posted
Of a conversation with Sol and from the other political threads.
Sol and I had a rather stimulating discussion about greatness and what constitutes it...and like most conversations I've had with Sol "Tangent" System, he was all over the place signifying, denoting, questioning, ect...nothing was really figured out.
Still, with all the discussion of Bush's wisdom, I was thinking about making it a thread on political smarts and wisdom, but that is so limiting.
Which brings about a question. List your greatest people of the last few hundred years or so and what made them great. Who, in your estimation is great and also extant? Why?
*note: if this disintegrates into the general dyspeptic bile of "I'll answer your question when you've answered mine" sort of crap...well I may have to beat someone. Just don't do that.
Let's see where this brings us.
------------------ Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit? ~C. Montgomery Burns
posted
Ah, that's quite the first one for the list.
------------------ Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit? ~C. Montgomery Burns
Washington Jefferson Lincoln John Jay Franklin Reagan Churchill Theresa
That's all, off the top of my head. I'll be back with more.
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited December 27, 2000).]
posted
I interpreted "men" to mean members of the group "man," which I took to denotate...
Oh, forget it.
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
Greatness isn't limited to men, so why make the list "Great men" in the first place?
Forget the last...you clarified while I posted. The great mankind sort of thing I take it to be. ------------------ Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit? ~C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited December 28, 2000).]
Why? He taught his people how to earn their freedom without bloodshed.
------------------ Greg: You bought me a urinal cookie? Mike: Not just any ordinary urinal cookie! It has the AOL logo embossed on it! -www.userfriendly.org, 12-08-00
posted
I think that this is a fool's game. Most influential people, most famous, most powerful, most wealthy, most hated; these can be done. But just saying 'greatest' turns the discussion from one of objective, or partially objective facts to one of personal interpretation. My personal list of the greatest people includes astronauts, writers, musicians, and philosophers. Some of whom meet the various criteria I listed, but some only meet my own standards. Is Raymond Carver great? Sure, in the eyes of many literary types. But for me he's great because he's from this area. And so it goes.
posted
I'm not asking for the 'greatest' cause we all know that to a really cool boxer...
What defines greatness is more what I'm after.
Was Gandhi simply because he was non violent? Or perhaps it was someting about the public aura of the times he lived in. I imagine that non violence requires to be in the public eye otherwise the iron fisted types would just call out the death squads.
Was it his courage?
Is greatness limited to political / miltary people? If not, why do they get listed first when one askes?
------------------ Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit? ~C. Montgomery Burns
posted
Here's the thing, I think Gandi was both great and a total imbecile. He took India Away from Britan the most effective way possible. With the least problems. However, when talk of partition started he should have rallied the troops and started some hardcore warfare.
So I don't know, greatness depends on your world view, morals etc. For instance, -this is not a shot at anyone- if someone said to me that Reagan was great I'd have to choke half to death laughing. From all the reports I have recieved the guy was a blithering imbecile who took to coaching very easily. So there ya are.
posted
Thomas Jefferson -- probably the smartest US president, a true polymath and renaissance man. Tried to get slavery written off way earlier than most of his countrymen, and in a reasonable way that wouldn't create an underclass.
Thomas Paine -- "Common Sense" and other writings that formed much of the basis for the American Republic.
Winston Churchill - pulled together a collapsing country and military, rallied the people, and held off the German onslaught for far longer than could have been supposed, other things being equal.
Carl Sagan -- Made science and astronomy accessible to an entire generation.
Mark Twain -- Author, humorist, satirist. Just brilliant.
Isaac Asimov -- Authored over 500 books, on virtually every subject imaginable. Made an effort to make technical physics and all his other subjects legible to the layman.
Melville Dewey -- Invented Dewey Decimal System for cataloging books. Without him, I couldn't do my job.
Galileo Galilei -- made the first great step in demolishing the Heliocentric universe. Significant advancement in astronomy, physics.
Charles Darwin -- made the first great step in demolishing Special Creation nonsense. Significant advancement towards real understanding of genetics and biology.
That's a start.
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
It seems that the pattern in men that are universally considered great is that they were completely and totally devoted to some worthy cause, be it independence, ensuring freedom AFTER obtaining independence, ending slavery, or defeating the Soviet Union. In Churchill, this was summed up rather nicely. This is not an exact quote but he said something along these lines: "My one purpose is the defeat of Hitler. If Germany invaded Hell, I would at least make a favorable mention of Satan in Parlement."
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
posted
George Benson, my grandfather, who lost most of his left ear on Normandy ...
Whomever invented the Jeep, without which there would be no Jeep Wrangler, which would be a shame.
Whomever first brewed Bass Ale. Gotta love that stuff.
Amy's parents (for obvious reasons).
That's about it.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I'm the dictator." - George "Dubya" Bush, Dec 18, 2000
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