Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Count every vote? Okay... NYAH!

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Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

***Lifted directly from the Sunday edition of the Palm Beach Post.***

News
Sunday, January 14
Miami-Dade ballot recount
By Clay Lambert and Bill Douthat, Palm Beach Post Staff Writers
Sunday, January 14, 2001

"MIAMI -- George W. Bush would have gained six votes more than Al Gore if all the dimples and hanging chads on 10,600 previously uncounted ballots in Miami-Dade County had been included in the totals, according to a review by The Palm Beach Post.

That result would have been a hard blow to Al Gore's hopes of claiming the presidency in a recount. Before the vice president conceded last month, the Gore camp had expected to pick up as many as 600 votes from a Miami-Dade recount -- barely enough to overtake Bush's
razor-thin Florida lead. Instead, The Post's review indicates Gore would have lost ground.

If everything were counted -- from the faintest dimple to chads barely hanging on ballots -- 251 additional votes would have gone to Bush and 245 more would have gone to Gore, The Post review showed."

So, Supreme Court or no Supreme Court... the people have spoken.

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Well, that's all anyone wanted. What bothers me was why the Republicans couldn't wait for a vote. They could've avoided all this.

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I'm the dictator." - George "Dubya" Bush, Dec 18, 2000

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Because they didn't have to. According to the FL election rules, the election was over, the votes had been tabulated, and the time for recounts had passed.

That the Democrats wanted to violate the 14th amendment, (That's what the Supreme Court Ruled, 7-2) and conduct special mini-recounts, was beside the point.

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

So basically, all the recounts would have done was waste time, waste tax money (that's YOUR money, for any Floridians among us), and, as they would have served no legal purpose, simply have hurt the country. So thus, in response to those who wonder why the GOP wanted to stop the recounts: what possible good could have come from their proceeding?

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"Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..."
-Thomas Jefferson

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

And if the roles were reversed??

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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking"

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Peace of mind?

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Peace of mind from what? Bush would be president either way. The only reason it'd be required for your peace of mind would be if you had let yourself get excited over something that would make no difference either way.

As for the roles being reversed, Ritten, they have been. 1960. Nixon backed down, when he likely could have proven that JFK stole the election from him.

Posted by Constellation of One (Member # 332) on :

I promised myself not to get involved in any more election year disputes, but as has been stated previously the roles were reversed. Kennedy and Johnson did steal the election from Nixon. Let's see... dead people voting in Texas, and all of them for the Kennedy/Johnson ticket (ever wonder why they called him "Landslide Lyndon?"), ballot boxes from Republican precincts in Chicago "accidentally" winding up in the river, and so on.

In other words, there have been plenty of election year shenanigans from BOTH major political parties to go around, so the Democrats certainly shouldn't be crying foul now. Having said that, Nixon DID NOT go quietly into the night after the 1960 election. His party hacks worked furiously behind the scenes to challenge the legality of the election. To his credit, he didn't do it as publicly and painfully as the current Democratic Party did, but the truth is there. There are several wonderfully researched, credible college level texts dealing with the election that clearly spell this out, in excellent detail.

I'm not terribly happy with Bush becoming our next president, but that is the reality of the situation, so we're just going to have to deal with it.

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Everything in life I ever needed to know I learned from The Simpsons.

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

From the Moot files of the Kangaroo Court.

Oh, and the Grand Opressive Party wanted to stop the recounts because they were leading and continuing would have risked that lead. And why risk the risk when one can just stop the count.

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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

Why stop doing something illegal as long as it doesn't hurt anybody?

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"You must give in to tock." - The First One

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Nevermind, the point is moot, and, since I am a moderate, screw it. If Bush, Jr. flops, things can be fixed in '04, if he doesn't, well, then the next team gets to try in '08. I just hope my gut feeling about Bush is wrong, but.....

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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking"

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

First off, since when is asking for a recount illegal?

Second off, well the phrasing of that question opens the door to all sorts of what ifs now doesn't it JR?

Third off, your guts have no place here Ritten.

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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Sorry for making the mess, I seem to have gotten it all over the logic here.....

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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking"

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

I was kidding...I like your guts. Really.

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Oh, yes, sitting. The great leveler. From the mightiest Pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?
~C. Montgomery Burns

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Yeah, I like your guts too, Ritten, although, I must say, they're usually not splattered over my shoes ... dammit ... ::cleaning::

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

>"First off, since when is asking for a recount illegal?"

Go read the 7-2 decision. That'll tell you.

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

Hello silly person, the illegality would rest in the count continuing after the Hall of Doom, er, Supreme Court had ruled that it could not go on. So DUH, asking for the recount is NOT illegal.

Gore to the Florida Court: "I say old bean, mind if we recount?"

Florida Court: "Recount you say?"

Gore: "Oh dear yes, we believe that there are some irregularities in the previous count and want to make sure that everything was on the up and up so that all votes get counted."

Florida Court: "Dear me, I don't see anything wrong...."

Bush: "STOP! Stop I say! I'm winning and see no need to recount the votes."

Hall of Doom, er Supreme Court: "We concure. Stop the recount. The franchise must be subordinate to Florida law. Afterall, you have no Constitutional right to vote for the President of the United State."

America: "Whoa, concept."

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"We're just going to have a lot of work. ... Redefining the role of the United States from enablers to keep the peace to enablers to keep the peace from peacekeepers is going to be an assignment."
~ George Dubya Bush

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

The franchise must be subordinate to Florida law.

Um, well... according to the constitution... it is.

The constitution would allow for the legislature, with NO popular vote at all, to name the electors. They could just as easily say, "OK, you have to stand on one foot to vote for president."

No, wait. That'd be discriminatory against those who don't have feet...

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"All references to vices and of the supernatural contained in this game are for entertainment purposes only. _Over_The_Edge_ does not promote satanisim, belief in magic, drug use, violence, sexual deviation, body piercing, cynical attitudes toward the government, freedom of expression, or any other action or belief not condoned by the authorities."
- `OverTheEdge'

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

Do you mean the Constitution or just any old constitution...maybe the constitution for the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks?

[This message has been edited by Jay (edited January 17, 2001).]

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

United States Constitution, Article II, Section 1.

"The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected as follows:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors..."

The legislature gets to decide how electors are chosen, PERIOD. They could say that the state Comptroller gets to pick his however many closest relatives, and they'd get to be the electors, if they were so inclined.

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

Oh, ok, so you were talking about the Constitution. The one for the whole of the United States. That whole non caps thing just threw me right off.

Language is imprecise as you know.

[This message has been edited by Jay (edited January 18, 2001).]

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

In other words, you concede?

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"President Bush. It's fun saying that. Go ahead, you try." - M. Lucinsky, Spectrum Editor

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Yes he does.

No he doesn't.

You don't have to get snippy.

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"...[They've] been so completely dumbed down by the media, by tabloid scumbags, by the Christian "right", by politicians in general, the school, parents who are dumber than their parents were, who are dumber than their parents were, and all of whom think that they can bring up a child just because they got down in bed and had a little sex...well, frankly, here is an audience that knows more and more about less and less as the years go by...We are talking about a constituency...that knows nothing. This is pandemic; terrifyingly, paralyzingly pandemic. They know absolutely nothing."
- Harlan Ellison, on the Media Consumer of today.

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

Concede? Buh??? Concede what? My god what's with you people?

Apparently I'll have to keep my humor to 10 year old level.

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Here Jay, let me push this part of the other thread out of their way, so they don't trip and hurt themselves.

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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Well, the Constitution also says the VP should be elected separately, but apparently that doesn't count, either...

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My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.

[This message has been edited by TSN (edited January 18, 2001).]

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Vogon, you were elected?

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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

After a manner of speaking, the VP IS elected seperately. Each elector casts two votes, one for each office. It's just very rare that an elector will vote for people that run on different tickets.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

::pictures ...

President George W. Bush

Vice-President Joe Lieberman ...::

ROFLMAO!

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I swore I wasn't going to post in the Flameboard as part of my New Year's resolution, but I've already violated that a few times. So anyway, I'll just note quickly and without judgement that having a seperately elected President and Vice-President would no longer work under the present political system. The Vice-President, once the most bored man in D.C., is now an intricate part of many administrations.

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20th century, go to sleep.
--
R.E.M.
****
Read chapters one and two of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Show no patience, tolerance, or restraint.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

"In a stunning development, CNN is ... shocked ... to report that while George W. Bush today was confirmed by the electoral votes, those same electors voted in Democratic Vice Presidential nominee Joe Lieberman as VP ... Dick Cheney is demanding a recount ... "

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Recounts are illegal....

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"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

"It's just very rare that an elector will vote for people that run on different tickets."

And no-one sees a problem w/ that...? *rolls eyes*

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My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

If there's a problem with that, it's been the same problem for nearly 200 years, and it's worked with it, so why worry about it now?

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Er ... about the electoral college or the electorals voting for the same partys' Pres and VP?

Used to be two guys would run for Pres, one would win and become Pres, and the loser became VP, IIRC.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Which led to no end of proplems, since you ended up with men with opposing ideas in the same office, each sabotaging the other.

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"Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Because now we've got two parties with different ideologies in different buildings sabotauging each other

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Forum Member Who Shall Be Nameless. 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001