tell about it." Sideshow Bob
Keep in mind that I believe that these incidents are totally independant of gun-control. We're talking about cases where poor judgement resulted in the deaths of (not so) innocent people. They never deserved to die. Maybe that lady was going to put the gun aside while addressing the officers. Did the Officers have their guns drawn at the time? What about Diallo? Did he know English? Did he understand the officers? Was he trying to get ID to show to the officers who he was?
Finally that kid. Why didn't the owner simply shut the door? Why did he have to shoot him when he was on the sidewalk?
Great Powers DEMAND Great Responsibilities.
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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."
This all reportedly occurred in the space of several seconds. Therefore, the police probably didn't have much time to step back and subject the situation to deep analysis. They directed her to drop the gun and she did not. The bottom line here is that when the officers knocked the woman held up a gun, and the officers felt under threat. If you don't want to get shot, don't hold up a gun! Keep your hands away from the gun!
I respect the opinions of others, but let's try placing the same great responsibility that those in authority have upon the rest of us. Just as the police do not possess the authority or right to brazenly walk around with guns drawn for no reason, neither does the general populace. Having a loaded weapon on one's lap is the same as having it drawn - it is out, easily accessible, and therefore ready for use; the police must act accordingly for their own safety, as well as that of the general public. If the deceased woman was afraid for her safety and had the gun for that reason, then she should never have gone to sleep in a car on a dark stretch of highway. Furthermore, the record is cloudy as to whether or not the weapon was hers and was validly registered in her name. I'm going from memory here, but I don't believe she possessed a valid concealed weapons carry permit, so she was breaking the law just by having the weapon physically on her person. At some point, personal responsibility must enter into the equation. She lacked personal responsibility, and unfortunately paid with her life.
A tragedy? Yes! But, one that the victim bears responsibility for.
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Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
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"Sometimes I wish the planet would be scoured with cleansing fire. Other times I just wish Frank would be."
Sol System
quote:
An autopsy showed Miller had a blood alcohol level of 0.13%, about 1 1/2 times the legal limit for driving. The two teenagers shouted but could not wake up Miller, who was lying back with the driver's seat reclined.Miller also looked strange, both girls said later. Her eyes were rolling back in her head and she was twitching. One was concerned about her health, the other was not, according to police reports.
They noticed the Lorcin handgun on her lap. The Unocal mini-mart clerk, Euri Covarrubias, also saw the gun when he came out to help.
Staring into the car, the three people made an observation that police apparently overlooked when they arrived later, according to the district attorney's report: "Mr. Covarrubias, Ms. Joiner and Ms. King all expressed their concern that if Ms. Miller were startled, she might shoot them."
Police say the four officers went to the gas station after the dispatcher told them a woman was unresponsive in her car, with a handgun in her lap.
The officers spent several minutes knocking on the car window. They yelled and shook the car but failed to wake Miller, police reports said. Worried that she might be sick, they hatched a plan to smash the driver's side window with a baton and seize the gun.
Joiner said police brushed her aside when she tried to talk to them. She wanted to tell them her aunt was bringing a key.
When police shattered the car window, Miller bolted upright in her seat. The officers said they saw Miller reach for her gun, prompting them to fire 24 shots.
Miller was hit by 12 bullets and killed instantly.
A family member who watched the shooting in horror said she saw several officers exchange high-fives after Miller was dead. Another witness said officers made racially offensive statements when family members gathered to cry.
It seems to me that the four officers hatched a plan that was bound to end in failure and acted upon it before supervision arrived at the scene (a supervisor did arrive, but apparently just seconds before shots were fired). In the end they messed up pretty badly.
However, one does wonder what would have happened in this situation had a handgun not been involved. Clearly the four officers approached this situation with guns drawn and ready to fire. And just as cleary it took very little prompting to have them fire 24 times at Ms. Miller.
But then again, we all know how sacrosanct the handgun is.
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Compadres, it is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season. And remember, a shiny new donkey for whoever brings me the head of Colonel Montoya.
~C. Montgomery Burns
And be sure to visit The Field Marshal project http://fieldmarshal.virtualave.net/
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Frank's Home Page
"It's easy to learn to drive a golf cart, but it's hard to express yourself in one." - Larry Wall
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"Sometimes I wish the planet would be scoured with cleansing fire. Other times I just wish Frank would be."
Sol System
Also in the same story:
quote:
"The police were called to a dangerous situation where there was no question that a gun was present," Trask said. "Their response to that situation was a hastily planned attempt to break out the window and grab the gun on the victim's lap, believing that some type of medical and/or safety emergency required their immediate action."It was a judgment call and a mistake in their judgment," Trask said.
Trask is the Riverside County Dist. Atty.
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Compadres, it is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season. And remember, a shiny new donkey for whoever brings me the head of Colonel Montoya.
~C. Montgomery Burns
And be sure to visit The Field Marshal project http://fieldmarshal.virtualave.net/
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited April 16, 2000).]
However, I still stand by my original statements about this tragedy never occurring if the woman had not had the gun out. And, the fact that she had been drinking and was nonresponsive only bolsters the contention that the officers did not know for sure what type of person they were dealing with, and therefore needed to use extreme caution, perhaps combined with force. Heck, if the woman's own friends were afraid that she might shoot them....
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Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
Similarly, the police. If their motives were good, their training is highly suspect. The woman, unconscious, was not an immediate threat to the safety of others. A supervisor arrived (reportedly) seconds before the shooting began. Did the officers on the scene advise him of their plan? Did they see him coming and decide to "impress" him?
As far as the number of rounds fired, there were four officers, and that amounts to six shots fired per officer. It sounds like a lot of bullets (and it is), but if each of several officers started firing as soon as they believed she might be preparing to fire, and were poorly trained (sounds like "pray and spray" tactics to me), it would be quite easy for them to put that many bullets downrange in a second or two. With a modern semiautomatic pistol, it's quite easy to, fire too many rounds if you're "excited". It's real easy to lose count of the shots fired, and easy to "double-squeeze". That's why "New York's Finest" are issued Glocks with extra-strong trigger springs -- to reduce the odds of unintended "extra" shots being fired. Still, poor training.
The fact that the woman's gun was inoperable is irrellevant. The officers, however foolish, could not have known this in advance. Otherwise, they would certainly not have fired. It only heightens the senselessness of this trajedy.
If the eyewitness accounts can be believed (and I have heard nothing to cast these accounts in doubt), the officers acted in truly reprehensible fashion after the shooting was over. This is also a matter of not only poor training, but is very likely symptomatic of other problems in that police department. If it comes to a lawsuit, there will be not only dismissals, but jail or prison time for some of those involved. If not, the judge who presides over the case will be plainly sending a message to the community: "The cops are more important than you. Deal with it."
Bad news for all concerned.
--Baloo
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"Just because you know you're right doesn't mean you are."
-- Me
http://www.geocities.com/cyrano_jones.geo/
[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited April 17, 2000).]
That the gun did not work becomes more relevant in light if this quote (from the 27 June piece, but earlier in the story....not posted before due to the length of the story).
quote:
She was shot and killed by the four officers, some of whom said she reached for the gun. They also said Miller fired first, but they later recanted....
In an effort to shift the blame away from their bad plan and the results, the police officers distorted the facts and initially claimed she fired first.
The truth it seems is a foreign country
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Compadres, it is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season. And remember, a shiny new donkey for whoever brings me the head of Colonel Montoya.
~C. Montgomery Burns
And be sure to visit The Field Marshal project http://fieldmarshal.virtualave.net/
Perhaps they believed she DID fire first. I point to the 'shot heard round the world' in Lexington and Concord. Or better, the story of the last battle between Arthur's and Mordred's knights.
(Nobody knows who fired first at Concord.
At the last battle, so the story goes, terms for peace were being drawn up, when one man saw an adder poised to strike, drew his sword to kill it, and thusly started the final massacre.)
One trigger-happy fool, or a simple accident, in an already tense situation, and EVERYBODY believes they're being fired upon. And when you're fired upon, you react accordingly. In a real firefight, this means putting as many bullets into your opponent as possible. In a mistake... it means this.
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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
However, I dearly hope that my local police officers can tell the difference between waking up, reaching for a gun, or firing. I'm not blaming the officers involved. Not directly, anyway. I doubt I would react any better. But you see, that's why I'm not a policeman. Our police should be the best damn decision makers around, and these gentlemen obviously aren't. They should not be on the force.
Yes, it was a mistake. So what? Our standards for the police should be set very, very high.
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"What did it mean to fly? A tremor in your soul. To resist the dull insistance of gravity."
--
Camper Van Beethoven