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"One more day before the storm
At the barricades of freedom!
When our ranks begin to form
Will you take your place with me?"
--Enjolras, "One Day More," Les Miserables

 

(No offense, Ziyal. I'm a Catholic myself)

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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

 

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June is National Accordion Awareness Month.
"People are buried however they choose to be, apparently. Unless you've never written your will, in which case your body is shipped to Meltakron V and reanimated to serve as a robot in their yttrium mines." - Simon Sizer
 

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"To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, American Statesman and Author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)

 

Tsk, eh?

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"I can't believe we're actually gonna meet Guru Lou. Everyone says he's the wisest man in the universe. He's sensitive, creative, has a great sense of humour, and he's a really smooth dancer. *giggles*"
"You're confused Polly. We're not meeting Paul Newman."
- Polly & Speedy; Samurai Pizza Cats
 

Two of my other friends have seen their past lifes as well, both had about 6 that they remember.

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"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

 

In all seriousness...
I believe I will give the same answer as the many generations of computer in Asimov's famous story, "The Last Question." It's the only answer that any human using only observational and deductive reasoning can give:

"There is insufficient data to form a meaningful conclusion."

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

[Inexpert opinion follows:]

And the Biblical heaven is supposed to be an almost indescribably good place to be. One theory is that for every activity on earth that feels good, there is a heavenly analogue without unpleasant side effects.

Some facetious (but possible) examples:
Golf, f'rinstance, just might be a contact sport. Sugar, fat, and salt will all be good for you. Although there will be no marriage in heaven, marriage is supposed to be a 3-dimensional, physical representation of God's relationship with humans. Therefore, there is something better than sex, at least in the afterlife.

[/opinion]

~~Baloo

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Beer lovers take note:
Stroh's spelled backwards is "shorts."

http://www.geocities.com/cyrano_jones.geo/

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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
 

Mark Twain wrote an excellent story about the afterlife called "Extract From Captain Stormfield's Visit To Heaven".

I recommend it to everyone.

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But the dead only quickly decay. They don't go about being born and reborn and rising and falling like souffle. The dead only quickly decay.
--
Gothic Archies
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! For the love of God, Montressor!

 

Heaven and Hell, yes, I believe in those very much.
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If you don't believe in what I say or the God I speak of I guess you'll just have to meet me so the Lord and I can convert you.

[This message has been edited by bryce (edited July 02, 2000).]
 

In the Hindu Religion, who you become reincarnated as depends on your past life. In my World religions Class, mention was made of a rich man who was so mean and evil to everyone that when he died, he was reincarnated as a Chili Pepper!!!

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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."

 

My belief in reincarnation has nothing to do with religion.

So what happened was, I picked up the book What Dreams May Come by Richard Matheson while strolling down the "M" asle in my local library (because I had seen the movie and liked it a lot). What I basically got was an exploration of the afterlife in fiction form based on the author's research, so that got me interested on this topic. Then I came across three books by psychiatrist Dr. Brian Weiss, who first came to believe in(or rather, "proved," as well as he can) reincarnation when one patient, during hypnosis, went back to many different past lives for the source of her phobias. I said "proved" because his patient during hypnosis said things that she couldn't possibly have known, such as how to make butter from scratch, some very philosophical explanations of the afterlife, and something about the doctor's dead first child whose existence was known only to himself, his wife, and his doctor. His first book is a detailed account of how he came to believe in reincarnation while treating this one patient. The second book has many more cases of how chronic pains and phobias were cured after finding their roots in past lives, as well as a script for "relaxation and regression tape" that helps you to remember past lives (which I intend to try). The third one is an account of how he discovered that two of his patients who never met each other were soul mates through their corresponding past lives.

Reincarnation, as some wise people on "the other end" explained to Dr. Weiss through his patients, allows souls to learn lessons about human relationship--that is basically it. The purpose of each life is to learn a lesson: for example, to trust others, not to let anger or fear gain control, etc. The most important thing about human relationships is Love; love connects souls across lifetimes. I think the belief is that all souls reincarnate into humans, for there's no mention of otherwise. This is also why it is wrong to end our own lives or lives of others, because they need to live their lives to the end to learn their lessons. There IS something similar to karma, though. One interesting note: the same people told the doctor that abortion or miscarriage involves a consent (I assume it's unspoken) between the mother and the soul of the child, and the soul can come in and out of the fetus's body at will until birth or just after birth, at which time it enters permanently. Sometimes a soul that is supposed to enter an aborted fetus might enter the body of the couple's next child.

Judaism and Christianity--
Doctor Weiss (I think he wrote that he's Jewish but I'm not sure because he didn't particularly emphasize it) said he couldn't believe how Judaism and Christianity wrote nothing about reincarnation for thousands of years of their existence, so he did some research. I'm just going to quote him.

In Judaism, a fundamental belief in reincarnation, or gilgul, has existed for thousands of years. This belief had been a basic cornerstone of the Jewish faith until approximately 1800-1850, when the urge to "modernize" and to be accepted by the more scientific Western establishment transformed the Eastern European Jewish communitites...In the Orthodox and Chasidic communities, belief in reincarnation continues unabated today. The Kabbala, mystical Jewish literature dating back thousands of years, is filled with references to reincarnation...

When I researched the history of Christianity, I discovered that early references to reincarnation in the New Testament had been deleted in the fourth century by Emperor Constantine when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. Apparently, the emperor had felt that the concept of reincarnation was threatening to the stability of the empire. Citizens who believed that they would have another chance to live might be less obedient and law abiding than those who believed in a single Judgment Day for all.

In the sixth century, the Second Council of Constantinople underscored Constantine's act by officially declaring reincarnation a heresy. Like Constantine, the Church was afraid that the idea of prior lives would weaken and undermine its growing power by affording followers too much time to seek salvation. They concurred that the whip of Judgment Day was necessary to ensure the proper attitude and behavior.

During the same Early Christian Era leading up to the Council of Constantinople, other Church fathers like Origen, Clement of Alexandria, and St. Jerome accepted and believed in reincarnation. So did the Gnostics. As late as the twelfth century, the Christian Cathars of Italy and southern France were severely brutalized for their belief in reincarnation.

As I reflected on the new information I had gathered, I realized that aside from their belief in reincarnation, the Cathars, Gnostics, and Kabbalists all had another value in common: that direct personal experience beyond what we see and know with our rational minds or what is taught by a religious structure is a major source of spiritual wisdom. And this direct personal experience powerfully promotes spiritual and personal growth. Unfortunately, since people may be severely punished for unorthodox beliefs, the groups learned to keep them secret. The repression of past life teachings has been political, not spiritual.

The people from the other side also told Dr. Weiss that this "afterlife" is the reality, and Earth is the illusion. They said that Earth WILL be destroyed by human hands, though not in our lifetime (but who's to say we won't come back to experience it?), and that there are many other worlds and many more souls. If that's not a confirmation of intelligent life out there, I don't know what is.

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"One more day before the storm
At the barricades of freedom!
When our ranks begin to form
Will you take your place with me?"
--Enjolras, "One Day More," Les Miserables

 

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But the dead only quickly decay. They don't go about being born and reborn and rising and falling like souffle. The dead only quickly decay.
--
Gothic Archies
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! For the love of God, Montressor!

 

I disagree with the above but that may be one explanation.

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"Remeber, if there is a nuclear explosion, be sure to close your windows as the massive heat could cause objects within your home to catch fire".

Wise, wise words.

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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
 

Did a little research into what you said about Judo-Christian reincarnation, and found the following. As you all may know the Bible has been checked for errors since the Dead Sea Scrools were found. The earliest the scrolls were written was 100 BC and the entire community of jewish Essences was destroyed AD 68, two years before the Temple was destroyed in AD 70.

Anything taken out of the Bible by ANYBODY would have been put back in in the last 50 years. Don't go off on me, but I'd have to say you have been lead astray.

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If you don't believe in what I say or the God I speak of I guess you'll just have to meet me so the Lord and I can convert you.

[This message has been edited by bryce (edited July 03, 2000).]
 

Something I read today in some papers by Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross:
She talked to many children who had near-death experiences, and while they were on the other side they all saw someone they loved who had died. What's more interesting is that some saw Jesus, some saw Jesus and Mary, but Protestant children never saw Mary because she didn't mean as much to them. And of course Jewish children never saw Jesus at all. This also applies to other religious figures.

That reminds me of another case where one of Dr. Weiss's patients saw a vision of Hell (fire and brimstone type of thing) after his death in one of the past lives. Then the man said Jesus appeared and told him, "Can't you see this is all an illusion?" And the vision of Hell disappeared. This man happens to be the only patient who reported having seen "Hell".

------------------
"One more day before the storm
At the barricades of freedom!
When our ranks begin to form
Will you take your place with me?"
--Enjolras, "One Day More," Les Miserables

 

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-If you took that broomstick out of your tail-pipe once in a while, you might have some FUN for a change!
*Rattrap - Beast Wars*

-Let the Fates land where they may!
*Megatron - Beast Machines*

 

I have heard a similar story about Hell and Jesus. The story is the same, but after waking up and realizing it was an illusion the person repents and becomes a Christian.

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If you don't believe in what I say or the God I speak of I guess you'll just have to meet me so the Lord and I can convert you.
 

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June is National Accordion Awareness Month.
"People are buried however they choose to be, apparently. Unless you've never written your will, in which case your body is shipped to Meltakron V and reanimated to serve as a robot in their yttrium mines." - Simon Sizer
 

Still, reincarnation. Eh. At least most of the people who claim to have seen God are fruit-cakes. You can get perfectly sane people claiming to have been reincarnated. From, say, a female ice-skater. Who burned to death in a fire.

Isn't their some sort of sick irony in that?

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"I can't believe we're actually gonna meet Guru Lou. Everyone says he's the wisest man in the universe. He's sensitive, creative, has a great sense of humour, and he's a really smooth dancer. *giggles*"
"You're confused Polly. We're not meeting Paul Newman."
- Polly & Speedy; Samurai Pizza Cats
 

A few years ago I thought reincarnation was all just a bunch of [insert large mammal]-shit. But then I got this weird flashes like daydreams about that fire. I had no idea what they were, except that they were very different to dreams. I got to talk with the mother of a friend, and a few weeks later I got to see the full death-scene including going out of my previous body. I also saw at least four other lives, including a medieval noblewoman, complete with the pointy hat (like Dax and Kira in 'Way of the Warrior', but with one point, not two). I also was a knight and a man who would fit nicely in a Robin Hood setting.

I used to be a strictly 'seeing is believing' person. And this, and hearing about it from other friends made me believe this for sure (Please, no X-Files jokes!).

I also got see and feel a whole range of other stuff since we did a few sessions. I've seen a whole lot of stuff I never thought possible. I've seen chakra's and the famous lotus. I've seen my own aura. I can even feel aura's now. Man that was weird the first time I felt that.

When we did the session where I got to see my aura, I was lying on the floor and four people had to put their hands on some kind of connection spots on the arms and legs. While the session was running one person had to go and answer the phone, and believe it or not, but the CAT actually took over. She sat down on the spot where the person sat, and put het paw on my leg on the exact right spot...

I can tell you a lot more about very old cars from which a whole lot of parts were missing, but it still started running, on its own! It even gave more gas when you asked it to do so.
But I think I'm drifting away from the topic here, so I'll stop now. If anyone want to talk to me personally about anything, feel free to e-mail me at: [email protected]

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

[This message has been edited by Altair (edited July 05, 2000).]
 

I'm not saying that I don't believe that there is a God of somekind. I think there most probably is. But I'm not leaning towards one specific religion.

I think also think that it is somewhat wrong to connect afterlife with religion. Sure, some religions say it exists, other say not. But ultimately it is the person who has to decide whether it exists or not. I don't blame you if you don't believe me, and I'm trying to convince anyone. I'm just telling you about my experiences.

------------------
"Do you want to be President?"
"Yes."
"Put you hand on the book and say 'I do'."
"I do."
"Good, done. Let's eat!"

- G'kar and Sheridan, Babylon 5.

 

I found a rather simple exercise in one of the books that helps you connect with your past lives or dead loved ones. What you do is you get a friend and sit across from each other (or alone in front of a mirror) in a room with dim lights and play soft music in the background (I think the music's optional). Then stare each other in the face, and sooner or later the face will start to change into somebody else's (you might even see headgear). The face might be the person's past self, a dead relative, a relative from the person's past lives, etc. The author of that book (Through Time into Healing) has done this with hundres of people at workshops, and it works if you let it. I tried to do this yesterday, but I got spooked when I saw my face starting to change in the mirror. I think I'll go with hypnosis.

------------------
"One more day before the storm
At the barricades of freedom!
When our ranks begin to form
Will you take your place with me?"
--Enjolras, "One Day More," Les Miserables

Although some Gnostics believed in reincarnation, the Church fathers did not (they called it transmigration of souls). Origen, whom your Internet source accuses of holding to reincarnation, actually called it a "fable." So it would appear that the person responsible for putting this information on the Internet is seeking to advance his beliefs with false information.

Glad you contacted us. I'll see you in the fall.

Blessings,

Dr. Moore

Tora: I'm sure the Dr. Wiess (sp.) you quoted is an authority on reincarnation or something, but I'm sure he isn't a Bible scholar.

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If you don't believe in what I say or the God I speak of I guess you'll just have to meet me so the Lord and I can convert you.

[This message has been edited by bryce (edited July 05, 2000).]
 

"Your 'friend' is in league with LOO-cee-fur! Stone them now!"

>"If any thing like that had happened, especially that late in the canonization process, there would be before and after manuscripts that would "tell the tale."

Unless they were confiscated and burned.

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited July 06, 2000).]