Sol and I had a rather stimulating discussion about greatness and what constitutes it...and like most conversations I've had with Sol "Tangent" System, he was all over the place signifying, denoting, questioning, ect...nothing was really figured out.
Still, with all the discussion of Bush's wisdom, I was thinking about making it a thread on political smarts and wisdom, but that is so limiting.
Which brings about a question. List your greatest people of the last few hundred years or so and what made them great. Who, in your estimation is great and also extant? Why?
*note: if this disintegrates into the general dyspeptic bile of "I'll answer your question when you've answered mine" sort of crap...well I may have to beat someone. Just don't do that.
Let's see where this brings us.
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
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"What happens on the edges of infinity, the never-never land of mathematics?"
-Miss Hodgin
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
Washington
Jefferson
Lincoln
John Jay
Franklin
Reagan
Churchill
Theresa
That's all, off the top of my head. I'll be back with more.
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"Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..."
-Thomas Jefferson
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited December 27, 2000).]
Now really, she was a bit wrinkled and might have been sporting grandma whiskers, but isn't this a bit much?
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20th century, go to sleep.
--
R.E.M.
****
Read chapters one and two of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Show no patience, tolerance, or restraint.
Oh, forget it.
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"Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..."
-Thomas Jefferson
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited December 28, 2000).]
A couple of things however:
Forget the last...you clarified while I posted. The great mankind sort of thing I take it to be.
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited December 28, 2000).]
Why? He taught his people how to earn their freedom without bloodshed.
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Greg: You bought me a urinal cookie?
Mike: Not just any ordinary urinal cookie! It has the AOL logo embossed on it!
-www.userfriendly.org, 12-08-00
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20th century, go to sleep.
--
R.E.M.
****
Read chapters one and two of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Show no patience, tolerance, or restraint.
What defines greatness is more what I'm after.
Was Gandhi simply because he was non violent? Or perhaps it was someting about the public aura of the times he lived in. I imagine that non violence requires to be in the public eye otherwise the iron fisted types would just call out the death squads.
Was it his courage?
Is greatness limited to political / miltary people? If not, why do they get listed first when one askes?
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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns
So I don't know, greatness depends on your world view, morals etc. For instance, -this is not a shot at anyone- if someone said to me that Reagan was great I'd have to choke half to death laughing. From all the reports I have recieved the guy was a blithering imbecile who took to coaching very easily. So there ya are.
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Re: Russia in WWII
"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.
Thomas Paine -- "Common Sense" and other writings that formed much of the basis for the American Republic.
Winston Churchill - pulled together a collapsing country and military, rallied the people, and held off the German onslaught for far longer than could have been supposed, other things being equal.
Carl Sagan -- Made science and astronomy accessible to an entire generation.
Mark Twain -- Author, humorist, satirist. Just brilliant.
Isaac Asimov -- Authored over 500 books, on virtually every subject imaginable. Made an effort to make technical physics and all his other subjects legible to the layman.
Melville Dewey -- Invented Dewey Decimal System for cataloging books. Without him, I couldn't do my job.
Galileo Galilei -- made the first great step in demolishing the Heliocentric universe. Significant advancement in astronomy, physics.
Charles Darwin -- made the first great step in demolishing Special Creation nonsense. Significant advancement towards real understanding of genetics and biology.
That's a start.
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
M.L. King, as well.
Don't get me started on Darwin, Rob.
It seems that the pattern in men that are universally considered great is that they were completely and totally devoted to some worthy cause, be it independence, ensuring freedom AFTER obtaining independence, ending slavery, or defeating the Soviet Union. In Churchill, this was summed up rather nicely. This is not an exact quote but he said something along these lines: "My one purpose is the defeat of Hitler. If Germany invaded Hell, I would at least make a favorable mention of Satan in Parlement."
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"Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..."
-Thomas Jefferson
Whomever invented the Jeep, without which there would be no Jeep Wrangler, which would be a shame.
Whomever first brewed Bass Ale. Gotta love that stuff.
Amy's parents (for obvious reasons).
That's about it.
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I'm the dictator." - George "Dubya" Bush, Dec 18, 2000
Ahhhhh.
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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I'm the dictator." - George "Dubya" Bush, Dec 18, 2000
Sun Tzu
Alexander of Macedonia
Pyracceus
Alcibiades of Athens
Spartan King Leonidas
Charlie Beckwith
Richard Marcinko
James Pankett
Douglas MacArthur
Niccolo Machiavelli
and that football dude from the Radio Shack commercials with Teri Hatcher....Howie Long, that's whoe it is.
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"Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
Jeff - A guy called Delmar Roos invented the Jeep.
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Re: Russia in WWII
"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.
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"Life end when you die. But imagination share with others, live forever."
--Quan, Final Fantasy IX
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"Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..."
-Thomas Jefferson
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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking"
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"Life end when you die. But imagination share with others, live forever."
--Quan, Final Fantasy IX
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I'm the dictator." - George "Dubya" Bush, Dec 18, 2000
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Luke Ford: "What's it like having a dick in your ass?"
Zoe: "Imagine taking your bottom lip and pulling it over the top of your head. You get used to it but it does hurt."
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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
Proved to the whole school of medicine at the time that there indeed WAS a thing called germs and that death through infection was extremely probable if you cut off someone's leg, without sterilized equipment mind you, and didn't bother to clean the wound.
His achievements in medicine and physics were invaluable to the development of vaccines, antibiotics and hospital-hygiene.
Of course, I didn't know the man. He might've been a complete arse when it came to other areas.
That's another problem. As someone once said, Ghandi could've been a Hitler to his children in private, as Hitler could've been a Ghandi to his children.
History can be very narrow-minded and generalizing at times. I mean, do you think Lincoln never got his hands dirty?
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Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
-Tleilaxu Epigram
Seriously, we've had very hot summers recently, and I swear that I'd just die if there was not a single air conditioner around.
I keep saying to people: we should build a shrine to the man who invented air conditioning and hold celebrations and offer gifts, etc. etc. etc.....
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"My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht."
Psychiatrist: "Again."
MMMmmm, doughnuts...
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
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"The purple elephants have conquered my pants! Weasels to the rescue!!!" ~TSN, Oct. 23, 2000
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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking"
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Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
-Tleilaxu Epigram
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"...[They've] been so completely dumbed down by the media, by tabloid scumbags, by the Christian "right", by politicians in general, the school, parents who are dumber than their parents were, who are dumber than their parents were, and all of whom think that they can bring up a child just because they got down in bed and had a little sex...well, frankly, here is an audience that knows more and more about less and less as the years go by...We are talking about a constituency...that knows nothing. This is pandemic; terrifyingly, paralyzingly pandemic. They know absolutely nothing."
- Harlan Ellison, on the Media Consumer of today.
Yay for radiation!
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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
I am not sure where the Sun fits into all this. Perhaps it is another alien, some sort of cherubic Lorien to Tinky Winky's subdued Sheridan. Po, of course, is Ivanova.
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20th century, go to sleep.
--
R.E.M.
****
Read chapters one and two of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Show no patience, tolerance, or restraint.
You did seem to forget Noo-Noo. Now, I'm not going to delve into the importance of Noo-Noo in tracing the German Genealogy in Eastern Europe, but suffice to say, Noo-Noo's sphere of influence spreads far beyond the four plump colored tubs of happiness, and into the very fabric of our society.
Then, you must rethink your theory.
Please include Paddington Bear in your next analysis.
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"...[They've] been so completely dumbed down by the media, by tabloid scumbags, by the Christian "right", by politicians in general, the school, parents who are dumber than their parents were, who are dumber than their parents were, and all of whom think that they can bring up a child just because they got down in bed and had a little sex...well, frankly, here is an audience that knows more and more about less and less as the years go by...We are talking about a constituency...that knows nothing. This is pandemic; terrifyingly, paralyzingly pandemic. They know absolutely nothing."
- Harlan Ellison, on the Media Consumer of today.
And how does that explain Dipsy's hat? Eh? ANSWER ME!
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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles
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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master