Target: The Clintons
A Kentucky Fried Chicken location in New York had a special on what they were calling the Bucket of Hillary - two small breasts, two large thighs and a bunch of left wings.
One of the nation's largest soup manufacturers announced today that they will be stocking America's shelves this week with their newest Soup creation, Clinton Soup, that will honor one of the nation's most distinguished men. It consists primarily of a small weenie in hot water.
Chrysler Corporation is adding a new car to its line to honor Bill Clinton. The Dodge Drafter will begin production in Canada this year.
When Clinton was asked what he thought about foreign affairs, he replied: I don't know, I never had one.
If you came across Bill Clinton struggling in a raging river and you had a choice between rescuing him or getting a Pulitzer Prize-winning photograph, what shutter speed would you use?
Chelsea asked her dad, Do all fairy tales begin with once upon a time? Bill Clinton replied, No, some begin with 'After I'm elected'.
Clinton's mother prayed fervently that Bill would grow up and be president. So far, half of her prayer has been answered.
American Indians have nicknamed Bill Clinton as "Walking Eagle" because he is so full of crap he can't fly.
Clinton only lacks three things to become one of America's finest leaders: integrity, vision, and wisdom.
Clinton is doing the work of three men: Larry, Curly, and Moe.
Revised judicial oath: "I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know."
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Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000
quote:
Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000
Ay *ahem* I second that. LOL what about the one with the chicken or the hog in the middle of the road. Oh, now I remember ... it goes something like this:
Bill Clinton and his driver were driving down a country road in Arkansas one night when the car accidently hit a pig. Feeling it was his responsibility, the driver got out of the car and decided to tell the farmer accross the road.
When the farmer answered the door, the driver said:
"I'm Bill Clinton's driver and the pig is dead."
Well, at hearing this the farmer went into a fit of ectasy. The farmer went back into his house exclaiming "the pig is dead!" Before the driver knew what was happening, he shoved gifts into his hands. Offered his daughter in marriage ...
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-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
A scene that was cut from last season's "Rock" episode, Tsumkatse:
Rock: Do ya smell what the Rock's cookin'?
Janeway: Mr. Rock, was that you?
Tuvok: An intriguing smell ...
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
And let me tell you, that's an awful lot of poo.
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
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Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000
I can't wait until this whole election shit is over... It's damned annoying. You don't hear half as much crap over the prime minister election. Which should be coming up soon...
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"The kingdom of God is inside you, and all around you; not in a building of stone or wood. Split a piece of wood, and I will be there. Lift a stone, and you will find me."
-The Gospel of Jesus, Stigmata
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Oh, fiddle faddle, everyone knows that our mutants have flippers. Oops, I've said too much.....
~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited August 13, 2000).]
"What, again?! This stupid country."
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Come on darkness
Lay your body down on us
We've been calling you for so long now
We're weary of your name
--
Camper Van Beethoven
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Pull your body for a moment from your soul.
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"Me, Grimlock, not 'nice dino'! Me, Grimlock, bash brains!"
-Grimlock, Transformers: The Movie
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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey
quote:
3. Stop enforcing state and federal personal income tax. The whole federal personal income (and payroll)
tax is well known to be illegal; so are the state taxes dependent on the federal compulsory informant
system.4. No member of the "bar" should be a judge. Abolish the "bar". In all professions, replace required
licensure with recommended certification.5. Have real elections, with ballots manually counted in public view on site. Abolish all "campaign finance
laws".6. Only taxpaying men may vote or hold office. The 19th Amendment exceeds federal authority.
7. Fathers have custody of the children. Abolish divorce property settlements and ex-wife support (lyingly
called "child support"); these are bills of attainder.8, Let the people have purer water. A government epidemiologist found that fluoridation is causing
infertility, and published his finding in a peer-reviewed medical journal.
11. Segregate the prisons. White men should not be raped by black men. See Missouri Constitution, Article
1, Section 21 and U. S. Constitution, Amendment Article 8.
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"...I was just up in Canada, Toronto actually. You know, they really hate you guys [Americans] up there? The funny thing is, they think you hate them back, when in fact, you just couldn't be bothered to care. Now in Ireland, it's a different story. At least we had the common decency to wait until the English invaded before we started hating them. I guess the Canadians are hating you in advance..."
-Irish Comic Ed Byrne on Canada-US relations
quote:
Only taxpaying men may vote or hold office. The 19th Amendment exceeds federal authority.
A loon,? He's a dern neanderthal.
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Oh, fiddle faddle, everyone knows that our mutants have flippers. Oops, I've said too much.....
~C. Montgomery Burns
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"Me, Grimlock, not 'nice dino'! Me, Grimlock, bash brains!"
-Grimlock, Transformers: The Movie
quote:
6. Only taxpaying men may vote or hold office. The 19th Amendment exceeds federal authority.
I agree with that. Ending women's suffrage has been a big issue for me. If women weren't able to vote, Clinton would have never gotten into office. And that's reason enough.
Everything else is a little to right-wing extremist for me. But I've seen worse.
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-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
A scene that was cut from last season's "Rock" episode, Tsumkatse:
Rock: Do ya smell what the Rock's cookin'?
Janeway: Mr. Rock, was that you?
Tuvok: An intriguing smell ...
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 13, 2000).]
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"Me, Grimlock, not 'nice dino'! Me, Grimlock, bash brains!"
-Grimlock, Transformers: The Movie
quote:
3. Stop enforcing state and federal personal income tax. The whole federal personal income (and payroll) tax is well known to be illegal; so are the state taxes dependent on the federal compulsory informant system.
quote:
6. Only taxpaying men may vote or hold office. The 19th Amendment exceeds federal authority.
If you don't pay taxes, how then can you vote?
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited August 13, 2000).]
"I agree with that. Ending women's suffrage has been a big issue for me. If women weren't able to vote, Clinton would have never gotten into office. And that's reason enough.
Everything else is a little to right-wing extremist for me. But I've seen worse."
So you claim you're not an extremist? I beg to differ.
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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."
[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited August 13, 2000).]
quote:
So you claim you're not an extremist? I beg to differ.
I doubt you could classify me any one way. On some issues I'm an extreme liberal (absolute freedom of speech, foreign policy, government program funding, increasing taxes for government spending, supporting wlefare programs, etc.) then on others convervative (animal civil rights, various economic policies, dress).
And no, I'm not male shovenist [sp] either. I don't support locking women up in closets like the Missouri cannidate, just suspending rights from citizens who abuse them. Voting Bill Clinton into office in 1992, then again in 1996 is a crime. And the statistics show that a huge number of men voted for Bush and Dole, yet the majority party of women casted in their favor to Clinton. And why? *Oh, I like his hair* {shudder}
Send NOW after me if you wish ...
You know that word sexism was only invented three decades ago ... my words, in fact, stand the test of time better. Augustus even agreed that a woman voting would be too scandalous, even though women in Rome could own land and paid taxes. Just call me old fashioned .... on one issue.
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-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
A scene that was cut from last season's "Rock" episode, Tsumkatse:
Rock: Do ya smell what the Rock's cookin'?
Janeway: Mr. Rock, was that you?
Tuvok: An intriguing smell ...
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 13, 2000).]
quote:
Voting Bill Clinton into office in 1992, then again in 1996 is a crime
Prove that it broke the law. Prove it was illegal. It may not have been the best idea, but hey, there's democracy for you.
It's too bad that everybody didn't think like you, isn't it? If we did, the nuthouses would be filled up to capacity.
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
quote:
the nuthouses would be filled up to capacity.
There's another topic; it's become harder to commit people in recent years, so no actually. That's why you see so many panhandlers on the streets these days ...
Oh, come now. I used the word to get your attention, since eveyone seems to be against me. I used the word Illegal not by the literal standard of a written document, but in the eyes of the people who authored the constitution. Maybe illegal is the wrong term, more "reckless" is. But, then on my contrary, the presidential position is becoming less and less important as our economy stablizes.
Actually, if you wish to continue the conversation, I have the support of several women on ending their own suffrage. Bryn Mawr graduates, even.
quote:
You're a moron.
And just because I make a statement outside the political correctness of today? Well, yes, but what about yesterday? Do not their views, which I hold in consideration, count anymore?
That's shortsightedness, my friend. Especially when you think about tomorrow. How do you know that the whole Women's Right thing wont fall into disfavor in another 10, 20 years? Their issues will begin to become overshadowed, and suddenly there'll be a new taboo. Consider the views of women for two, three thousand years in comparison to 30 years? Then rethink your statements.
I do not wish to compete in a flame war.
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-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
A scene that was cut from last season's "Rock" episode, Tsumkatse:
Rock: Do ya smell what the Rock's cookin'?
Janeway: Mr. Rock, was that you?
Tuvok: An intriguing smell ...
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 13, 2000).]
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"The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
"I doubt you could classify me any one way. On some issues I'm an extreme liberal (absolute freedom of speech, foreign policy, government program funding, increasing taxes for government spending, supporting wlefare programs, etc.)"
May I remind you that Absolute Freedom of speech INCLUDES women's voting rights. And those of Black, Gays, Lesbians, Disabled people, etc. Keyword Equality. Everyone in society has EQUAL RIGHTS. That's called Democracy. Right now, I have trouble believing that you actually support it.
And may I remind you that Women are like all men: intelligent HUMAN BEINGS.
Someone move this to the flameboard.
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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."
[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited August 13, 2000).]
And yes, it may be the fault of the "soccer moms" that der schlikmeister is in office, but they still have the right to vote, as rational, responsable beings.
And animal rights is a liberal issue. It gives the government more power.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
The Constitution is the highest law of the land and amendments made to it care the same weight. So if Crazy "My Wife Divorced Me And Took My Gun, Dog And Money" Mizou fellow wants to try and pass another amendment to the Constitution repealing the 19th, then welcome. There are many, other than soccer moms who will fight him tooth and nail.
There are other amendments that require intrepretation but not the 19th.
quote:
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
Man, that's simple and too the point.
As to the issue of who voted for whom in the last two elections, well I don't know that there is any substantial proof, other than looking at the records of the election, as to if the female vote:
As to the general intelligence of the population as a whole, well I can't speak to that save only to say that if the populace of the US were brighter than it is, we would have a better choice at the polls than Gore or Dubya Bush.
However, universal sufferage allows politics of the lowest common denominator. The elections are a media circus with bright lights and glowing speeches for the masses who could care less about a real issues.
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Oh, fiddle faddle, everyone knows that our mutants have flippers. Oops, I've said too much.....
~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited August 14, 2000).]
quote:
May I remind you that Absolute Freedom of speech INCLUDES women's voting rights.
Not really. Related, but not the same. Speech and Suffrage are two different things. As freedom of speech has existed for many years, among all parties, not only in America but in other cultures, truly universal suffrage has not. More being a recent twentieth century invention.
quote:
And may I remind you that Women are like all men: intelligent HUMAN BEINGS.
I never asserted the contrary. If the physical voting records showed caucasian males had voted Clinton into office as a majority, I'd be in feminist group by now. That's how much I dislike our president. So much as draw myself into an argument you'll never open your eyes too.
Also, I don't see how you're drawing all these parties into the matter. You figure since I oppose one aspect of a certain group that that automatically means I'm the all rounded bigot of everyone. Fallacious logic. In fact, as a seperate issue to discuss some time, the Native American population is widely abused and exploited in this country. I've written many articles denouncing government Indian reservations (like segregated communities) ...
But that's off the topic. Yes, I do agree that it would be unfair to the woman population to universally ban them from the polls. Whatever that needs to be ruled out to encourage more traditional cannidates. Of course, I say this all in theory, and I would never try to applicate it like our friend in Missouri.
I consider the matter ended. There's no need for a flame war. I respect all your opinions, as well as your arguments, as I wish you would see mine.
I think Jay said it better than me. The more you limit a election to certain parties, the better the outcome is in the end result. In fact, in countries where the political situation is much more serious, and the welfare of the country depends on a leader, there are systems to prevent a popular vote (i.e. a Parliamentry system, where a people chosen congress chooses the leader, acting like a double filter).
quote:
No wonder that girl at your school didn't want anything to do with you.
Well, not because of these reasons. More like because I don't belong to a cult. Frankly, if I asked her if she supported ending woman's suffrage, she'd say "Yes, I think we should end woman's suffering."
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-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
A scene that was cut from last season's "Rock" episode, Tsumkatse:
Rock: Do ya smell what the Rock's cookin'?
Janeway: Mr. Rock, was that you?
Tuvok: An intriguing smell ...
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 14, 2000).]
I don't agree with you (duh), but I can see why you hold that opinion. Let me get this straight here: you oppose women's suffrage because 1)You don't like Bill and 2)Many women voted for him (Just what ARE the statistics, anyway?). Don't give me the "oh, I like his hair" bullshit. Number one, you're jumping to conclusions based on your hatred of Clinton. Number two, that "reasoning" is comes from prejudice and extremely broad generalization. People don't always think the way you do. GET OVER IT.
Goddess, you've said it yourself. It's Clinton you hate, not women. You get a bad president, so you blame the voters. Sound logic, indeed.
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
Anyway, does it really matter who's president? The position has been pretty much relegated to the status of "figurehead" anyway. Not quite, but close...
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"Me, Grimlock, not 'nice dino'! Me, Grimlock, bash brains!"
-Grimlock, Transformers: The Movie
1) This is fast running into flameboard territory. *looks pleadingly at admins* Can I have it? Can I have it? Puhleeze?
2) I shudder to think what kind of president Mr. Cigarettes-are-as-addicitive-as-milk would have been.
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"...I was just up in Canada, Toronto actually. You know, they really hate you guys [Americans] up there? The funny thing is, they think you hate them back, when in fact, you just couldn't be bothered to care. Now in Ireland, it's a different story. At least we had the common decency to wait until the English invaded before we started hating them. I guess the Canadians are hating you in advance..."
-Irish Comic Ed Byrne on Canada-US relations
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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.
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Frank's Home Page
"Antagonist Class Badly-Armored Poorly-Equipped Crappy-Fire Support Tug. To search out new armor and batteries. Because, well, we don't have a warp-core. That is my flagship, BTW." - Antag
Well, considering he dictates law by executive order, circumventing congress, he's hardly a figurehead. Besided, if it weren't for Clinton being in office, you'd all get to keep quite a bit more of your income.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
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Efficiency is a highly developed form of laziness. - anon (...and boy am I efficient...)
A real diplomat is one who can cut his neighbour�s throat without having his neighbour notice it. � Trygve Lie
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"Me, Grimlock, not 'nice dino'! Me, Grimlock, bash brains!"
-Grimlock, Transformers: The Movie
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
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Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000
I'm sure I'm very arbitrary when I say "Women's Civil Rights, yes, Employment Equality, yes, Suffrage, no."
Just goes to show you how deeply I despise Clinton, and how much I trust exit polls. Maybe I'm wrong, and Clinton engaged in the Daley tradition of stuffing the voting boxes. But there was obviously some variable (other than the recession) that split or was altered in those two elections.
If I seem vain, then Clinton made the executive office a Vanity Fair.
I missed this the first time around. You can't get much more extreme than saying
quote:
1. Stop enforcing the military rifle ("assault weapons") ban.
Ah yes, my next door neighbor should be allowed to play target practice with the hand-held rocket launcher he bought from the army surplus store.
This guy makes Pat Buchannan look like a left wing socialist. To be any more righ wingish, you'd have to join the Nazi party.
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-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
"Woman is deprived of rights from lack of education, and the lack of education results from the absence of rights. We must not forget that the subjection of women is so complete, and dates from such distant ages, that we are often unwilling to recognize the gulf that separates them from us."
Tolstoy, on a more objective note.
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 15, 2000).]
No. Nevermind.
I'm going to go listen to Liz Phair and Sleater-Kinney.
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Come on darkness
Lay your body down on us
We've been calling you for so long now
We're weary of your name
--
Camper Van Beethoven
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Pull your body for a moment from your soul.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
*scenario*
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Oh, fiddle faddle, everyone knows that our mutants have flippers. Oops, I've said too much.....
~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited August 15, 2000).]
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"...I was just up in Canada, Toronto actually. You know, they really hate you guys [Americans] up there? The funny thing is, they think you hate them back, when in fact, you just couldn't be bothered to care. Now in Ireland, it's a different story. At least we had the common decency to wait until the English invaded before we started hating them. I guess the Canadians are hating you in advance..."
-Irish Comic Ed Byrne on Canada-US relations
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Frank's Home Page
"Antagonist Class Badly-Armored Poorly-Equipped Crappy-Fire Support Tug. To search out new armor and batteries. Because, well, we don't have a warp-core. That is my flagship, BTW." - Antag
If we give this guy credit, why the fuck don't you guys make whoever's the next guest on Jay Leno's 'Jaywalking' the next POTUS?
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
Now I don't care HOW lousy your scriptwriter is, that's just plain STUPID.
as is "It is a terrible waste to lose one's mind, or not to have a mind..."
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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
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Frank's Home Page
"Antagonist Class Badly-Armored Poorly-Equipped Crappy-Fire Support Tug. To search out new armor and batteries. Because, well, we don't have a warp-core. That is my flagship, BTW." - Antag
Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law.
Funny, I think it is in the Constitution... :-)
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"Me, Grimlock, not 'nice dino'! Me, Grimlock, bash brains!"
-Grimlock, Transformers: The Movie
Uh, that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about executive orders, which he uses to blatantly defy congress.
And just because a man is a poor public speaker doesn't make him a bad president. I'd rather have a man with a list of gaffs as long as my arm, but who's heart was in the right place, to Bill Clinton, who can make wonderful speaches, that have only one flaw: not a shred of them are true. It doesn't take speaking ability to think about and sign/veto a bill.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
[Ignore]
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited August 15, 2000).]
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Frank's Home Page
"Antagonist Class Badly-Armored Poorly-Equipped Crappy-Fire Support Tug. To search out new armor and batteries. Because, well, we don't have a warp-core. That is my flagship, BTW." - Antag
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
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Frank's Home Page
"Antagonist Class Badly-Armored Poorly-Equipped Crappy-Fire Support Tug. To search out new armor and batteries. Because, well, we don't have a warp-core. That is my flagship, BTW." - Antag
quote:
Chicken Pot Pie For All!
I think you need to go to a LSD treatment centre, Frank.
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited August 15, 2000).]
"George (W) Bush, and all his Texas buddies, are sleaze bags ... I shall never look at him directly in the face ever again."
But that's if I don't consider the 1988 speach by Gore to tobacco farmers "I have tilled the soil with you ..." to the 1996 one condemming smoking. How I love hypocritical politicians ...
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-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
"Woman is deprived of rights from lack of education, and the lack of education results from the absence of rights. We must not forget that the subjection of women is so complete, and dates from such distant ages, that we are often unwilling to recognize the gulf that separates them from us."
Tolstoy, on a more objective note.
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
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"We have HTML and images in sigs disabled here. Don't try it. If you do, I'll shove the image up your ass, then ban you. Have a nice day. :)"
-Charles Capps, August 13, 2000
Heck, "Reckless Endangerment" is a crime afterall.
On a slightly related tangent: I find it cute that the North American "Indians" managed to get Europeans (and most the world) hooked on tobacco, while they were being slaughtered and otherwise eliminated.
Its poetic revenge, is it not? It almost makes "Motezuma's Revenge" look like childsplay.
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Efficiency is a highly developed form of laziness. - anon (...and boy am I efficient...)
A real diplomat is one who can cut his neighbour�s throat without having his neighbour notice it. � Trygve Lie
Fabrux: I said Chicken Pot pie for all. Nothing there about 15. I'm 16 myself.
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited August 15, 2000).]
Cocaine wouldn't produce the effects you're looking for. It would make more sense if you suggested marijuana (for the effect on memory) or LSD (for obvious reasons).
You can't do anything right, can you?
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Frank's Home Page
"I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
You say that speech and suffrage are two different things, that women can have the right to free speech, but not the right to vote. Voting is a way to express free speech. If one were to take away women's right to vote, then women's right to free speech won't matter. Why bother listening to a woman who doesn't have the right to vote anyways? She's not going to vote him out of office, what's there to worry about. Repeal women's civil rights. There's nothing to worry about. After all, women can't vote. Who would care? And don't think that the men will. There are some men who think women are nothing more than baby-spitting housewife slaves.
If this were to happen, we'd all plunge backwards into middle-age politics where women are simply second-class citizens. So what if you believe that Clinton was a bad president. Blaming one group who voted for him is plain discriminatory. That's the mark of a sore loser. (BTW: I think that Clinton is a good President, despite the Zippergate Controversy. I'd pick him over Dole, or Bush any day.)
I am reminded of the Quebec Referendum on Separation about 5 years ago, when a separatist named Jacques Parizeau tried putting for a vote for sovereignity. The separatists barely lost, and Parizeau would say that it was the "Ethnic Vote" that was to blame. So if he wants to have a vote for separation, the ethnic people's right to vote should be removed, right? Same with the US election. Bill Clinton gets reelected. You don't like the result? Remove the women's right to vote. Some solution. And we elect a moron who doesn't give a rat's ass to women's rights.
I believe the rest of my comments were spoken by TSN and Tora Ziyal.
Oh and BTW, I've sent your comments to several friends of mine. I have yet to receive comments from them. When I do, I'll be sure to post them here.
I'm not finished with you yet.
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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."
[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited August 15, 2000).]
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
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Frank's Home Page
"I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
quote:
SCSImperium: I still have a bone to pick with you.
quote:
Oh and BTW, I've sent your comments to several friends of mine. I have yet to receive comments from them. When I do, I'll be sure to post them here.
Oh, pah! I've dealt with hundreds of death threats from an actual newspaper I write/edit for. And the topics I write about aren't near as controversial as what I draw up here. I might never win your opinion on this matter, but I'll win this argument ...
Since this must be the 5th or 6th post, I think my approach needs to change ..
quote:
You say that speech and suffrage are two different things, that women can have the right to free speech, but not the right to vote. Voting is a way to express free speech
Political speech might be harmed if the women's vote were repealed. And that doesn't necessarily mean because of a loss of suffrage, women don't still influence the vote on certain issue regardless of the political era, movements, or views. Woman influenced the vote in ancient Rome, as they have in cultures since. They could own land, and payed taxes, yet couldn't vote; they brought forth the argument of "taxation without representation" to Augustus. Augustus replied "It's rediculous you should be able to vote twice," and sent them home. He was referring that the wife's interests were reflected in the husband. The first woman's liberation movement was a failure. Why? It was before its time.
The Romans didn't make the industrial age. For many reasons, irrelvant to discuss here, they didn't reach it, so the barrier wasn't to be passed for about thousand seven hundred so years. And this brings me to your next comment
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we'd all plunge backwards into middle-age politics where women are simply second-class citizens.
The industrial revolution is what changed woman's position in society. That happened in 1880's, 90ish. And from this radical change, women started working, starting becoming apart from men, and the "husband's vote". This time when the suffrage movement began, it was a success. Why? Because women being a seperate unit in the workforce needed the vote. I doubt at any point in history women have been declared second class citizens. That word in itself is an invention of the post industrial revolution. It classes itself with a time and age that is ending. So please, Mr. Tahna, draw me a reference in your argument that doesn't anchor itself to today's views. I respect the past more than the present.
This leads me today. The Industrial Age is ending. Manned labor and factories are closing down and becoming less integral of the base economy. And thus the required physical labor force is shrinking, and we can see ourselves in a similar situation to that before the industrial revolution; woman are taking their place back at the home. They can now do jobs from home, computer terminals, et cetera.
Of course, I'm heading a little into the future with what I'm saying, because right now woman are seen throughout physical workplaces. This maybe a little insight into the near future.
I used Clinton as one example. A simplification. This is probably more my opinion than a clear example of destruction in American society, but, for that matter, it would be hard to find a president that could harm such a well constructed democracy.
Of course the idea of limiting rights in a democracy seems backward. Though, consider, rights not only expand, but contract with time and technological ages. Using what I have said above, the woman's vote is becoming more superfluous as we move away from the industrial era when they mattered.
To conclude, I'm sure most everyone you e-mail my selected comments to will agree that I'm wrong. Sexist, discrimatory, what have you. But I ask you again, look at the past. Look at the relationships between the entering and exiting of ages and the political views and movements that follow and end with them.
I have more to post later ...
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-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
"Woman is deprived of rights from lack of education, and the lack of education results from the absence of rights. We must not forget that the subjection of women is so complete, and dates from such distant ages, that we are often unwilling to recognize the gulf that separates them from us."
Tolstoy, on a more objective note.
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 16, 2000).]
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Come on darkness
Lay your body down on us
We've been calling you for so long now
We're weary of your name
--
Camper Van Beethoven
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Pull your body for a moment from your soul.
quote:
but obviously denying the vote to women is ludicrous on the face of it.
It is today. But can you imagine, forgetting any political voices or constraints of today, a situation arising itself in the future where the woman vote could be belittled, possibly terminated, in the face of a technologicaland social change? Answer that question yes or no.
BTW, tell them my e-mail: [email protected].
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-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
"Woman is deprived of rights from lack of education, and the lack of education results from the absence of rights. We must not forget that the subjection of women is so complete, and dates from such distant ages, that we are often unwilling to recognize the gulf that separates them from us."
Tolstoy, on a more objective note.
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 16, 2000).]
On the political spectrum, what differentiates male and female? How are they different enough in the present climate to deny the vote to one and not the other?
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Oh, fiddle faddle, everyone knows that our mutants have flippers. Oops, I've said too much.....
~C. Montgomery Burns
Anyone that the law affects and that is capable of making a rational decision should be allowed a say in how that law is made. Of course, this brings up the question of at what age a person becomes a rational, responsible being. There's gotta be a way to test for that, instead of just setting an arbitrary age...
Edit: Darnit, Jay, you posted while I was typing. Stop that. :P
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited August 16, 2000).]
Or are women so fundamentally different that they cannot be influenced by men?
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"...I was just up in Canada, Toronto actually. You know, they really hate you guys [Americans] up there? The funny thing is, they think you hate them back, when in fact, you just couldn't be bothered to care. Now in Ireland, it's a different story. At least we had the common decency to wait until the English invaded before we started hating them. I guess the Canadians are hating you in advance..."
-Irish Comic Ed Byrne on Canada-US relations
"woman are taking their place back at the home.""...the woman's vote is becoming more superfluous as we move away from the industrial era when they mattered."
Wow. I can't even begin to formulate a response to that. I so hope no woman is ever unfortunate enough to accept a marriage proposal from you...
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"Me, Grimlock, not 'nice dino'! Me, Grimlock, bash brains!"
-Grimlock, Transformers: The Movie
Heeheehee...
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
As a cognitively reasoning being, trained and fully versed in logic, deductive reasoning, and inductive reasoning, I have the best ability to apply that data meaningfully.
Ergo, my vote should count the most, and the rest of you are superfluous.
I will now assume my rightful throne as Emperor.
SCSI, I sentence you to... A Boot to the Head.
*whiss*
*THUNK!*
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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
You must remember two things, student. First, that anger is a weapon only to one's opponent. Second, always get in the first shot. Boot to the head!
*whiss*
*THUNK!*
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
quote:
"HEY!! You getcher ass back inthe KITCHEN! And make me some PIAH!!"
If someone thinks I think like this, then you just don't understand. I gave a deductive run down of why I say this, historically. Until someone replies to my post as whole, the matter is closed.
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-Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
Operator of Cargill Conglomerate Publications, http://www.cargillconglomerate.com
"Woman is deprived of rights from lack of education, and the lack of education results from the absence of rights. We must not forget that the subjection of women is so complete, and dates from such distant ages, that we are often unwilling to recognize the gulf that separates them from us."
Tolstoy, on a more objective note.
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 16, 2000).]
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
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"They might be the infamous buzzard collectors for what we know, grabbing hapless space avians so that they don't end up as smears in the windshield."
-Timo Saloniemi, 16-Aug-2000
Don't take everything so fucking PERSONAL. People like that piss me off & ruin my day...& when MY day is ruined, it ruins 3 weeks of about 15 others. Jesus...
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
No, SCSI, this won't do. I have to second Jay's legitimate question which I don't believe you've adressed properly. How ARE the sexes different enough in the present climate to deny the vote to one and not the other?
Do you lean back on the knowledge of men, throughout history, making better and more educated decisions than women?
If you can't motivate your controversial views then this whole thread is nothing more than a finely orchestrated flame-war, engineered by a most formidable troll. And if so, you have proven yourself perfect material of a politician, no pun intended.
And please, don't parrot back my statements in one of your "gunslinging"-quotes, just answer the question.
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Ready for the action now, Dangerboy
Ready if I'm ready for you, Dangerboy
Ready if I want it now, Dangerboy?
How dare you, dare you, Dangerboy?
How dare you, Dangerboy?
I dare you, dare you, Dangerboy...
�on Flux, "Thanatophobia"
Premise: (statement + supporting evidence)
Premise: (2nd statement, with supporting evidence)
and
Conclusion: (statement logically derived from previous premisis)
...it might make a bit more sense.
Personally, I doubt it.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
UM: Well yeah, you're right. It takes two to tango. But guilt "should" be shared.
Omega: Well for once we agree.
Have fun finding a way to objectively test for "rational" and "responsible" though. I wish you luck.
SCSI: Your last post makes reasonable (loosely defined) sense until:
Problem 1: "The Indutrial Age is ending." Yes, but only in industrialized nations that a) are heading into the Information Age and b) can afford to import the majority of their commercial goods, in exchange for services/information.
Factories are only less integral in N. America because they are being "farmed" out to third-world countries for many reasons.
Therefore,even using your argument, women's rights would only be limited in the Western world.
Problem 2: "...and we can see ourselves in a similar situation to that before the industrial revolution; woman are taking their place back at the home."
a) Do you even have statistics backing up your dubious claim that women would depart from the office workplace any faster then men?
b) In an information based economy, women would have access to many more jobs than in even an industrial age economy. Employers often don't even see the people they hire, so gender is less of an issue, not more of an issue.
Also, the decline of physical labour means that the genders are on more of an equal footing in the job market, not less.
c) Its a universally accepted fact, that after the baby boom-echo generation, the single largest growing commercial demographic is that of single women. Women that have focused on their careers, have not married, and thus have plenty of money to spend.
How do you reconcile this trend with the one that you claim is happening?
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Efficiency is a highly developed form of laziness. - anon (...and boy am I efficient...)
A real diplomat is one who can cut his neighbour�s throat without having his neighbour notice it. � Trygve Lie
Well, the role of women in society has change sure enough...but even so, that is a very western centric view. Assuming that we understand that this particular argument has nothing to do with women in the extreme Islamic cultures...and we are arguing about western cultures...that is indeed correct.
However, the Industrial Revolution began a full century and a half before the 1880's and '90's. And the industrial age's impact represents a huge change that manifests itself in many smaller way that have more direct impact on daily lives. One can say that everything really begins with the development of argicultural so very long ago.
Women began working in the mills and on looms during the fledgling industrial period. The 1880's to the 1930's or so represents the maturation of the industrial age, but to describe that time frame as the first entrance of women into the work force, i.e. outside of the home or farm is incorrect.
And even then, the numbers of women in that sort of work did not make any real inroads into the male dominated areas until the 1940's. WWII necessitated that there be some intense societal change to facilitate the winning of the war. As a result, using the phrase from WWI, how you going to keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen Paris.
Consider this for a moment if you would. The Industrial Revolution began in England around the mid-1750's or so. Women got the vote in the United States in 1920 with the passage of the 19th Amendment. That's quite a time frame there.
I think one can make the argument that the Industrial Revolution was little more than a mitigating factor in the area of women and the vote. The era of Progressive politics and the role played by the Progressives, a reaction to the rampant industrialism played a bigger, more immediate role. Women in the United States had for years argued, rallied, and made the general call for suffrage.
1848 saw the Seneca Falls in New York. The Declaration of Sentiments was the initial call for the vote in the United States. Still some 72 years till women got the vote. During that time, as I stated before there are several Progressive social changes taking place. Child labor laws; fire and workplace safety standards (post Triangle Shirtwaist Company fire); action to end political corruption�all of these play a role.
Consider also the role that the extension of the vote to former slaves and free black men had in the movement of women to seek the extension of suffrage to them.
So clearly the Industrial Revolution as you argue was not the single factor in the role of female voting, and should not be considered the single factor for females not voting.
Moreover, it is hard to see the Post- Industrial age as a regressive era. If one believes as I do, that the extension of the vote to classes of citizens who previously had no real voice in society as forward movement in cultural change, the must be a real question how it can be justified that the removal of those rights be seen as anything but a step backward. A step back to a time where women were seen to be secondary to the man (if a women is even married) in any given relationship. Women now have a primary role in the political actions of the state (at least in the United States). No longer is it a proxy role. That in and of itself will not change as we move further into a Post-Industrial age.
Women as caregivers do not give up the right to participate. It is illogical to assume that the influence�no matter how large or small that influence�can replace direct participation in the political process. Moreover it is also illogical to assume that the Post- Industrial Age will necessitate the withdrawal from the political process of any person who has the vote.
If it is safe to conclude that Post- Industrial society and culture will be more complex than previous ages, I think it is safe to conclude that people will want to retain their voice and their position in the system when issues arise that affect them. Not the other way around as you argue Scuzz.
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Oh, fiddle faddle, everyone knows that our mutants have flippers. Oops, I've said too much.....
~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited August 17, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited August 17, 2000).]
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NO, you piss-poor excuse for a flaccid fuckwand ignoarmaus....I was simply quoting a slightly relevent line from a "South Park" episode as a humorus deflation.
*Splits his sides laughing*. I seriously think we need more of that.
Before anyone wails about language and hammers on about editing the post, this IS a flameboard. Say Shik, you have any more of that ammo lying about by any chance?
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"More beer, more beer, more beer, more beer! ARSE!"
- Ode to God.
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"We have HTML and images in sigs disabled here. Don't try it. If you do, I'll shove the image up your ass, then ban you. Have a nice day. :)"
-Charles Capps, August 13, 2000
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Frank's Home Page
"I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
If you don't see the ridiculousness in that, well, I hope you come to the light soon, because it's goddamned childish.
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
Not true. You have access to exactly the same information as 99% of the population. You just bother to actually read it.
Scuzzy, suppose, just suppose, that the majority of people who voted for Clinton were Men. Men with winkies. Would you be walking around saying that "Men voted for Clinton, and that's as good a reason as any for men to no longer be allowed to vote".
You're talking about future situations. Let's take, oh, I dunno, Star Trek as an example. Can you really see the chaps with winkies on the Enterprise rushing home to vote every few years, while Bev and Deanna just sit around and talk about their boobs and giving birth? No? Me neither...
Have you discussed these views with women? Of the non-inflatable kind? Because I can't see them sitting their saying "y'know what? You're right! I work mainly from my laptop at home. I tell my husband I like Clinton's hair. I don't need to vote. It's too darn complex for me."
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
Fine. But be careful of those words.
"a situation arising itself in the future where the woman vote could be belittled, possibly terminated, in the face of a technologicaland social change?"
My belief is that Women's vote is here to stay. It is too sacred a right to give up. Why do you think that women's vote should be terminated "in the face of technological social change?"
Jay: "It is illogical to assume that the influence� no matter how large or small that influence� can replace direct participation in the political process."
My thoughts exactly. A vote is a direct participation in the political process.
Question for you SCSI, how would you feel if America elected its first female president?
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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."
[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited August 17, 2000).]
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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.
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"We have HTML and images in sigs disabled here. Don't try it. If you do, I'll shove the image up your ass, then ban you. Have a nice day. :)"
-Charles Capps, August 13, 2000
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
*offensivespeak*
Dole loses out to Clinton. SCSI probably voted for Dole in the last election (well, I don't really care who he voted for). SCSI hates Clinton. The only explanation why his desired candidate lost out was because he believes the Female Population was grossly misinformed as to whom they should vote for. Rather than voting for the "absolutely better" candidate in Dole, they chose the "absolutely worse" candidate in Clinton. This means only one thing:
Women are either too stupid or not intelligent enough to carry out their voting rights to vote for the BEST candidate.
*/offensivespeak*
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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."
[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited August 17, 2000).]
1. Certain "Feminist" organizations which ignored the accusations of sexual misconduct, illicit affairs, and rape which were levied against Clinton, simply because he was a Democratic darling.
2. The "mainstream" media which didn't report those same accusations, and which told women that, as women, they should be voting for Clinton.
However, this is neither here nor there.
What is at issue here is a basic disagreement over the status of women. Are they inferior so that they do not 'deserve' to vote?
Hah. Women are superior to men, and I can tell you . Go out on a date, any time, any place. At the end of the date, ONE of you KNOWS whether there'll be any sex that night... and it ain't the man, baby.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.
This does not mean that I'm a "die-hard bleeding liberal;" I am registered to no party & I do not vote party lines. I've seen how the party machinery works having spent 6 years working on local campaigns. Had he not dropped out, I very much saw myself voting for John McCain. Yes, there were politics of his that I did not agree with, but given the rest of the choices, I thought he would have been best.
These are all political choices. When it comes down to personal tatses, I don't like Clinton the man. I think he's scum. I thinks he's a jackass....although that wouldn't stop me from running over to Chappaqua & tryingt'get it on with his daughter. Had I the choice to invite him or Bob Dole over to my house for an evening of entertaining, you can betcher ass that "Bob Dole's gonna BE there!"
Al Gore is in a similar situation. While I TOTALLY want to fuck his daughters, I cannot forgive his wife's PMRC bullshit in the 80s nor his bending to her will. I love his running mate--Joe Lieberman's a great guy. But I can't stand Gore. Yet I have to vote for him because I don't trust GW as a politican OR a person. John McCain, though...come & regale me with stories of shooting off a carrier.
The moral? Learn about the person, yes...but learn about their politics, too.
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
And, for that matter, he was getting it on w/ Lewinski in his office! Hello! Wasn't he supposed to be working?!
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"They might be the infamous buzzard collectors for what we know, grabbing hapless space avians so that they don't end up as smears in the windshield."
-Timo Saloniemi, 16-Aug-2000
Plus this world might be a little nicer & better-off if we all got some oral sex around 3 PM every day.
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
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"We have HTML and images in sigs disabled here. Don't try it. If you do, I'll shove the image up your ass, then ban you. Have a nice day. :)"
-Charles Capps, August 13, 2000
Truthfully...you're telling me that your gonna turn down a little bobbin slobberin'? I wouldn't wanna take THAT bet. Go up to a woman. Offer her unconditional oral sex, nothing in return. Watch as she struggles with that decision.
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.
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"We have HTML and images in sigs disabled here. Don't try it. If you do, I'll shove the image up your ass, then ban you. Have a nice day. :)"
-Charles Capps, August 13, 2000
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Frank's Home Page
"I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
My.......
GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He says in his best Jonathan Quayle Higgins voice.
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Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
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Frank's Home Page
"I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
I suppose I could say 'to each his own,' but the idea of sex outside of marriage I find disgusting, especially when its more gratification that actually loving the other person.
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Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000
You must have a handful, meeting people everyday that you find disgusting.
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Ready for the action now, Dangerboy
Ready if I'm ready for you, Dangerboy
Ready if I want it now, Dangerboy?
How dare you, dare you, Dangerboy?
How dare you, Dangerboy?
I dare you, dare you, Dangerboy...
�on Flux, "Thanatophobia"
I, for one, completely agree with Jeff. I don't approve of people's actions, but it's none of my business. They can do whatever they want with themselves. As for me, I'd never marry a guy who's had premarital sex. If that means staying single forever, so be it.
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
OK, St.John...stay cool..no sudden MOVEments...a few more meters & we're home-free....
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
Yes, other prominent officeholders have had extramarital affairs. However, that does not excuse Willie's conduct, his lies, his use of government personnel (Re: taxpayer monies) to cover up his pathetic behavior, and smear campaigns against those who expose his gaffes.
Fifty years from now we might look back on Clinton and claim him to be the greatest president in American history, but I doubt it. Right now, he is the greatest presidential embarassment in American history.
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Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
quote:
Right now, he is the greatest presidential embarassment in American history.
Mmm....Dick?
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
quote:
Right now, he is the greatest presidential embarassment in American history.
Ultra Mangus beat me to it. Richard Nixion!
Those of you who are younger then me are going to find out some thhings in the next few years of your life. Namely that far more people lie then you believe now, and you will be surprised to find out how many people cheat on there spouses.
Zyial: Good Luck. I hope you find the right guy, but if he is old enough to get married, and has been through college, and says he hasn't had sex, he's lieing.
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Sailing the Slipstream
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Frank's Home Page
"I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
Ziyal:
I don't know about refusing to marry someone if they weren't a virgin. If I met a great girl who wasn't, but acknowledged that it was a mistake and truely regretted it, I wouldn't hesitate to go out with her.
And at least Nixon had the decency to resign.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
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Oh, fiddle faddle, everyone knows that our mutants have flippers. Oops, I've said too much.....
~C. Montgomery Burns
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Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
--
Ambrose Bierce
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! It's useless to struggle.
:::gets confused look on face::: What for?
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
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Frank's Home Page
"I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
OK...so I try to inject a little humor to deflate things..smack someone for not realizing that my humor was just that & not a relevant argument...flippantly cite examples of basic human nature....& I'm "irresponsible & irrational?" HWA??
If this is based upon my sexual philosophy as stated here, then that's not fair, man. Hey, if savin' yourself for marriage or "true love" is your thing, that's cool with me. Keep on keepin' on & all that. But PLEASE don't tell me that your reason is that your projecting your ideals onto me without a disclaimer? Please?
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
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Frank's Home Page
"I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
Oh, and along this vein, whose wife helped investigate Watergate? Uh, let's see... What was her name? Hillary something? Yeah, he should have known better. That makes him dumber than Nixon, and that's saying something.
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Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
*ahem*
Actually, I agree that sex with others while marriage is wrong. Clinton should have said no. He did a bad thing. But does lying about that mean he lies about everything? I dunno. I haven't actually met him.
However, if you're not married, oral sex is a whole lot of fun. And, as Frank might have been trying to point out, it's one of the few sexual acts where the woman is completly in control. One quick bite, and millions of men grap their crotches and go "oooh".
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
Better yet, what good things did he do that he didn't copy or steal from the Republicans? Let's make a list, shall we? I'll get us started.
1. Defense cuts and closures. The Republicans under former President Bush had a rational base closure and defense cutback plan. Willie appropriated it, claimed it was a "peace dividend," and then expanded it to such a degree that the USA is incapable of fighting another Desert Storm. Record numbers of servicemen and women are on food stamps under Slick Willie, but then this isn't unexpected given his loathing for the military. Yep, that Army Ranger you saw on the bus might be on welfare. Many Marines who live near me in SoCal work extra jobs in the civilian sector just to survive, pumping gas and waiting tables. Also, except for the Marine Corps the services are not meeting their recruitment targets due to low pay, extended overseas deployments (ask the 10th Mountain Division how many months they've been home in the last five years), etc. Gee, thanks Bill.
Alright, who would like to add to the list?
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Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos"
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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.
"Well, every president, and I mean EVERY president has done both good and bad things in office."
Even William Harrison?
Then there's welfare reform. Der schlikmeister vetoed it twice before he signed it, and he only signed it because someone finally clued him in that he wouldn't be re-elected if he didn't. And now he champions it as one of his greatest achievements.
*epiphany*
Wait! There is one law that Clinton signed voluntarily that I like! Public Law 105-124, signed Dec. 1 1997. I collect those things.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.
Shik: No one can force any ideals on you unless you let them. We're merely stating our positions on the subject, as you did. My reason is simple: I have sensitive emotions, and I can't take it if the person I'm to spend my life with has had intimate relations with somebody else. You can call it "saving yourself for marriage" or whatever, I call it self-preservation. I don't claim to speak for everybody else.
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
[This message has been edited by Tora Ziyal (edited August 19, 2000).]
I reach...
No, really...whatever your reasons/rationales are, I don't much care. Whatever gets your nuts in an uproar, right? That's also why I phrased as a question instead of ripping new assholes. I've been oddly civil on this board...very strange.
On a related topic, I used t'have sensitive emotions, too. Then I started usin' a little Ben-Gay, a little Icy Hot at night... :::snaps fingers::: Cleared it right up.
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
The sad truth is that, as Shik has shown us, for a lot of people it's not very intimate at all. It's just something they do for the physical gratification.
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Frank's Home Page
"I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
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Efficiency is a highly developed form of laziness. - anon (...and boy am I efficient...)
A real diplomat is one who can cut his neighbour�s throat without having his neighbour notice it. � Trygve Lie
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Frank's Home Page
"I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
"I didn't say anything about dating, I just wouldn't MARRY someone like that."
Well, there we get into my opinions on dating, in which I wouldn't go out with someone if I thought there was zero chance of marrying her successfully, like in, at least for me, an internet relationship (which is why I haven't made a pass at Liz ). But that's just me. Either way, what I said would apply.
"anyone can be completely sorry AFTER the fact."
Of course they can. But most people aren't. That's the difference. If I were to ask Shik if he regretted not waiting (I'm not asking!), I'm sure he'd respond in the negative, with a couple obscenities thrown in for good measure.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
Too late!! Shouldn't have said it!!
Do I regret not staying a virgin until I was married? Good lord 'n' BUTTER, no! Am I glad for the huge amounts of experience & learning over 8 years? HELL, ya!
Do I wish it could've happened, say, 5 or 6 years later? I could see that, sure. On the other hand, I turn 25 tomorrow & I can safely say that I've outgrown that "must fuck everything that moves" stage that other males my age are in. I WANT to because that's biology....but I don't make an EFFORT to.
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
And don't use the "pregnacy" argument. If they don't take precautions, then that's there fault. You can't then blame all sex ever for it, no more than you could blame a penis for ejaculating.
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
And keep in mind that today's "precautions" aren't 100% effective.
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Frank's Home Page
"I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
If I could get laid, by a girl who actually wants to, and not like an escort or something, I would. Of course the problem is that of obtaining a consenting female. Damn my brutish ugliness, damn it all to hell.
So, I'll be a virgin before I'm married, because nobody would actually want to sleep with me beforehand, although to be married, again you need a consenting female, and the conundrum that is my life starts again.
I should become a monk.
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
No, seriously...I'm finding that looks don't matterto the right people. Of course, once you get someone, the wrong people want to ride your rodeo rod all the time.
Wait, "girl?" :::checks shorts::: Damn. Thas' a big clit.
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
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Oh, fiddle faddle, everyone knows that our mutants have flippers. Oops, I've said too much.....
~C. Montgomery Burns
"Where's your brain?"
"Why'd you kick me?"
"Where's your brain?"
"Why'd you kick me?"
"I asked you FIRST!"
Heh...a little roughness can be fun. But I don't go for heavy deviant shit.
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
Well, the problem is that Shik (I assume, correct me if I'm wrong) is doing it mostly for the physical side of things. But humans are not solely physical beings...everyone needs to balance their physical, emotional, and logical selves in order to function in society.
I should become a pop psychologist.
("Well, Mr. Coca-cola, the root of your problems seems to lie in your unconscious desire to be free of carbonation...")
(Does anyone think I'm crazy yet?)
(I'M NOT CRAZY! THE IGUANAS ARE FOR MEDICINAL PURPOSES ONLY!)
I apologise. I shouldn't write stuff at 2:30 AM the morning before I'm due to turn into a television studio. Where are my jungle thorns?
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Frank's Home Page
"I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
Once that's out of the way, I don't think there's a right/wrong issue to it. It's just a matter of personal opinion. If you place a lower value on sex than I do, if you think it's just fun to get off when you feel like it, that's your prerogative. Personally, I have to sode w/ Ziyal on the matter, but I wouldn't try to impose that belief on anyone else.
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"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
But, that's just me. Maybe some other people feel they really can't be committed to another person until a judge or a priest tells them they're committed... :-)
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"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
I can honestly say I loved every woman I've been with to some extent or at some point. Of course, I won't deny that a lot of it was for mutual physical gratification. When I'm really truly in love, I don't even think about the sex....which is what's worrying me about the girl I've been talking with of late. Last thing I want or need right now is to fall in love....
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
I feel saving yourself before marriage puts you in a different risk, because you can find out on the wedding-night that you're really incompatible with this person and can't please him/her. Besides it probably will get awkward, it being the first time for both of you, and kinda get's in the way of the whole experience. Now that's a honey-moon killer.
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Ready for the action now, Dangerboy
Ready if I'm ready for you, Dangerboy
Ready if I want it now, Dangerboy?
How dare you, dare you, Dangerboy?
How dare you, Dangerboy?
I dare you, dare you, Dangerboy...
�on Flux, "Thanatophobia"
i wonder what'll be next...
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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.
Oh My God! You killed my thread! You B@stard!
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Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000
Oh, and losing control and power isn't the only reason not to fall in love. One really good reason not to is because it's so very fucking depressing if it ends up being one-sided...
What, me bitter? *LOL*
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"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
I didn't say a sexually frustrated honeymoon always "ruins" a marriage, but sometimes it would have been for the better, if adultery steps in later and livens things up a bit.
I'm with you on the control-thing. It's essential in a relationship that you let the other one inside your armor, as a sign of faith and trust. Which begets the word "backstabber", but that's another mug of vodka.
Clinton tribute, eh? Well well, I saw recently on the news that some U.S bookstores have special shelves for Bill/Hillary hate-books. Sounds fun, if you're into that sort of thing.
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Ready for the action now, Dangerboy
Ready if I'm ready for you, Dangerboy
Ready if I want it now, Dangerboy?
How dare you, dare you, Dangerboy?
How dare you, Dangerboy?
I dare you, dare you, Dangerboy...
�on Flux, "Thanatophobia"
Amen to that!
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
Two weeks ago, I met this really great girl at Otakon...& I really want to get close to her, but my goal was a strong friendship. Yet I keep thinking about her & whatnot--the usual "love" type stuff. But, as anyone who's read through my site knows, my situation is somewhat..um, "unique." Plus this girl lives in Pennsylvania & I live in Connecticut....& I don't have the $150 to go to Penn State to see her. well, $75 to go. I probably wouldn't want to come back, but...well..yeah.
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
Wait, no, that's Liam. He just shares them with me.
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Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
--
Ambrose Bierce
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! It's useless to struggle.
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Frank's Home Page
"And on a wholly unrelated note, I went to high school with Fidel Castro. So there." - Simon Sizer
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
Besides, it's not like I walk around the streets at one in the morning, pick a girl out of the gutter, take her home, and give her a right royal seeing too.
Most people I know have sex with people they are actually going out with, who they know. And they still all use precautions (usually the pill and condoms). The only one I know who doesn't use condoms has been going out with his girlfriend for a year, and she uses the pill. If she runs out, they don't have sex. Everyone else takes precautions.
Besides, it's not like it's a frequent thing for most of us (damnit).
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
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Sailing the Slipstream
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"Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
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"Weirdness doesn't frighten me. Ten-foot-tall purple wombats with shaving-cream-covered broadswords singing 'Kumbayah'... Now, that scares me..."
-Tim Nix
Ziyal: Hm... I'd agree there, except for the afterlife bit. By definition, you can't know if it's there 'til you've been there. And, if you'd been there, you wouldn't be here. So, even if it does exist (which remains uncertain), you can't claim to know what, if anything, is possible in it.
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"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
Sex before marriage? Naw, that's only got a 1 on my PSI (Personal Sin Index), provided its consensual, protected, and all that jazz.
Listen, I'm doing it right now. Well, not RIGHT now, but.. oh, you know what I mean. We love each other very much. We WANT to get married. For all intents and purposes (save the legal, religious, and dwelling-together *sigh*) we consider ourselves married. If I were to win the lottery tomorrow, that would be the FIRST thing we'd do.
So in THIS case, I have a PSI of Zero.
And quite honestly, I wouldn't be nearly as good with her as I am now (in more ways than just sexually, but including that) if I hadn't had other experience in the past. SHE had past experiencs, as well, not all of them consensual on her part, and it's some of MY experience that has helped me help her deal with that.
Do I regret my past experiences? Not insofar as they've helped me with my current one. Oh, there are some things I'd have done differently, some of the women I'd have avoided entirely, knowing what I know now... but that's why they call it "experience" and not "programming."
Oh, other things on my PSI:
Watching naughty videos: .5
Cheating on a spouse/partner: 10
Killing someone: varies by individual and circumstance, from 1 to 10.
Providing nuclear secrets to China in exchange for campaign contributions: 9.995
Watching 90210: 5
Listening to Eminem: 4
Agreeing with Eminem: 8
Stealing library books: 9.57
Trading on Napster: 4.8
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.
quote:
Except you know what it's like after death because you've died BEFORE. That or you can just talk to the dead and ask them.
Oh yes, I had an invigorating conversation with the late Jimi Hendrix, who told be the benefits of using pentatonic scales while in drop-d tuning with reverse polarity humbuckers.
It was surprisingly simple, as I just dialed his number on my 'Bat-talk-to-the-dead' phone.
I forgot to ask him what the afterlife was like, but I guess I don't need to as you so vehemently told me I have experienced it firsthand.
Perhaps you should reword statements like that so your theories stay just that theories, and don't adress us by declaring so adamantly that what you say is true.
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
quote:
Shit, Christina Aguilera better switch me chairs
So I can sit next to Carson Daly and Fred Durst
And hear 'em argue over who she gave head to first.
Little bitch put me on blast on MTV
"yeah he's cute but I think he's married to Kim, hehe"
I should download her audio on mp3
And show the whole world how you gave Eminem V.D. (scream)
I'm sick of you little girl and boy groups all you do is annoy me
So I've been sent here to destroy you
am I almost as bad a library-book stealer?
*gasps*
Or is it logarithmic?
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"...I was just up in Canada, Toronto actually. You know, they really hate you guys [Americans] up there? The funny thing is, they think you hate them back, when in fact, you just couldn't be bothered to care. Now in Ireland, it's a different story. At least we had the common decency to wait until the English invaded before we started hating them. I guess the Canadians are hating you in advance..."
-Irish Comic Ed Byrne on Canada-US relations
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"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
Sorry, sorry.
*goes really quiet and embarrassed* UM does kinda have a point Tora.
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
Omega may not believe in God as a theory, but he (sometimes, at least ) listens, and accepts those who do not share his opinions, while attempting to very calmly discuss the issues with proponents of the other side.
I don't ever recall Omega saying to me "You do not believe, and as such The Lord will smiteth thee" (Or whatever it is the Lord does to those excercising free will such as I), or any such piousness, force-fed drivel.
While I respect your beliefs, you must realize that many do not share them, and may not prefer it if you act as such.
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
Still, we would like to do that for our own reasons when we're ready (and our parents won't freak out about it "being too soon").
[Liked the Clinton jokes btw ]
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Where's the bathroom on this ship?
Sticking "I believe..." in front of such sentances is a wonderful get-out clause.
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
Yeah, I think "smite" would be the appropriate term...
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
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"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
It's bad to say "it's easy to know what to do because God will tell you."
It's also bad to say "It's fine if you want to completly delude yourself and believe in God. Personally, I think that anyone who does is an idiot who ignores all evidence to the contrary, but do what you want."
DON'T ram your beliefs down other peoples throats.
DO repect others beliefs. Calling people who believe in something "devoid of rational thought" is not respect.
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
Is 'Cauli' in Cauliflower similar in origin to the 'colli' in Broccoli?
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
"Well, ya know, there IS evidence. You're just unwilling to see it. Or rather, you can't SEE it. But hey, I can only ram things down your throat when YOU think I'm doing it."
You know, Omega has said things like that. And First could make a similar comment. Or Bryce. In fact, most people here could say that, about evolution, creationism, guns causing crime, guns stopping crime, God, the Goddess, Wicca's, the awful new voices in DragonBall Z. And in all those cases, several people have stood up and argued that they don't agree. This isn't a one sided thing against you. It happens to everyone. You are basically saying that your beliefs are right, and that everyone else's is wrong. What exactly do you expect? Are you honestly saying that the evidence that supports your beliefs is 100% positively true, and that all the other beliefs and religions in the world are wrong?
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
[This message has been edited by PsyLiam (edited August 28, 2000).]
Take atheism. Atheists believe that there are no gods. Therefore, they believe that the evidence that supports their beliefs is 100% positively true, and that all the other beliefs and religions in the world are wrong.
Of course, anyone that believes that the evidence proves that there is no god is a looney...
Tolerance is not saying, "Hey, maybe EVERYONE's right." Tolerance is not beating someone up because they don't agree with you.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
Okay. What do I do with it?
>>Atheists believe that there are no gods.
Correct. You're on a roll!
>>Therefore, they believe that the evidence that
supports their beliefs is 100% positively true...
As do people who worship Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Mike Tyson. You can't not have faith without believing in your evidence.
You can't sit on the fence, and say "yeah, well, okay God exists, exept when it comes to Adam & Eve, because then..."
That just doesn't work.
>>and that all the other beliefs and religions in the world are wrong.
And how does any other organized religion in the world differ from this? Christians believe that Judaism is 'wrong', right? For they have no Jesus. Am I correct?
I think 'Brand X' is the best detergent. This is my belief. I think all evidence points towards 'yes', else how could I think otherwise? If you say that it is not, I will think you're wrong, but I probably won't go and say "Yes, it's the best detergent. I know this, and you know this. If you don't think this, it's because you're too stubborn to think otherwise."
We are all allowed to use our own detergent, and not be harrased for using our favorite kind.
The issue here is not wether or not one believes in his/her/its to the extent that everything else is 'wrong', because given the nature of our decision making, we all do this.
The issue is wether or not one should go about spewing his/her/its belief system as a fact and forcing it on those who don't share them.
quote:
Well, ya know, there IS evidence. You're just unwilling to see it. Or rather, you can't SEE it. But hey, I can only ram things down your throat when YOU think I'm doing it.
I'm unwilling to see it, am I? Why am I unwilling, because I don't believe in it? If I did, I'm sure I'd be enlightened, I suppose?
I Can't/Won't/am Unwilling to see the 'FACTS' only because you and I don't share the same belief system.
I could, if I wanted to, go on & on & on about my faith, and when countered with opposition say that the reason that my opposition doesn't agree is because they're 'unwilling' to see the "TRUTH". Instead, I just keep it to myself, because A) I don't care wether or not you share the same ideologies as I, and B) I respect your right to value your own ideals.
So I won't go and force feed you my way , so I see absolutely no need for you to do it to me.
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
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"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
My opinion is: Live life in the here and now. If you die tommorrow, don't die after having begun planning your next 2 weeks of activities.
Not that you shouldn't do as your religion teaches. Let whatever afterlife/non-afterlife/alien probes happen to you. Not like you can go "Wait, I've changed my mind, let me live again and redo that!" unless you believe in reincarnation of course.
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Where's the bathroom on this ship?
However, there is also no CONCLUSIVE evidence AGAINST it.
Soon enough, you will KNOW. Probably sooner than you'd like, but you'll KNOW. So why fret about it now?
That's enough.
I've aleady made the opposition's case against 'God As Advertised,' as I recall. If you want to start THAT again... start a new thread.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
"That's why I don't believe in anything. It's a lot harder, but at least I won't be delusional..."
You are basically saying that anyone who has a faith is delusional. That is just as bad as Tora saying "There is evidence, you jsut refuse to see it", or Bryce saying "Don't worry. You'll soon all be judged."
Fair enough, you don't believe in anything, but try not to put down everyone else while you're (not) doing it.
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
First: The one person alleged to have died and come back? I can think of three offhand from the Christian gospels alone. I don't doubt that there have been quite a few other people alledged to have died and come back over the years, too...
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"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
There is also some truth to the supposition that everyone has faith, to some extent. I have faith in my senses, and that my mind continues to process information as it should. EVERYBODY has to make THAT assumption about themselves, because without it, everything beyond that falls apart. (This is 'cogito ergo sum'.)
Any 'faith' beyond that, however, is sheer speculation, and will remain so, no matter how long the 'faithful' scrunch up their eyes, clap their hands over their ears, and scream "IS SO! IS SO!".
That said, I will be the first to admit, I DO speculate. But at least _I_ know it is speculation, based on little more than my desire for life to 'mean something' and 'be fair.' It's a comfortable conceit, but that's all.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited August 29, 2000).]
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
I forgot to mention if you believe you're dust then well er be worm food.
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Where's the bathroom on this ship?
Personally, I fail to understand how someone can take solace in such beliefs. I could never make something up like that, and take comfort in the "knowledge" that it's true. Mainly because I don't "know" that it's true. How can one say "Everything will work out because I know 'God' is watching over me."? Bullshit. You can't "know" that anymore than you can "know" what I'm thinking at any given moment (barring any telepathic powers, or my telling you). You might be able to see the look on my face, see how I'm acting, observe other things about me, and come up w/ a theory on what I might be thinking. But you can't know it, and, if you think otherwise, you're wrong. I can't comfort myself w/ "knowledge" that I or other people have invented, and the ability of others to do so demonstrates a fairly limited use of their potential thought power...
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"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
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Intelligence, Integrity, Responsibility.
Vote Bush/Cheney 2000
For instance, not too long ago I heard someone define "leadership" as "the ability to choose the better of two wrongs."
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
Past-life regression comes from a type of psychiatric treatment that uses hypnosis to find the cause of an illness, usually because the conscious mind doesn't remember it. This method was either started by Freud or a little earlier, I'm not sure. Basically what happens is that instead of going to the patient's childhood to find the cause, he/she remembers further back to a past life instead. During hypnosis, the patient is in complete control and can come out of it anytime.
Psychic abilities have tons of applications and fields of expertise. One of them is communication with spirits, that includes ones that lived or never lived. I read a book by a psychic "ghostbuster" about her experiences clearing haunted house by convincing the ghosts they can go to heaven. That was how I became convinced there's no hell or purgatory, and that everyone has a spirit guide. One more thing about psychic powers: EVERYONE is psychic, and some people are just more talented at it. It takes a lot of practice to develop it. How do you practice? Meditation seems to be the only way. But then a lot of things can be meditative.
What I picked up after I learned about psychic abilities is that all of these things seem to be connected. When a psychic communicates with her guide or other spirits, she can simply ask about what happens after death, which leads to knowledge of reincarnation, which leads to "proof" of a divine being. Although my book on developing psychic abilities instructs me to "pray" to a higher being, it doesn't differentiate which brand of deity is preferred, so all religions pretty much worship the same god or goddess or whatever.
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
The rebuttal to "psychic powers" is generally "show me," but to be more open, I would say a better rebuttal is the utter lack of "psychic" billionaires. To somebody SO in touch with the Universe that they can communicate with those who have gone before, next week's Powerball numbers should be a cinch.
Further, there are no, zip, ZERO documented cases where anyone who ever claimed to have psychic powers was able to reproduce them under controlled conditions in a manner inconsistent with that of a charlatan. Ask The Amazing Randi, if you don't believe me.
Pseudoscience! *Waves a Dogbertish paw* BAH!
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
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"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
As for psychic powers, the U.S. government certainly thinks it works. There's a project that used to be secret which trains psychics to use remote-viewing to spy on other countries. A guy who used to work on the project wrote about it in a book. I'll find the title of it if anyone's interested. About 30-40% of police departments in the US have also used psychics to help solve cases.
The reason why psychics aren't millionaires is quite simple. One, psychic powers don't usually give them answers so specific as numbers on the next lottery. But it MAY. In one of my books, the author said she once had a dream when six numbers kept repeating in her mind. She asked her husband, who said that the state lottery had six numbers in it. So she told her husband to buy a lottery ticket for that day. When the numbers came out, they were the exact same ones that appeared in her dream, except that the husband forgot it and bought the ticket one day late, so they didn't get the jackpot. The second reason is that they don't care for the money. Being psychic allows them to look beyond materialism, perhaps. I'm not psychic (yet), so I can't tell you exactly what happens. In one case, the very first past-life patient of Dr. Brian Weiss (psychiatrist and past-life therapist) became psychic after regressing several times during therapy. To prove it to her father, she took him to the race track and told him exactly who was going to win, seven times in a row. Then she went out of the track and gave all the money she won to the first homeless she saw.
TSN: Well, let's see. Yes, I did skip a couple of steps in there, but I thought people would be quick enough to get it. Once you know about spirits and reincarnation and such, there's naturally a question of what's at the end of the road (why we need to learn lessons) or who started all this. The answer to that is the existence of some sort of divinity.
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
[This message has been edited by Tora Ziyal (edited August 31, 2000).]
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
quote:
I'm not psychic (yet)
You do realize of course, that if you are not currently pursuing a course in Comedy Writing, it is in your best interests to do so, as I nearly wet myself by this little tidbit of comedic genius.
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
See what I mean? Right at first I said you guys are unwilling to accept and can't see the evidence, and you get all over me for saying that. Then I pose the evidence, which you take for bullshit, so that proves my first assumption right. What's the point of this exercise again?
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
[This message has been edited by Tora Ziyal (edited August 31, 2000).]
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
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"Incest! A game the whole family can play!"
-Jonah Rapp
As for "remote viewing," this is another one of those things that the government/military tried that didn't work out, kind of like the "Philadelphia Experiment," saucer-shaped airplanes, and "death rays." Additionally, books by "a guy who says he used to work for the US government on a top secret project" are a dime a dozen, like the million conflicting "Roswell Expose's." Whitley Streiber wrote a series of books about his 'true' experiences of alien abductions. I don't believe him, either. Not every rube who can put pen to paper and get it published is an authority.
Next, you'll be telling me you still believe in the crop circles, even though they guys who did THEM came forward three YEARS ago.
Oh, I should also add that you can "implant" false memories in just about anyone, if you try hard enough. Young children are especially easy in this regard, but adults can fall for it, too. Again, it falls under the human brain's gigantic capacity for self-deception. If you want to believe you had a past life, your mind can create memories of one for you.
My father (retired psychology teacher) cites a case in which false memories of a broken arm were implanted in a child after a five MINUTE non-hypnotic conversation. When the same child was spoken to a year later, he recalled the broken arm, and had even fabricated details as to how it occurred.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited September 01, 2000).]
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Where's the bathroom on this ship?
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Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
--
Ambrose Bierce
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! It's useless to struggle.
"I can see a lot of money for you-u
And fame too
I can see wealth for you-u
You'll have a happy life".
Insightful, I think you'll agree.
(He also phoned up Miles o'Keeth a lot, the guy who played tarzan. But that was because he fancied him).
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
OMMMMMMM.....
You sometimes feel as though people don't understand you.
OMMMMMMM.....
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
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Where's the bathroom on this ship?
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
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Where's the bathroom on this ship?
And how about this: a 43-year-old Englishwoman was reunited her 70- and 80-something-year old children in Ireland. Since she was little, the woman knew that she had lived a past lifetime, and that she had had children. Supposedly she was an Irish woman, mother of eight, in the previous lifetime, and she died in labor at the birth of the eighth child. Her "children" accepted her because she told them a number of things only their mother could've known.
And this: A woman went up to Dr. Weiss after one of his past-life workshops and told him this story. Ever since she was little, whenever she put her hand over the edge of the bed, another hand would hold on to hers. There was never anyone there, just the feeling of a hand. Whenever she felt anxious or scared, she'd hold that invisible hand, and it would always calm her down and make her feel better. This continued 'til after she was married, but she was afraid to tell her husband. Then when she got pregnant, the hand disappeared, and she thought it was gone forever. One day, when she slept with her baby on the bed, her baby's hand moved to touch hers by chance. She felt a flood of familiarity, and she knew where the spirit of the hand had gone.
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
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"It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing."
-Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
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Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
--
Ambrose Bierce
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! It's useless to struggle.
Plus, don't you think the scientific community would be all over this? Real scientists that is, not those who still take Genesis as "what really happened", not those whose writings contain the phrase "gnarly", and not those who can't even spell PHD.
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
[This message has been edited by PsyLiam (edited September 05, 2000).]
As for the scientific community, Dr. Weiss IS part of it. He's Chairman Emeritus (whatever that is) of Psychiatry at the Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami. He hesitated four or eight (can't remember which) years before publishing his findings, and THEN his psychiatric colleagues told him they've experienced the same things. He was skeptical of this until his patient told him about his own deceased child.
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
[This message has been edited by Tora Ziyal (edited September 05, 2000).]
I'd be willing to wager that these people were together a looong time before they appeared on TV... Have to get the story right, you know. You never see stuff like this actually HAPPEN -- although this new guy on the Sci Fi channel who 'talkes to the dead' is trying -- it's all about at the level of the various illusionists and "mind readers" you see doing stand-up entertainment at college.
I just started reading a book called "Why People Believe Weird Things." It deals with a lot of pseudoscience, including, I believe, stuff like this. I'll let you know once I've read it.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
[This message has been edited by Tora Ziyal (edited September 07, 2000).]
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Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.
--
Ambrose Bierce
****
Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! It's useless to struggle.
You know, I reckon I could make up a story of weirdness that would be good enough to get me on TV too, if I really worked at it.
I once, just for fun and a break from college work back in '92, wrote a very detailed account od my alien abduction, complete with "all the information I could get while I was on-board the ship" which included a reconstruction of their bridge, maps of their homeworld, star system, and the "14 civilized (star-faring) races of the galaxy," and submitted it to one of those UFO-fanatic web discussion groups...
And got over 300 replies, about a dozen of which wanted to 'confirm the accuracy of my findings' because they matched with their own observations.
Let me reiterate, just incase anybody's unclear: I MADE THE WHOLE THING UP. It sprang from the cradle of my cranium, and there wasn't a shred of truth to it. But people believed it, and some people even believed it happened to them.
Try to remember, not everything people tell you is true. Even if they say it is.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
This statement coming from an Arts instructor isn�t too surprising, but coming from a college student it�s damn sad.
quote:
...it's "don't believe everything you read on the Internet."
And yet here you are, trying to convince us that your half-assed, LSD-Induced, absolute lack of independent, rational thought, late-night TV inspired, shittier than a bull who shits a lot (Yeah, that's right, Fuck tolerance. I give up.) "belief system" is indeed the be all and end all.
If you're all content with yourself, that's damn good. Why are you here, trying to tell us that some woman in Mississippi who stepped out of her Trailer, erm, "Mobile Home", in between episodes of The Jerry Springer and COPS (in hopes to see any relatives, of course), and had a flash of recognition, and was able to predict the winning powerball numbers with the aid of her spirit guide - Elvis, naturally. Of course, we didn't see this on TV or any scientific journals, or anything even vauguely resembling a respectable journalism source, except for the pinnacle of the printed page, the Sun, right beside the article on Whitney Houston and Pauly Shore's exciting affair, for three possible reasons.
1) All canonical examples of this particular trait are kept secret by all experiencees, in hopes that someday they can combine and form a human psychic wall capable of converting the world into Psychic-ianity (WTF would it be called), and at the very least, locate Elvis.
2) She did infact win the powerball, but had to spend the money on bail for her pa, bruther, and 'er maw. And the two fathers of her four children.
3) And lastly, we could be in the dark about it due to the fact that she is indeed Psychic and used her powers for good, not evil, and joined the
"Psychic Friends / Wet, Sweaty Phone Sex" Infomercials, which air at 2:30am, and nobody in their right mind would be concious enough to see it. Of course, if they did, they'd get the "Authentic" Psychic reading they were advertised for $45.13/Minute, and whose precious questions are answered with responses no more specific than "I feel that you are....Human, and judging by your name, a female. Please Hold."
*Insert Snappy Kenny G Tune Here*
"Thank you for holding. Your children - "
"I don't have children."
"Please hold."
"Thank you for holding, big boy. Show me right where you want me to put it, I'm your skanky ho tonight."
"Um, I'm confused."
"Oh, Please Hold."
That's one belief system I gotta get me into. I don't see any reason why that can't be anything BUT the absolute truth and be all and end all of anything!
Where's the sign-up sheet?
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"What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad."
- Dave Barry
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited September 07, 2000).]
Xentrick: Oh, now it's my fault to quote somebody. What? A college student can't be an artist? A college student can't prefer right-brained thinking to left-brained thinking (or rather, a balanced thinking)? What's the problem?
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"Poetic souls delight in prose insane."
--Lord Byron
[This message has been edited by Tora Ziyal (edited September 08, 2000).]
"learning" implies "knowledge"
"knowledge" implies logic, facts, etc.
To hold that science as a whole is just a matter of public opinion polls is to give in to astrology, palmistry, and whatever New Age delusion is this season's fad (ear-candles? magnetic shoe inserts?)
pathetic.
Creative Writing major, poet, artist. (Right-brain)
Scientist, logical philosopher, gamer (Left-brain)
I've got it on the ball, honey.
I've looked at it all from BOTH sides now.
That said...
"Science is just another story" is one of the most hare-brained, ludicrous concepts I've ever run across, designed to make people who know that their beliefs haven't a SHRED of rationality feel better about themselves.
Name me another "story" which challenges itself, which welcomes honest inquiry, which is based on raw, physical, observable, testable data, not hopes and fears and wants and 'wouldn't it be groovy if.'
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
You were raised as a strict Catholic right? Now, the story of someone raised strictly in one religion rebelling against his or her parents and then believing, just as strongly, in another religion, isn' uncommon. Hell, I'm expecting Omega to become a Budhist an about 4 years time.
It's not what you believe. It's how your arguing. It's just as bad as Omega's "The world is actually only 23 miutes old. i know this because I read old stuff." This is worse than "I believe in God because I have faith". This is "I believe in N because their are books that say it. Books I tell you! That have information about people from California who say things that MUST BE TRUE!"
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"Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy