Flare Sci-Fi Forums: I've never really posted anything in here before but... I'm a little... unsettled.

This is topic I've never really posted anything in here before but... I'm a little... unsettled. in forum The Flameboard at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://flare.solareclipse.net/ultimatebb.php/topic/11/641.html

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

OK, I was talking with my brother tonight.

1. Dracula 2000
2. I said did you see Jerry Ryan... he doesn't know who she is so...
3. Get out a Star Trek Magazine... flip through show him some pics... yep he recognises... then says what's with the Borg thing...
4. I explain what happened re Seven.
5. He mentions 'what's with the implants'
6. I said she still has some implants the Doctor couldn't remove.
7. I mention about ooooh 'the borg' are what we could be come if we're not careful and mentioned that people have already experimented with chips in their arms etc.
8. He looks up at me... and says 'hey thats in the Bible about the end of the world!' (He's done some tertiary religious subject thingys...)
9. He mentions something about it saying that people won't be able to buy food or something unless they had these chips...
10. I make other hypotheses like the Nazi branding of the Jews...ummm, DNA marking... etc. etc.
11. Anyway end of story... SO, I type into the search on the Netscape homepage "Chips, Implants, cybernetics" etc. looking for info on that man and woman who have put chips in their arms and are going to communicate via the 'net... etc.
12. Click on something reguarding "armageddon signs"
13. Click on FAQ... thinking well maybe they'll prove/disprove what we were talking about...
14. Start to get a little anxious... its compelling reading...

OK, I've NEVER read the Book of Revelations or anything... I always thought it too... scary??? And not long back I got in a semi-argument with a Jehova's witness about literal interpretations of the Bible etc.

I'm no Fundamentalist Christian or anything... I just found some of the points on this web site a little too close to home...

and well with stuff like this... It'd be interesting to chat about it... I only basically read the FAQ. The problem is there is something stuffed with their Javascripting... so I had to keep pressing stop and then back to read each next page. There was a final page with a side bar with subtopics like "earthquakes" "plagues" etc... which then twanged in my head... "FOOT AND MOUTH"

arrrrrgh. This all sounds too scary... but read it first and you'll see that ??it sounds pretty 'now-a-days'...

anyway enough ramblings... here is the site:
http://www.countdown.org/faq/

Its not too 'preachy' more 'here is what we can link to what has been said in the Bible...'

Can anyone read all through the FAQ - three pages I think and then those extra topics on the side bar...

just some of the 'examples' were interesting from a "sci-fi" point of view... about one prophet?? from 2500 years ago or something "seeing cars"... or what he would have interpreted as cars...

This is fascinating, yet scarey - yet it explains a lot.

What does anyone else here think... well those who follow the link... If it is true... I wonder if we can stop some of the things from happening!?! Is that the point? I sure don't want to have some chip in me... Borg Borg BORG!

arrrrrgh

ok... go read... and go post...

oh also the 'verses' (bible-y talk) are quoted so - its not heavy in the whole "bible-y talk"?? I don't know if that helps...

Andrew

P.S. in that pic of the card with the chip... can anyone else pick out a 666 from that strange hololettering?? Turn you're head sideways a little and then look using your peripheral vision...

hmmm...

Andrew

------------------
"Yar, a lesbian? That girl had a sex drive! First, Data in Naked Now, then, in
Hide and Q, she hits on Picard! "Oh, if only you weren't the captain..." God! If
Denise Crosby hadn't left the series, she'd've slept with the entire senior staff by
now!" Jeff Kardde - March 7, 2001

Posted by Orion Syndicate (Member # 25) on :

The thing with any religious text is that it can be interpreted in countless different ways for people to prove their own ideas. Just look at all the different offshoots in both Christianity and Islam especially, (but it may exist in other religions too), who claim that theirs is the true belief and everyone else will go to hell. When I see this,I tend to view it with more than a pinch of salt.

That doesn't mean that I'm criticising them for it. They have the right to believe what they want, and I completely respect that. I however have always been a cynic and from personal experience have seen too many people of the same religion come to me and say that theirs is the correct interpretation of the word of god. How can they possibly teach others when they can't even agree amongst themselves?

And anyway, people have been predicting the end of the word since the dawn of organised religion - but we're still here. I'd rather live my life and if the world ends, so be it. If the world does end, I tend to believe that it'll be either to do with world war 3 or a collision with an astral object, ie. asteroid.

------------------
The Worlds Ten Greatest 'Fucks' #5

I thought I could smell some fucking petrol! - Nikki Lauda

[This message has been edited by Orion Syndicate (edited March 16, 2001).]

Posted by Doctor Jonas (Member # 481) on :

I saw that docummentary too, AndrewR. It IS compelling, but it's full of bull. They also said that every barcode in every product has a 666 in the three division bars (at the beginning, the middle and the end of the barcode), but that number is hidden because the bars don't have the translation!

Heh, it is unsettling indeed. But the human mind is so wonderful that it can take anything and turn it into a sign of world devastation...

------------------
Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide, No escape from reality

[This message has been edited by Dr. Jonas Bashir (edited March 16, 2001).]

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Besides, if the world ends, we'll die. So we won't really have time to worry about it.

------------------
You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston."
-Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Andrew, there's a book you'll want to read. It's called "Are We Living in the End Times?" by LaHaye and Jenkins. Same two who wrote the "Left Behind" series. It's quite enlightening about end-time prophecy.

Hoof-and-mouth probably isn't one of the plagues from Revelation. 'Least, not in the porportions it affects the world now. I suppose it might eventually become one, though, but believe me, before you start thinking about plagues, you've got WAY more things to worry about: Antichrist, false uber-religion, nuclear war, famine, giant earthquakes...

See, all these things don't just HAPPEN. There's a specific sequence of events. You'll see the greatest calamities coming, if you read the Book. Assuming you stick around for it, of course.

There really is good reason to think that the majority of end-time prophecy will soon come to pass. Some prophecies have come true in this century. A war that would start between two kings, and grow to encompass all nations, for example: sound like World War I? Heck, Isreal didn't even exist as a country until '47, and that's required for Revelation to come to pass.

BTW, think about this: what are the odds of the Jewish people still existing nineteen centuries after being driven out of their homeland? For the second time, no less? And yet STILL managing to defeat all odds and return from whence they came? Heck, we wouldn't even know the Hittites existed if it wasn't for the Bible and a 19th century archaeologist, and they were more powerful than Isreal. Why should the Jews still exist, after so many persecutions and attempted exterminations? And doesn't it seem more than a little coincidental that their continuing to exist and live in Isreal is required by prophecy?

Just... think about it.

Look for the rebuilding of the temple, and a failed attempt to invade Isreal by Russia assisted by Arab countries (not necessarily in that order). They're two of the last signs before I won't be around to tell you more.

All you guys, do me a favor, huh? If me, JR, Liz, and a couple hundred million people mysteriously vanish one day, get your hands on the Bible and read Revelation. I mean that.

As for the world ending, it's a funny thing: it doesn't. It's changed incredibly, but it doesn't cease to exist, as such. As I read Revelation, we don't actually go to Heaven for eternity: we live on the "new earth". 'Course, we go to Heaven for a while after we die, but then we come back in the Second Coming with Christ, and from what I can tell, we stay here.

------------------
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, co-operate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, [and] die gallantly. Specialisation is for insects."
- Woodrow Wilson Smith

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

And I believe that the things in Revelations will happen in way that no one can understand or think of at this time. As well as no one will know when exactly it will happen. Because of that, I do not worry about it, and will continue on making a full life of myself.

------------------
"Goverment exists to serve, not to lead. We do not exist by its volition, it exists by ours. Bear that in mind when you insult your neighbors for refusing to bow before it." J. Richmond

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

The Bible is fiction. End of story.

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
****
And homeschooling also turns you into a socially well-adjusted person, capable of talking to people without them wanting to ram a f***ing chair down your throat! - PsyLiam, 3/11/01

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Oh, that's funny. Your saying that the Bible is fiction, and then saying end of story, when we're talking about the last book of the Bible. Ha.

Anyway, your opinion is noted. I doubt it helps Andrew very much, though, so let's please try to stay on the topic of end-time prophecy, instead of trying to prove or disprove various beliefs about the nature of the Bible, huh?

If you want to discuss the subject in private, Andrew, e-mail me. [email protected]

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

*shrug*

Just pointing out that I don't see why people get so worked up over it.

Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :

Well, okay end of the world. The millenium was supposed to be one, and that proved to be quite a dud.(not that anyone with half a brain beleived that the world would end when the clock hits 12)
I tend to be quite sceptic of any "end of the world" prophecy, because so far any religion has been proven wrong about anything they've ever said. People can keep beleiving what they please, but I'm staying out of it. Besides I don't think that any advocate of their beleif can say anything better than: "We've sinned a lot so god's gonna destroy the Earth."
I never actually thought that people paid attention to these kinds of things. As to the devices implanted in people, I still say it's total BS. They shouldn't be allowed because crime would escalate as people got more and more powers, and there would be a new way for athletes to cheat, but it's not gonna make god punish us for our sins, if that's what you think.

Shun me all you want, I don't care

------------------
Go to my site ST Infinity or you'll cause the release of another Olsen Twins movie. Do you want that on your conscience?

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

I don't think that any advocate of their beleif can say anything better than: "We've sinned a lot so god's gonna destroy the Earth."

Well, Revelation doesn't actually say that God will destroy the Earth. After the Church does all we can do, we're removed, and God goes to tough love tactics. If a global earthquake happened exactly as predicted, wouldn't it get your attention?

[bio-implants are] not gonna make god punish us for our sins, if that's what you think

I think what he's probably refering to is the mark of the beast, from Revelation. It's a mark on the back of the hand or the forehead, that will be required for you to engage in legal commerce. Lately, that's been interpreted to be a microchip of some sort. Thing is, it's also a mark of loyalty to Antichrist. Basically, you don't get this thing, you probably starve to death, but the only way you CAN get it is to swear eternal allegiance to God's archnemesis. Tough choice, eh? Maybe you should try to avoid it.

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

Don't it say in the New Testament that Jesus said that "You will not know the time nor place of my return"?

On a different note - yeah, bad stuff happens a lot in the world. But, hell, that's the world for ya. Personally, I don't attribute this as being a wake up call from God or anything.

------------------
"Okashii na... namida ga nagareteru. Hitotsu mo kanashikunai no ni."
(That's funny... my tears are falling. And I'm not sad at all.) - Quatre Raberba Winner

Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :

The earthquake would indeed make an impact, and would probably stirr up some beleifs in the apocalypse and other, but I would dismiss it as a coincidence.
As to the mark of the beast, well I don't beleive that a piece of technology such as a microchip would mean that we are submitting to the Satan, but it does remind me of a presentation I heard in school.
It was on a microchip that links in to satellites and has information on you. It would be used as a tracking device, health monitor and an unfallible ID. Ironically it was called "Digital Angel"

------------------
Go to my site ST Infinity or you'll cause the release of another Olsen Twins movie. Do you want that on your conscience?

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

"If me, JR, Liz,...mysteriously vanish one day"

One can only hope. I don't see why anyone knocks Revelation, anything that gets rid of millions of Christian 'right', is my kind of tribulation.

------------------
"I WANT A POST VOY SERIES STAR TREK ORIGINAL MESSAGE WAS LOOKING FORWARD NOT LOOKING BACK."

-Darkstar

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

Maggie-chops said: "One can only hope. I don't see why anyone knocks Revelation, anything that gets rid of millions of Christian 'right', is my kind of tribulation."

LOL!!!!!!!

Good un', boyo!

------------------
"Okashii na... namida ga nagareteru. Hitotsu mo kanashikunai no ni."
(That's funny... my tears are falling. And I'm not sad at all.) - Quatre Raberba Winner

Posted by dih1138 on :

Ultra Magnus:
The Rapture does not get "rid" of the faithful. That was kind of an unnecessary remark.

------------------
Ian Hughes

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

I thought better of you, Jeff. :P

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Don't it say in the New Testament that Jesus said that "You will not know the time nor place of my return"?

Ecclesiastes 9:12 says that "no man knows when His hour will come", and Luke says that He'll come at an hour when we least expect him. However, that refers to knowing the exact time. That doesn't contradict the idea of knowing the general period of time, or era of history.

The earthquake would indeed make an impact, and would probably stirr up some beleifs in the apocalypse and other, but I would dismiss it as a coincidence.

Oh, come on, a GLOBAL earthquake? You'd dismiss THAT? Even if it happened after the exact sequence of events predicted?

I don't beleive that a piece of technology such as a microchip would mean that we are submitting to the Satan

The point is that you'd HAVE to swear allegiance to Satan to get one of the marks.

One can only hope [you'll disappear]

I certainly hope I do. I'd prefer not to stick around for the ensuing chaos.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Well, reguarding the chip...

I assumed it was - that if you had the chip - you'll automatically be associated with Satan.

or are you saying...

you will have a choice and that they will say... Satan Chip or no ability to buy/trade... Does that mean you could all band together and not have the chip and make/grow your own stuff?

Cause I don't really want to be IMPLANTED with any tech... drawing a long bow... don't abductees get implants put in them?

I'd draw the line at implanting myself with technology... but there shouldn't be anything wrong with using it?

What about those microrobots that they are developing to help repair damaged organs - that are the size of a pill?? Or would it be an actual skin implant...

What if you were involuntary implanted??

SOOOOO

basically - live your life - as normal, but just don't go getting any chips/marks on the back of your right hand or forehead...

I guess that'd be what everyone should be looking out for?

Posted by BlueElectron (Member # 281) on :

I for one, believe in science sooo much, that I predict one day every field of our technologies will be so advance, that we will surpass the level which we believe is god!!!!!

------------------
What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

As if any of this is remotely possible.

Keep in mind Andrew that a LOT of the fundies who have been going on about how the end of the world is nigh and that all the stuff going on like quakes and plauges and floods and stuff. A lot of these people associate themselves with extremist right wing religeous groups, such as the Christian Identity Movement and few other groups such as White Aryan Resistance and such. Keep in mind these are the very same people who made the claim that when Y2K happened, Clinton would turn the USA into a police state, we'd all have to get chipped and that the Jews and the IMF, GATT, NAFTA and whatever were all arms of an incipent world government.

Well, behold, Y2K came and went, the world didn't end and if you ask me, the burden of proof is upon people who believe that Revelation is the absolute, proof positive truth that Jesus is on his way back and that the Anti-Christ is alive and well in Europe.

It's all bullshit. Pure and simple.

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :

Well, there is always another rational explanation. Maybe I would be unsure, but I know that I will never hold beleif in supernatural forces, man makes his own destiny, there is no greater being that limits my choice as to what I can do and what I can be. If there were such a being I highly doubt that it would be classified as benevolent if it restricts human choice. Religious beleif is good, because it helps you feel secure, but when you start thinking all that is real, you've reached a certain point when in my oppinion you are beyond help.

------------------
"Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"

-Nimrod 16/4/2001

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

you will have a choice and that they will say... Satan Chip or no ability to buy/trade...

Well, assuming for the sake of argument that it IS a chip (which seems to make sense), yeah, that's what would happen.

Does that mean you could all band together and not have the chip and make/grow your own stuff?

Theoretically, but you have to remember that to not be implanted is to refuse to swear allegiance to the Antichrist, who at the point this is supposed to happen will quite likely have been posessed by Satan himself. Chances are, you'd be executed if you were found out.

Or would it be an actual skin implant...

Yeah, it's a mark on the forehead or hand. Which, I suppose, might be personal preference...

Revelation 13:16-17

"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to reveive a mark on his right haand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name."

What if you were involuntary implanted??

Not possible. It has to be completely voluntary. You only get the mark if you say you want it. But again, threat of death otherwise.

basically - live your life - as normal, but just don't go getting any chips/marks on the back of your right hand or forehead...

I guess that'd be what everyone should be looking out for?

That's one thing, but you'll know it's coming long beforehand. That's halfway into the tribulation already. You'll have a lot more to worry about. That's just pretty well your last chance to choose which side you're on.

And no, choosing not to chose is not possible. The Antichrist would assume you were against him, and he'd execute you. But you'd die without God, so you'd have nothing to look foreward to when you died.

QW:

It's all bullshit. Pure and simple.

Again, your opinion. Irrelevant to the topic.

Practically every Christian on Earth believes the prophecies in Revelation, Andrew. Almost none were proponents of the movements QW mentions. He's setting up a false stereotype of people who believe as I do. You shouldn't believe him.

If there were such a being I highly doubt that it would be classified as benevolent if it restricts human choice.

Exactly why He doesn't. You can do as you please, so long as you're willing to face the consequences of your actions.

[This message has been edited by Omega (edited March 17, 2001).]

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

quote:
and if you ask me, the burden
of proof is upon people who believe that Revelation is the absolute, proof positive
truth that Jesus is on his way back and that the Anti-Christ is alive and well in
Europe.

sorry, can you explain this line - I don't understand what you're saying... *feels silly*

Andrew

Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

On a interesting side note, when I attempted to access the Antichrist page, my Netcape browser crashed. Twice. Good thing I didn't use Explorer or the entire Windows would've gone down the drain.

Anyway, as I have an entirely different belief about "heaven," this whole thing is quite ridiculous. I admit some things in the Bible may be true, as the prophets in those days could've had second sight or something. But nobody will destroy the world except us humans. God, Goddess, Allah, or whatever you'd like to call it, is about Love. JESUS is about Love. The practice of spreading fear in major religions is an attempt to exert control, and I'd be wary of that if I were you.

I'm not even just saying this as a pagan. Much of the readings I encounter are written by very spiritual Christians or they're stuff that cater to Christians. For example, I've read a book that "theorizes" exactly HOW people can "disappear" like Omega imagines. This is based on the "belief" that everything is made up of energy (which has been proven by science). It works through daily meditation and living spiritually (this is different from being religious), which speeds up the vibration of the energy of your body. And through consistent practice anyone can reach a vibration level high enough to disappear.

On the subject of Revelations, when Omega mentioned the building of a temple, I remembered coming across something in my readings where somebody saw in a meditation/hypnotic state/psychic vision (can't remember which) that in the future a temple will be built in Jerusalem by the Jews and Muslims (or Israelites, Palestinians, and Arabs? Perhaps Jews, Muslims, and Christians?). I seem to remember three different peoples.

About why the End of the World is ridiculous:
First, Earth is a school which souls come to learn lessons about life, which speeds up their vibration of energy. Souls rise through several levels of being to eventually become one with "god" or a Higher Power Filled with Light and Love. Why the hell would we want to do that? I haven't actually asked anyone about that yet, but I liked Optimus Primal's answer: "so the Matrix can also learn from us."
Destruction of Earth in any way would serve no purpose because souls cannot be harmed, and it only deprives us of one school in which we learn. As for "hell", there is none except the one you create for yourself.

Why are there bad things happening on Earth?
There are a few categories of bad things.
1. Abuse/murder/intentional crimes: these are caused by free will of people with immature souls to do harm to others in order to gain energy. (Ignore the energy part unless you care to ask)
2. Group disasters (may include natural disasters or plane crashes): Sometimes a group of people will die together to resolve some karmic debt. Karma is neither good or bad, it merely means "action."
3. Cancer/AIDS/terminal diseases/birth defects: People may go through these for their spiritual growth. Spirits of the dead often tells their loved ones (through a medium) that they had to go through whatever illness they had in order to learn from it. Sometimes it's to learn how to receive love from others, sometimes it's for others to learn unconditional love.

Name some other categories, this is all I can come up with.

BIG NOTE: Every unavoidable event a person may go through was pre-planned by his or her soul before incarnation. Free will determines how the person reacts to those events (including suicide). However, murder or abuse is NEVER planned or deserved. Murder is bad and suicide is bad because they either terminate others or your own life lesson prematurely. Capital Punishment is also bad for the same reason. However, like everybody else, suicides do not go to hell unless they want to.

------------------
"Silence is the language god speaks, and everything else is a bad translation."
--Father Thomas Keating

[This message has been edited by Tora Ziyal (edited March 17, 2001).]

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

QW: It's all bullshit. Pure and simple.

Him: Again, your opinion. Irrelevant to the topic.

Me: Oh and like yours is?

Him: Practically every Christian on Earth believes the prophecies in Revelation. Andrew. Almost none were proponents of the movements QW mentions. He's setting up a false stereotype of people who believe as I do. You shouldn't believe him.

Me: HA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You've got a LOT to learn about some of the most extremist of the extreme fundie Christian groups. And ALL of them DO believe in Revelation, that there will be a racial holy war and that it will happen the second Jesus Christ's feet touches terra firma.

And if i'm setting up a false sterotype and i'm not BTW...you have only yourselves, you as in you Christian Fundies, to blame for it. So up yers. Don't believe me. It's all a big ol' liberal media conspiracy to you anyway. Do you underSTAND me now or do I need to draw you a schematic?

Andrew: What I meant was that a lot of the fundie Christian groups really do believe that the Jews, the UN and other international organizations are out to get THEM, that the Anti-Christ really does live and is somewhere in Rome right now, getting ready to take over the world.

Utter and total fantasy.

That is all I will add to this. Someone else can pick up the debate.

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

dih: Okay, got rid of, disappeared, eliminated, I don't care, just as long as we're rid of them, or whatever term pleases them that are holier than me.

So, all we have to do is get a chip in our hand to be in league with Satan?

I'm not a bad dude or nothing, but where do I sign me up for these techno-sinning devices? I've always wanted to ask Hitler why he felt the need to open a two front war after nearly defeating Britain.

And I wouldn't mind hanging out with Steve Martin, 'cause you know he's going there.

------------------
"I WANT A POST VOY SERIES STAR TREK ORIGINAL MESSAGE WAS LOOKING FORWARD NOT LOOKING BACK."

-Darkstar

[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited March 17, 2001).]

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Where's Rob when you need him, I wouldn't mind reading his tearing apart of that site.

Or of this whole nonsensical argument, either.

------------------
"I WANT A POST VOY SERIES STAR TREK ORIGINAL MESSAGE WAS LOOKING FORWARD NOT LOOKING BACK."

-Darkstar

[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited March 17, 2001).]

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Ziyal:

And through consistent practice anyone can reach a vibration level high enough to disappear.

Not without frying several acres of surrounding real estate, you couldn't. Nothing just disappears. That'd be in violation of energy conservation. I'll grant you the possibility that you could convert to pure energy, for the sake of argument, but there'd be so MUCH energy that you'd destroy half of the county you were in.

But nobody will destroy the world except us humans.

As I said, the world is never actually destroyed. Granted, it's stated that if not for the Second Coming, the horrors perpetrated by Antichrist would have continued to that point, but God will cut the time short so that that won't happen.

QW:

You've got a LOT to learn about some of the most extremist of the extreme fundie Christian groups.

I know all I need to know: they're loonies. I never said that NONE believed the things you said. I said ALMOST none. I know literally hundreds of Christians personally, and have access to thousands more. I can guarentee you that none believe in the wacky things you indicate that the majority of Christians believe.

Oh and like your [opinion] is [relevant]?

If a question is asked about the things I believe in, I answer that question. Since you believe something completely different, your beliefs are not relevant to the question asked. Therefore, yes, my beliefs are relevant to the topic, whereas your beliefs aren't.

And if i'm setting up a false sterotype and i'm not BTW

Yes, you are. The vast majority of Christians do not believe the things you claim they believe. Thus, you are setting up a false stereotype by trying to convince Andrew that we do. Have you tried asking any Christians what they believe about the end-times?

What I meant was that a lot of the fundie Christian groups really do believe that the Jews, the UN and other international organizations are out to get THEM

Case in point. It is not true that a lot of groups believe this, Andrew. I'd be surprised if you could find three. You are being fed false information. Again, please e-mail me if you want to ask specific questions. [email protected]

Curiosity, QW: can you give me a rough estimate of what percentage of the Christian population you think believe the things you say? I can guarentee you that it's far less than .001%. I can find athiests who believe that the world is flat. They're few and far between, but they do exist. Does that mean that the vast majority of athiests believe that the world is flat? Does it mean that any appreciable fraction at all do?

that the Anti-Christ really does live and is somewhere in Rome right now

THIS, I'll grant. If the Antichrist is to take over the world for seven years before the Second Coming as predicted, and if you assume that the sequence of events leading up to the Second Coming is going to begin within the next three decades, then it would be logical to assume that the Antichrist has been born. It's just a matter of whether you believe He's coming back soon or not.

And yes, Antichrist probably would be living in Europe somewhere, as there is prophetic reference to his coming from the same lineage as those who originally scattered the Jews. This would seem to be Romans. "Left Behind" has him coming from Romania, where the people are of strong Italian descent.

'Course, lots of Italians live here, too. For all we know, it could be some mafia boss from New York.

Or the next Pope.

UM:

got rid of, disappeared, eliminated, I don't care, just as long as we're rid of them

Believe me on this: if you don't like the fact that we exist NOW, you have no idea what's in store for you later. BILLIONS will come to believe after the Rapture. I pray that you'll be among them.

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

"Believe me on this: if you don't like the fact that we exist NOW, you have no idea what's in store for you later. BILLIONS will come to believe after the Rapture. I pray that you'll be among them."

This is the reason I don't now.

Anyway,

Fundies are boring.

Discussions on things that may or may not be true are boring.

Discussions on mythology are boring.

Discussions on the views of a non-majority religion's end of the world are boring.

Discussions on the views of any religion's end of the world are boring.

Wild speculation and rampant prophecy association is boring.

Arguing with people who don't listen is boring.

Discussions about how people can vibrate really fast are boring.

Batman Forever is boring.

Stubborness is boring.

Someone needs to start discussing porn.

------------------
"I WANT A POST VOY SERIES STAR TREK ORIGINAL MESSAGE WAS LOOKING FORWARD NOT LOOKING BACK."

-Darkstar

[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited March 17, 2001).]

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

You don't like me... specifically BECAUSE I'm concerned for your eternal soul?

All the more reason for me to pray.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

quote:
You don't like me... specifically BECAUSE I'm concerned for your eternal soul?

Er. Where'd you get THAT?

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 7.64 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with six eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
****
And homeschooling also turns you into a socially well-adjusted person, capable of talking to people without them wanting to ram a f***ing chair down your throat! - PsyLiam, 3/11/01

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Uh, I don't prey. Or pray. At least for my soul. For many naked ladies, yes. Or something. Is what I meant.

Sure, Omega, I like you, kid. Just not when you pull Holier than thou stuff.

------------------
"I WANT A POST VOY SERIES STAR TREK ORIGINAL MESSAGE WAS LOOKING FORWARD NOT LOOKING BACK."

-Darkstar

[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited March 17, 2001).]

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

"If a question is asked about the things I believe in, I answer that question. Since you believe something completely different, your beliefs are not relevant to the question asked. Therefore, yes, my beliefs are relevant to the topic, whereas your beliefs aren't."

Oh really? Hear that gang? Only HIS beliefs is applicable to any debate. Talk about arrogance to the extreme.

"Yes, you are. The vast majority of Christians do not believe the things you claim they believe. Thus, you are setting up a false stereotype by trying to convince Andrew that we do. Have you tried asking any Christians what they believe about the end-times?"

I never said that. But a lot of non-mainstream protestants do. And as if you people don't stereotype to the nth degree. And I don't care if I convince Andrew or not. I'm attacking YOU and your belifes because I think that you are WRONG and harmful. And as for asking Christian about the end times, a lot don't care, some don't really believe it and a small group (like me) think's it's an allegory.

"Case in point. It is not true that a lot of groups believe this, Andrew. I'd be surprised if you could find three. You are being fed false information."

It most certainly is true. Go to www.godshatesfags.com and read up on a certain Fred Phelps preaches. And everyone who has a different opinion than yours feeds "false information", Ok. Uh-huh. Sureeeeee.....

"THIS, I'll grant. If the Antichrist is to take over the world for seven years before the Second Coming as predicted, and if you assume that the sequence of events leading up to the Second Coming is going to begin within the next three decades, then it would be logical to assume that the Antichrist has been born. It's just a matter of whether you believe He's coming back soon or not.

'Course, lots of Italians live here, too. For all we know, it could be some mafia boss from New York.

Or the next Pope."

See, i've heard this said many times on Fundie TV. That the Catholic Church will be a tool of the Anti-Christ and that the next Pope will be him. Does that mean that the Catholics are in leauge with Satan? Is that what you're TRYING to tell Andrew?

Oh dear...

People, behold the true enemy. People like Omega who want to turn this country into a facsist theocracy. First they villify the Jews then they go after the Catholics and soon any other group who don't hold up to their so-called brand of belief is the enemy. They're fearful of technology because it weakens their so called "faith", they're fearful of science because down deep they fear that science will prove once and for all that there IS no God. And most of all, they're fearful that they will loose their power and ability to brainwash people into believing their brand of garbage.

How truly sad for you Omega, to live in fear of imaginary boogy-men.

I'm really, really, REALLY finished with ever talking to you.

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

I said: I pray that you'll be among the [billions converted].

UM said: This is the reason I don't [like you] now.

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

?????

Hm.

?????

You can't just arbitrarily place 'like you' in my sentence. Granted, it wasn't exactly the most Grammatocratic Oath-inspired response, but it didn't mean that.

I pray that you'll be [dead any lying in a gutter somewhere after eating a bad donut] among...

I don't think you can do that.

------------------
"I WANT A POST VOY SERIES STAR TREK ORIGINAL MESSAGE WAS LOOKING FORWARD NOT LOOKING BACK."

-Darkstar

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

This is fun

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

*plays that really annoying Jewel song "Who Will Save Your Soul?" as loud as he can.*

That oughta do it.

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

So is anyone else wondering why UM doesn't just butt out if he thinks this is boring? *Yawn*

------------------
"Silence is the language god speaks, and everything else is a bad translation."
--Father Thomas Keating

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

UM:

I like you, kid. Just not when you pull Holier than thou stuff.

I'm not holier than you. I'm scum. I'm just redeemed scum.

You can't just arbitrarily place 'like you' in my sentence.

Sorry, I just couldn't figure out what else you were talking about.

Only HIS beliefs is applicable to any debate.

Did I say that?

But a lot of non-mainstream protestants do.

I AM a non-mainsteam protestant. 95% of my friends are non-mainstream protestants. NONE believe the things you say. How do you define a lot?

I'm attacking YOU and your belifes because I think that you are WRONG and harmful.

Really? How do my beliefs cause harm to people?

And as for asking Christian about the end times, a lot don't care

Not true. What's the point of believing that Christ is the Son of God, if you don't believe everything He said?

Does that mean that the Catholics are in leauge with Satan? Is that what you're TRYING to tell Andrew?

I didn't say that. It was an example of someone who might be of Italian descent who could be placed on the world stage at short notice. Nothing more.

Not that the remnant of the Catholic church won't play a role in the Antichrist's regime (the harlot, who sits on seven hills), but then, this is after the rapture, so it's really just any people who were left behind, claiming to be Christians. Bureaucracies never die, you know.

People like Omega who want to turn this country into a facsist theocracy.

Where'd you get that?

People call ME paranoid?

they fear that science will prove once and for all that there IS no God.

Impossible. Logic and science do not allow for the proof of a universal negative.

Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

Actually, since Omega doesn't come in much contact with Catholics, I'd like to just mention one thing. If ever the Pope became the Antichrist (*L*), most Catholics would probably rebel against him. Already, I've heard many accounts of priests/lay people criticize the pope for declaring that only Catholics will go to heaven.

------------------
"Silence is the language god speaks, and everything else is a bad translation."
--Father Thomas Keating

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

Yup.

Hey Ziyal...question for you. Are you Wiccan? I don't mean anything personal by it, my BF just came "Out of the Broom Closet" today and he's started to practice and study Wicca.

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by LOA (Member # 49) on :

I don't want to get involved with this... I SWORE I wouldn't get involved with this... .adn hopefully I'll be able to be DONE with this... but, please, favor time people--

Let's not slander eachother. No matter what's going on or who believes what, we're all on this Earth together, so let's just try to get along. Please? I randomly checked this out to see what was going on, and I don't like a few of the things I've seen.... just remember you guys.... whether you believe in the Bible or not, it's still better to love one another that to hate.... even John Lennon believed that, and he DEFIANTELY was not one of us "Jesus-freaks"...

Just please? Can't we be nice at least? If you don't want to be constructive or you don't like what's being discussed, get out... and if you want to talk about porn? Great... go start a thread.... I'm sure you'll be joined by others!

Thanks, y'all..... I just really like people to try to get along, even when debating.... luv yas!

~LOA

------------------
"Apprently, "pooty" involves deities and pretty girls in compromising positions..." ~TSN Jan. 18th, 2001

Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

Well, poor little Omega had to go to bed, so I'm posting replies to his ICQ messages here.

To say "you're wrong" CAN provoke someone to revenge, but only if they're a very immature person. And don't get me started on that whole "taking energy" crap again. Why not use "karma", or some other word that doesn't really mean anything, instead of a word so rigidly defined?

Do you admit that saying "you're wrong" makes yourself feel better? Then that feeling is an energy or power increase in yourself that you've stolen from another. Food gives you energy, but you also get it unconsciously from people. When another person admires you, LOVES you, he/she gives you energy willingly. This is why a new relationship may feel more invigorating than it does six months later. When you steal someone's energy, such as by making them self-conscious, it makes them physically more tired. I will further explain this without the term "energy" if you like, since that is all you will argue about even though it's not the point.

Much of this is so ingrained in us that it can be explained psychologically. In our lives we are constantly trying to make others do what we want or resist others' attempts to make us do what they want (okay, it's kind of a crude definition). This is called a control drama. There are four types in varying degrees: Intimidator, Interrogator, Aloofness, and Poor Me. There are no clear-cut lines of who is which type, some may have a dominant one, and most people have more than one.

The Intimidator is the bully, the abusive person who uses violence to solve problems. If you tell someone you're not gonna follow his directions (get off his property, give him your lunch money, etc), and he threatens to beat you up, that's an Intimidator. The process of beating you up makes him empowered and feel good, so he continues to do it. The Intimidator drama can be passed on from parent to child, as in many cases a child who's abused becomes the abuser later in life.

The Interrogator is the never-ending critic, the nitpicker, the why-did-you-get-an-A-minus-but-not-an-A parent. The Interrogator criticizes, perhaps making him/herself feel better because she can spot the faults in other people's work. Mind you, criticism can be constructive if worded carefully and strategically, but this is not the concern of an Interrogator.

The Aloof person is reluctant to talk. He/she may answer your question in the simplest way possible, making you to probe more, ask more, thereby spending more attention (aka "energy") on them. The Aloof person is resulted from an Interrogator parent. For example, if a child is constantly criticized when she tells her dad what she did at school ("Oh, you're going to hell for that"), then eventually the child would stop telling her dad things except when directly asked. Aloof parents in turn make Interrogator children. When the parents don't pay enough attention to the kid, he would probe and resort to criticisms to get their attention.

Finally, the Poor Me person is the abused, the everything-bad-is-happening-to-me person. They, though undoubted would've had to suffer, use their suffering to gain constant sympathy, or attention, or energy, from you. Your sympathy makes them feel better, and that's the end goal. They result from Intimidator parents and may revert to Intimidators themselves later in life.

And that is the negative side of energy circulation in society today.

If we're all going to the same wonderful place, then people like Hitler would end up there, too, so long as they believed that they were doing the right thing?

Not necessarily. You'd only end up there if your spirit believes you're dead and knows you should be going somewhere. If you're too caught up in your control drama, your spirit may live out a particular emotional moment (such as a decision or event that led to your death) over and over again. Where do you think ghosts come from? Also, (I believe, if you will) once you die, you gain a higher understanding as a spirit and you review everything you've every done in life. A person like Hitler would then realize that he was WRONG. Yes, I say that, Omega, but not whenever somebody doesn't agree with me. Only when the belief harms other people. Everything a soul does, it does of its own will. It pays off karma debts because it wants to. But in heaven everyone's goal is spiritual enlightenment rather than the selfish goals on Earth.

Your philosophy is just too happy-go-lucky. Nothing you do matters unless it matters to you, there is no absolute arbiter of justice, and EVERYONE's right. Question: if there are no absolutes, then what's the point of anything?

Like I said before, it is wrong when you harm others, physically or emotionally. There is no absolute arbiter of justice because YOU know what's best for your soul, and YOU are the absolute arbiter of yourself. On the other side, it's not physical punishment you deal with, it's your conscience.

And everything I've told you earlier on ICQ seem to have gone out the other ear. There is an absolute: Love. All types of love: family love, self-love, romantic love, friendship love, and unconditional love. This is the rule by which you judge.

------------------
"Silence is the language god speaks, and everything else is a bad translation."
--Father Thomas Keating

Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

QW: I'm not even attempting to hide it. I'm not strictly Wiccan, more of an eclectic pagan, which just means that I'll take elements from whatever section of paganism that suits me. I'm with a pagan group at school, and we do use a lot of Wiccan stuff.

------------------
"Silence is the language god speaks, and everything else is a bad translation."
--Father Thomas Keating

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

Ah. Ok Ziyal. Thanks for the heads up.

BTW, I LOVED how you explained your philosophy in the post right after mine. It makes a lot of sense.

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

"That's great, it starts with an earthquake, birds and
snakes, an aeroplane and Lenny Bruce is not afraid."

------------------
Not even a god can deny that I have squared the circle of a static Earth and cubed the Earth sphere by rotating it once to a dynamic Time or Life Cube.
--
Gene Ray
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet" Or don't. You know, whatever.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

You wanna know something? I don't believe in God. I don't think He exists, and if he does, he most certainly doesn't care HOW people worship him as long as the follow the Golden Rule: "treat others as you would like to be treated."

The only Christians I don't like are those that clearly break every law supposedly set down for them. I have an especially dark place in my heart for the televangelists -- the very fact that people actually think those charlatans have anything but their wallets on their mind is ridiculous.

I also don't care for people of any religion (and, well, yes, the above goes for those of any religion as well) who try and force their faith on me. Or honestly expect me to believe that the Bible was written by God or that the supposed "faithful" with one day vanish. Hog-wash, I say. Hey -- you got faith? That's beautiful, it really is. But the Bible's still fiction.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

I'm not holier than you. I'm scum. I'm just redeemed scum.

You sure about that? Last I heard, God was mighty dead set against the death penalty. You support that, don't you?

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 17, 2001).]

Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :

Well there is a lot of stuff that Omega beleives in that god strictly opposes. If we were to connect this debate to the other that would prove omega to be a very big DISbeleiver of god.

------------------
"Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"

-Nimrod 16/4/2001

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

If ever the Pope became the Antichrist (*L*), most Catholics would probably rebel against him.

Well, the thing is, the true Christians at this point would be gone. It'd just be the playacting ones left behind, which would change the entire nature of the establishment. We'll assume that the Pope'd probably be gone, too, along with the majority of the upper hierarchy. It could be some minor Bishop somewhere that ended up being Pope, after telling everyone else exactly what they wanted to hear: that it had nothing to do with their actions that they were left. Someone'd have to fill the role, as there WILL be pseudochristians left behind, and as bureaucracies never die.

Anyway, I doubt he'd be the Antichrist. There's also a false religion mentioned that'd he'd more likely be part of.

Do you admit that saying "you're wrong" makes yourself feel better?

Not in the sense that you're thinking. Pointing out the error of someone's ways is part of my duty, and as such, I enjoy it. I DON'T, however, enjoy the necessity of it. I'd much rather I didn't have to.

Last I heard, God was mighty dead set against the death penalty. You support that, don't you?

A) God told you this?

B) I've explained my views on capital punishment multiple times, as I have with guns. I have no intention of typing them out here again, and wasting space on an irrelevant topic.

Well there is a lot of stuff that Omega beleives in that god strictly opposes.

Such as?

You guys have turned this into a witch hunt instead of an actual discussion of the topic at hand. I knew you'd do this.

*sigh*

Ah, well.

Bring it.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Yes, matter o' fact, God did tell me that.

Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :

God told me to linch omega for his ungodly actions

Let's get him!!!
LOL

------------------
"Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"

-Nimrod 16/4/2001

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Nah, God told me to let Omega strut his stuff. He said he'd send us a photo of Omega's face when he saw where he was going to wind up

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Tora: I wasn't actually debating the issue. Just what Omega thought I said. I only said everything was boring, so that people knew it was fruitless to debate with me. Instead of arguing, I like reading everything posted, especially what you post, because it's quite different than anything I've been exposed to.

Omega: Scum? Redeemed scum? Is that invincible to Windex?

------------------
"I WANT A POST VOY SERIES STAR TREK ORIGINAL MESSAGE WAS LOOKING FORWARD NOT LOOKING BACK."

-Darkstar

Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :

*L* I know so many jokes about punishment in hell.
Some Guy� was sent to hell, and then he needs to pick his punishment. In the first room he sees a young guy standing on his head on a concrete floor. He says: "Well this will get very painfull in a while, so let's see what else is there."
In the second room he sees a middle-aged guy being tortured with fire. He says: "This is definitely not a good choice, the first one was better.
In the third room he sees an old guy standing knee deep in s**t and getting a b*****b by a beautifull blonde. He says: "This seems to be the best choice, the smell won't bother me after awhile." So the boss goes up to the blonde and he says:"Get up, you've been releived."

------------------
"Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"

-Nimrod 16/4/2001

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

EW!

*LOL*

Funny but definetly "EW!"

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

No one gets it. I'm just about ready to give up. I really am.

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Would you mind elaborating on what exactly we're supposed to get, and what's making you discouraged?

------------------
"I WANT A POST VOY SERIES STAR TREK ORIGINAL MESSAGE WAS LOOKING FORWARD NOT LOOKING BACK."

-Darkstar

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

All I can say is: Oh dear. How can you people intellectualize about something that is so deeply personal? If I were to do what you are all doing right now, (and I have done it myself), I would draw several conclusions:

Religious texts are not to be taken literally. They were written with the intention that they set a good example for others to follow.

Saints, prophets, and saviors were not saints prophets and saviors. Good people yes, trying to spread a message of love and kindness, but not sent or instructed by a divine power.

God does not exist. As Eleanor Arroway of Carl Sagan's "Contact" said, if He did, He would make His presence a lot clearer.

Fortunately, since I don't intellectualize, I only believe in the first two.

I warn you that I will now begin to rant. If you feel offended by any of the comments I make, they are of my own beliefs and please understand that if you believe in something different, that's okay by me. I many think you a bit more stupid, but hey, :-).

Do you people really believe in the book of revelations or whatever its called? Do you really believe the earth was created 6,000 years ago? Do you people believe a car that is sanctified by a priest in Rome won't have an accident? HOW NAIVE CAN YOU BE?!?!?!

Do you believe in the contradictory NONSENSE that is put forth by organized religion around the world? How can anyone with a shred of intelligence believe any of the idiotic trappings of religious dogma?

How have we as humans allowed this to influence so greatly our actions? Wars have been fought in the name of God. Priceless statues have been destroyed because of religion. The man in the pulpit will spend more time denouncing the economic crisis than bringing you closer to God.

AARGH! It just boggles the mind! The deepest connection you can have with God is within you. It is not of the mind but of the heart. It is that feeling of wonderful contentment, pure happiness, that so many of us lose connection to after childhood. Can you honestly say that you feel that every day? Even I, who actively seek it out, cannot.

I believe God does not punish, in fact is incapable. I believe he loves us all no matter what we do, and will always be there for anyone, even those who turn away. I don't believe in hell, and I'm not even sure I believe in heaven. I don't think about the afterlife very often because I'm more concerned with the now. If you can't find your connection with God in the now, who says you'll find it later?

You can't intellectualize a feeling. All of the religious mumbo-jumbo you're all concerned about was written hundreds and thousands of years ago. It was meant for a different time, a different people. It was a lesson of compassion which by the middle ages was turned into a tool for control.

You can't honestly believe that somewhere within that labarynthine structure of words and lofty ideals you can find God? Can you? I can find God without reading a page of it. Without even hearing about it. can you say the same? Has all of your belief in that truly brought you any closer to happiness and the enjoyment of life?

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Again, I'm sorry if I've offended anyone.

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

I'm not offended. I think you expressed yourselve rather nicely.

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by LOA (Member # 49) on :

*claps* Very well said..... thank you for that, Dan.......

~LOA

------------------
"Apprently, "pooty" involves deities and pretty girls in compromising positions..." ~TSN Jan. 18th, 2001

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

I think I have a problem with expressing my spirituality somewhat...(yes, I AM spiritual) Basically I believe that the universe is conciouc and that we are all made of star-stuff and that we and other living things are the universe made manifest, in order to try to understand itself.

I do happen to believe in reincarnation, that we are souls with bodies on a...journey of seeking, of understanding. I'm not really making sense am I? But what i've tried to explain is pretty much how I percieve things to be.

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :

I beleive in grabbing something to eat right now before I pass out on the floor from food-deprivation

------------------
"Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"

-Nimrod 16/4/2001

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

Well, thank you all. Much more positive responses than I had hoped for. Varied posts, none of which having to do with death threats. I can take that. Infinity, by all means, eat something.

P.S. Quatre Winner, do you know how WEIRD it is responding to someone with the name of a Gundam Wing character? I keep forming a mental image of a short, compassionate, Arabian blond with a high-pitched voice. Very strange.

P.P.S. Again to Quatre Winner. You ARE making sense. At least to me. Thank you for enlightening us with your views.

[This message has been edited by Daniel (edited March 18, 2001).]

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

Dan said: P.S. Quatre Winner, do you know how WEIRD it is responding to someone with the name of a Gundam Wing character? I keep forming a mental image of a short, compassionate, Arabian blond with a high-pitched voice. Very strange.

*L* Wanna know something? I AM short, thin and very blond. My boyfriend says i'm compassionate but sometimes i'm not so sure. And my voice isn't all that high. it's not all that deep either.

Dan also said: P.P.S. Again to Quatre Winner. You ARE making sense. At least to me. Thank you for enlightening us with your views.

Thanks!

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

I've been gone 4 days, and look what happens...

Revelations is silly.

It occurred to me, that saying that what is written in Revelations MUST happen is in direct conflict with the concept of "free will" used by so many religious types to try and justify why people suffer for what is seemingly, to rational people, 'no good reason.'

That aside, one would accept that the Antichrist will have a thorough understanding of scripture (otherwise how would he know what prophecies to fulfil?) Therefore he will most likely be a religious leader rather than a temporal one. Pat Robertson comes to mind.

Now, we know that the AC is supposed to be a man... The "Omen" movies notwithstanding. Therefore, he must have Free Will. Now... if the AC REALLY wanted to twist God's panties in a bunch... he'd be best off not doing ANYTHING that was in Revelations. It'd be too obvious.

Really, religious experts have been predicting the imminent Apocalypse in signs of the times as far back as when it was first written. Heck, when Christ was ACTIVE there were several groups of Apocalyptic Jews, who believed that the end of the world was near. Some scholars even hypothesize that Jesus was one... which would explain, a lot more easily than twisting it into 'metaphor,' why JC told some of his followers that they would "not taste of death before the kingdom of God shall arrive."

------------------
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

You can thank the Catholic Church for that one.

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

I'm not going to argue your opinion of Revelation, Rob. Just your interpretation of it.

It occurred to me, that saying that what is written in Revelations MUST happen is in direct conflict with the concept of "free will"

Hey, now, predicting what's going to happen isn't the same thing as causing it to happen. We're not talking about self-fulfiling prophecy. We're talking about LEGITIMATE prophecy, which is a whole other deal.

And before you try to argue about it being legitimate, remember, I'm arguing against your interpretation, not your views.

That said, your next point is also negated.

if the AC REALLY wanted to twist God's panties in a bunch... he'd be best off not doing ANYTHING that was in Revelations.

Only assuming his main objective is to prove God wrong, as opposed to deceiving as many souls as possible.

------------------
"Omega is right."
-Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

"Hey, now, predicting what's going to happen isn't the same thing as causing it to happen."

Oh yes, yes it is.

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

Expecially when we design our foreing policy to make it happen.

What's this? God didn't expect to think that all of us to think out of the box, did he? If somebody is gonna layeth the smackdown on MY planet, I damn well wanna now WHY!

So, to quote the humans, up YOURS!

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

"Hey, now, predicting what's going to happen isn't the same thing as causing it to happen."

It is when you're GOD, and you DO cause it to happen.

See, when you're GOD, an omnipotent, omniscient being in CHARGE of running the Universe, the words 'cause' and 'allow' are semanticaly identical.

"Only assuming his main objective is to prove God wrong, as opposed to deceiving as many souls as possible."

Same difference.
Of course, nobody YET has explained to my satisfaction just what it is Lucifer/Satan/Sammael wants with human souls. Are they, like, fuel for the war effort? Soldiers? Bricks in the Wall?

What does God need with a starship? What does Lucifer need with souls? They won't give him what he wants, rule over Heaven, so what's the deal?

[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited March 21, 2001).]

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Maybe he has a low self-esteem after being rejected by his dad. Needs to push people down.

------------------
Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

See, when you're GOD, an omnipotent, omniscient being in CHARGE of running the Universe, the words 'cause' and 'allow' are semanticaly identical.

Ah, but there's your problem. God DOESN'T run the universe. He COULD, but he chooses not to interfere most of the time. See, God's not a liberal. He doesn't believe in micromanaging every little portion of your life. I suppose you could legitimately say that God is the cause of every event in history, as God is the ultimate Source, but every event that has ever happened has NOT been God's will. There's a difference between setting up a sequence of events that causes something only after being interfered with by others; and actively DOING it.

Of course, nobody YET has explained to my satisfaction just what it is Lucifer/Satan/Sammael wants with human souls.

Simple: he wants to hurt God as much as possible, and that's the way to do it. If you can't hurt Him directly, hurt something He cares about.

------------------
"Omega is right."
-Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM

Posted by The Talented Mr. Gurgeh (Member # 318) on :

quote:
God DOESN'T run the universe. He COULD, but he chooses not to interfere most of the time. See, God's not a liberal. He doesn't believe in micromanaging every little portion of your life. I suppose you could legitimately say that God is the cause of every event in history, as God is the ultimate Source, but every event that has ever happened has NOT been God's will.

*chuckles*
Please prove this. And quoting some passage of the bible doesn't count.

------------------
"If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing."

[This message has been edited by Gurgeh (edited April 27, 2001).]

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Uh... no. You want me to show why I believe something, without showing why I believe it. Nice try, though.

------------------
"Omega is right."
-Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM

Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :

So you beleive something just because it's in a very old book. That pretty much makes you seem dumb, no offense.

------------------
"Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"

-Nimrod 16/4/2001

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

lol

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

quote:
See, God's not a liberal.

Considering God doesn't exist, God's not God, either.

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

"God DOESN'T run the universe."

Perhaps.. but he DOES like to brag about it... (Job)

"He COULD, but he chooses not to interfere most of the time."

Unfortunately, He's not the least bit consistent about when He'll intervene and for whom. That's why, under identical circumstances, some people die and others are saved.

"See, God's not a liberal. He doesn't believe in micromanaging every little portion of your life."

Unless you're one of those people who prays to God every 30 seconds (like the people who think prayer in school is really necessary), or who believes "God has a plan for me"... like virtually every other Christian in the US

"I suppose you could legitimately say that God is the cause of every event in history, as God is the ultimate Source, but every event that has ever happened has NOT been God's will."

Something happens, and you know about it in advance, can stop it, but choose not to, then it's your will that it happens as surely as if you did it yourself.

"There's a difference between setting up a sequence of events that causes something only after being interfered with by others; and actively DOING it."

There's a difference between laying out a minefield and actually stepping into it, too.

God laid the minefield. The minefield is all the various ways of sin (which God gave us by combining the Tree of Knowledge, Satan, and Free Will all in the same place, and allowing all the 'false' religions and beliefs and actions to flourish -- even do better than -- those of the 'faithful')

But we're the ones who have to walk through it. And don't lay Jesus's life on me... he had a Get Out of Hell Free card, being part divine as He was. God never took the risks He asks us to take.

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

nothing to see here

[This message has been edited by Jeff Raven (edited March 21, 2001).]

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Wow. Three people posted at the 'xact same time.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Yes, but only one of us had anything constructive to say.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Now, hold on. God doesn't exist, therefore the whole conversation is moot. Very contructive to point that out!

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 21, 2001).]

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

"Of course, nobody YET has explained to my satisfaction just what it is Lucifer/Satan/Sammael wants with human souls. Are they, like, fuel for the war effort? Soldiers? Bricks in the Wall?"

Have you not seen the fantastic movie starring Jaleel White (Or something. "Hey Malebolgia, Got any cheese?") and cartoons which are based on a comic book by Todd McFarlane, which also SPAWNed* a toy line?

* I AM THE MAST0R PUNN3R.

------------------
"Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."

-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Mr Benson, by dismissing God so outright, and generally, you're not any more becoming than the Fundamentalists you dislike for their views, dismissing non-Christians so outright, and generally.

In a discussion Regarding the Relevence of Revelations (Alliteration = Yes!), simply spouting off comments, in a Tourettes fashion, about your disdain and disbelief in the beliefs and mythology of others, does nothing to help progress this debate.

I recall you mentioning that you felt that God doesn't exist on the first page of this thread. I don't think we've all forgotten, and you attempts to remind us, while constant, are in vain, young sir.

If we were discussing Gun Control, Like we have, Many times. Many times. Many. I don't think the interjection of a person insisting that they don't like the guns, or the gun owners, would be taken to seriously, and wouldn't help the argument.

While I can't say that I disagree with your sentiments, perhaps statements, or discussion that was less general, and provided more fuel for your argument, would work a little better.

Or something.

DOLPH LUNDGREN!

-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Good point, UM.

I believe in faith. That is: that people can have faith that God exists, but trying to support God's existance by quoting from a very ancient book that God has no hand in writing, is completely ridiculous.

There is no proof that God exists. There is proof that faith exists. However, faith does not prove God. Faith merely proves the existance of a belief in God.

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 21, 2001).]

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

This is the best Gene Ray I've ever seen that was pulled unintentionally:

"There is no proof that God exists. There is proof that faith exists. However, faith does not prove God. Faith merely proves the existance of a belief in God."

I do agree with this point, though.

-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.

Posted by Jeff Raven (Member # 20) on :

I believe God's existence can be proven... we just haven't done it yet. There's a recent article in Discover Magazine that certainly suggests we're close. Faith may not prove His existence, but then again, when one has faith, one doesn't need to.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Raven (edited March 21, 2001).]

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

How does Discover Magazine propose that they will find God?

And all Faith proves is that you're delusional

Now, mind you, yes, Faith is a great and wonderful thing, and while I'm sure you do believe in God (and I'm certainly not trying to ridicule your beliefs), how do you know you're not just deluding yourself?

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Yes, I too, would like a summary of how Discover magazine believes we can find a God. Or at least, how "we are close".

Personally, I think it may have to do with Sulphur. But don't quote me on that.

A search on discover.com, for 'discovering god' reveals three hits. Something about the Mars Lander, when Nike was a 'God', and something about a crazy NASA mission.

When searching for 'Man Train', 12 results were obtained. Perhaps finding a Man Train is a more important task for Discover Magazine. Perhaps God is ON the Man Train.

-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.

[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited March 21, 2001).]

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

I see most of what I said flew over everyone's heads and we're back to semantics. But that's probably only because if we didn't go back to semantics, we'd have nothing left to talk about.

I will now have to put in my own two cents on the subject, (making a total of four cents, if you count my original post to this thread). An interesting point is that I actually concur with Omega regarding God and micromanagement. Hmm. The thought of agreeing with a highly religious person scares me very much.

In any case, it was the thought of Enlightened philosophers of the Renaissance that the universe was a clock made by God. He wound it, and then left it to sit and see what happened. In other words, God doesn't micromanage because he doesn't have to. He wrote the laws of the universe, (or so these philosophers believed), and then let it alone to run it's course. Why WOULD he micromanage?

I also agree with JeffK. What you all find so fascinating with literal translations of an ancient text written by fanatics is beyond me.

However, I disagree with JeffR. I do not believe God's existance can be proven to the masses. I think it can only be proven on an individual basis and never empirically. How do you PROVE the existance of God?

***

"You must have faith, Valeris."
"Faith ...?"
"That the universe will unfold as it should."

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

se�man�tics
n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb)

1.Linguistics. The study or science of meaning in language forms.
2.Logic. The study of relationships between signs and symbols and what they represent. In this sense, also called semasiology.

Would #2 not be what this thread is about?

-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.

Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

Yes, the second sense of the word. I don't believe I indicated otherwise, did I? I said that it appeared we moved back to arguing the semantics of religion, which after my lengthy post on the irrelevance of this to the greater good of humanity, seemed to be a silly place to go back to.

However, if we weren't discussing semantics of religion, we would have nothing left to discuss (because organized religion is all about interpreting symbolism and dogma thereof), and this thread would die, irrevocably. Maybe I wasn't clear. Maybe this post wasn't too clear either. Sorry!

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

God laid the minefield. The minefield is all the various ways of sin (which God gave us by combining the Tree of Knowledge, Satan, and Free Will all in the same place, and allowing all the 'false' religions and beliefs and actions to flourish -- even do better than -- those of the 'faithful')

But we're the ones who have to walk through it.

God didn't lay the minefield. Satan did. God said, "Hey, see that minefield? Don't go in there." Adam and Eve didn't listen, and the entire human race has been LIVING in that minefield ever since.

'Course, the analogy of a minefield isn't QUITE right, 'cause you can get blown up just by sitting still in this one. A minefield where Satan tests his artillary?

And God didn't give us sin. Have you even read Genesis? We CREATED sin (at least, as far as humanity was concerned). Have you gone libby on me, Rob? WE are responsible for our actions.

------------------
"Omega is right."
-Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Meggy, meggy, meggy...

WE, functional modern humans, are responsible for our actions, because WE know the difference between right and wrong.

The Bible clearly states that Adam and Eve had to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil BEFORE they knew the difference between right and wrong.
Therefore, before they ate, they couldn't have been responsible for their own actions any more than a child who hasn't developed mentally enough to understand 'right' and 'wrong' could. Essentially, they had a mental (or moral, more accurately) age of two to four.

Adam and Eve were guilty of gullibility, perhaps, but NOT wrongdoing. They couldn't be. They had no concept of 'wrong.'

What the Bible states God did was essentially equivalent to:

Putting a 4-year-old child in a room with a toy Or a lot of toys.
**(God places Adam, & The Tree of Knowledge in Eden)
Telling the child not to play with one toy in particular (thus making it 'special' and a focus of curiosity for the child, as any parent can tell you).
**(God's command to Adam: do not eat from the Tree of Knowledge)
Leaving the room.
**(God departed from Eden, or at least he was away while the whole apple thing happened)
WATCHING, from the other room, as an adult you KNOW does not have the best intentions of the child at heart enters, and tells the kid that you were only kidding, and its okay to play with the toy.
**(God allowed Satan to enter the garden and tempt Adam, since, as we know, nothing can happen without God's knowing about it.)

I put it to you that only a very stupid and unfit parent could actually bring themselves justify being angry with that child under those circumstances. Pissed at the other ADULT, sure. But the kid? No. It's unjustifiable.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

"God didn't lay the minefield. Satan did. God said, "Hey, see that minefield? Don't go in there.""

God made the minelayer, and gave him free reign to sow his mines.

GOD is responsible for Satan. Much like, and even moreso, the parents of these school shooters are partially responsible for THEIR monsters. Moreso, because God can't claim He was ignorant of what was going on.

You can't make a monster and set it free in the world and NOT expect to take some of the blame for the havoc it wreaks.

Satan = FrankenGod's Monster. That's what happens when you put an abnormal brain in one of your angels.

I haven't gone libbie on you... God has. Who else but an Uberliberal would give a guy like Satan, who caused no end of trouble in Heaven, where nearly omnipotent beings are a dime a dozen, unlimited parole on Earth?

Remember, we conservatives have pretty much learned that parole almost never works, right? You don't let an unrepentant, evil, serial... EVERYTHING... out on the streets! YOU LOCK THEM AWAY FOR GOOD, or if you have to, you frag them!

That's like allowing somebody convicted of child abuse to run a damn DAYCARE, for Chrissakes!!!

Satan: God's Willie Horton.

[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited March 22, 2001).]

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I think a religious argument framed in bizarre Newsmax v. Mother Jones terms has to be the most curious thing I've seen all week.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

23 hours since I said all that, and no incoming fire...

Hope Omega's not sick or something.

Maybe he's looking for a smarter theologian.

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Okzimmeran alert.

-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

I been busy.

God made the minelayer, and gave him free reign to sow his mines.

It's called FREE WILL. Satan's got it, too. God doesn't interfere with his creations, except to do them the VERY occasional frikin' big favor. One of the keys to it all is that what happens on earth doesn't matter all that much. God may very well allow me to be run over by a bus (HEY! Stop that cheering, you guys.), but really, it's not going to affect ME that much.

You don't let an unrepentant, evil, serial... EVERYTHING... out on the streets! YOU LOCK THEM AWAY FOR GOOD

Which will be done. Give him a few millenia, Rob.

The Bible clearly states that Adam and Eve had to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil BEFORE they knew the difference between right and wrong.

Ah, not quite. They knew about sin. Sin is doing something God tells you not to. They knew God's command, they knew the consequences. They weren't quite as innocent as you think.

The problem with your analogy is that a four-year-old has many experiences already. We're talking about someone with adult understanding, but no experience. You can't say how they'd react.

Another thing: Satan wouldn't quite qualify as an adult. He'd be more like a somewhat bigger kid.

God places extreme value on our free will. We, as a race, CHOSE death, way back in Eden, and death we shall have.

Modify the analogy somewhat: God sends the kid into the playroom, gives him the instructions, and then absolutely promises to let him play, and not to inerfere unless asked. He can't break his word, even if the child hurts himself by disobedience; unless, of course, the child ASKS for help.

We damned ourselves back there. We skinned our knees on a terrible, cosmic level. God's standing right in front of you, ready to heal you, but you refuse to take the bandage.

The child analogy is appropriate indeed.

------------------
"Omega is right."
-Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

quote:
We damned ourselves back there. We skinned our knees on a terrible, cosmic level.

No I didn't.

quote:
Which will be done. Give him a few millenia, Rob.

Hasn't that guy in the sky had a few millenia already? Maybe he's just having fun watching us all suffer and he's munching on some popcorn or something.

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 23, 2001).]

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

"God doesn't interfere with his creations, except to do them the VERY occasional frikin' big favor."

Unless you're Job, or some other poor schmuck He decides to 'test'.
Or unless you believe that prayers are answered. DO YOU? Because that's interference, m'boy.

"Which will be done. Give him a few millenia, Rob."

Seems like he's already HAD the entire span of human history. 'someday' isn't good enough. What, God can't manage this? after 10,000 years?? Get with the program!

"a four-year-old has many experiences already."

Not enough to keep him from telling when he's being lied to by an adult or a 'bigger kid.'
If you think differently, you've never known a 4-year old who believed in Santa Claus or whose older sibling told them fibs like 'mom and dad are aliens.'

"We're talking about someone with adult understanding, but no experience."

An impossibility. It is ONLY through our experiences that we gain understanding. A person can have the BRAIN of an adult, but without human experience that person is a WILD animal, like the wolf boy of France.

"You can't say how they'd react."

I'll bet I can... I'll bet anybody with a brief background in pasic human psychology can. And I'll bet it's exactly what DID happen. They didn't understand, so they were fooled.

"Satan wouldn't quite qualify as an adult. He'd be more like a somewhat bigger kid.'

Yeah, a spoiled kid with the power of the whole Q Continuum. And whose never been taught proper discipline.
Oompa-Loomaspeak: "Who do you blame when a kid is a brat? ..... the mother and the father..."

"God places extreme value on our free will."

Except when He doesn't, like repeatedly 'hardening pharoah's heart' every time he decided to let the children of Israel go, because he wanted 'to make an example' of Egypt. There's no value of free will there. God should've let the Pharoah stick to his decision to let the people go. But He didn't, just to show off His power.

YOUR analogy once again leaves out the incredibly neglectful aspects of letting someone else whose KNOWN intention is corruption and harm (Satan) into the room and giving them free reign to tell any lie to an inexperienced child.

No parent could act that way and deserve the title. No parent deserving of the name would refuse to aid their child unless ASKED.

I CAN give you an example of a parent who DOES act that way... the young mother who leaves her baby in the hands of her live-in (for three weeks) drunken boyfriend while she goes out. And the guy ends up abusing or killing the kid.

We know wnough not to blame the child. We know that it's the boyfriend's fault for malice, AND the mother's fault for having incredibly POOR judgement.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

"'Satan wouldn't quite qualify as an adult. He'd be more like a somewhat bigger kid.'

'Yeah, a spoiled kid with the power of the whole Q Continuum. And whose never been taught proper discipline.'"

So if the first humans had been Eve and Patrick Stewart, good ol Satan would have enjoyed sparring with the first man, and would have turned out to be an okay bloke who just appeared now and again for comic relief and humourous site-gags?

Now, I've tried to pay attention here, but apart from noticing that people are being rather unfair on Omega (sitting their saying "no, you're wrong, because God is a big silly man who's not real." is just as bad as saying "no, you're wrong, because guns are good. I am the last!"), but I haven't succeeded.

Instead, I have spent the last two pages wondering about the following connection.

Lesbianism = wiccaness

Look at the evidence! Willow (cute lesbian!), Quatre's boyfriend (male lesbian!), Tara (annoying lesbian who can't do anything apart from walk around going "I'm a lesbian! And a witch! Aren't I annoyingly lesbian-esk?", Lee, and those women from that movie!

Searching for a common factor, I can only find "bad taste in clothes". But if that's true, how come Simon isn't a Wicca? Or a lesbian?

[This message has been edited by PsyLiam (edited March 25, 2001).]

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Ah. But does all black clothing count as Witchcraft? I've read that sometimes the color Black is used to make someone appear larger and more imposing (re: Raiders), but why would Simon want to appear larger?

-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.

Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :

Hmmm.

I wear black most of the time and I still look SMALL.

Dammit.

------------------
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!

Posted by The Talented Mr. Gurgeh (Member # 318) on :

I think black makes you look smaller. Women often wear black to hide their figure.

------------------
"If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing."

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Black makes you hard to see at night. It's good for covert surveillance and nighttime combat exercises, but not so good for Trick-or-treating.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Black's also good to wear if you have no fashion sense, because it's "safe". It's hard to go wrong when you spend all your days looking like an SAS commando. Although other people will begin to think that your soul is the same colour as your jumper.

Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :

Whew, having multiple essays can take you out for weeks.

Liam: You may be on to something about the lesbian=wicca thing. Half the girls in my pagan group are lesbian or bi (none of the guys though). But that MAY just be because nobody tells them they're going to hell around here.

This Bible stuff is boring. I think I'll throw some info around to stir things up.

1. Jesus was misquoted. He of all people wouldn't have told others to worship him, but rather believe in themselves (I forget the exact words). He was the son of God as we all are sons and daughters of God. He performed miracles that are possible for anyone to perform.

2. The Holocaust happened as a manifestation of prejudices in the world and was intended to teach the world about prejudice (We haven't learned much). Hitler was a great soul who came to do just that and who was willing to be hated by the world for years to come.

3. Desire can't help but become reality.

4. Babies think they are dying at the moment before they exit the womb.

Enjoy.

------------------
"There comes a time when the mind takes on a higher plane of knowledge but can never prove how it got there. All great discoveries have involved such a leap."
--Albert Einstein, on intuition.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

(This message savagely edited due to lack of sleep.)

[This message has been edited by Sol System (edited April 01, 2001).]

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Well, who can argue with that?

------------------
Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

Well, as of this minute I'm defying the internet gods and taking my book out in the park to read in the sun on this beautiful sunday. HA! I WIN! (Believe it or not, this is not an april fools joke).

------------------
Don't kill me, I'm charming!

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

It's cloudy here. Grrr.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Adding something to Tora's point no 1, Jesus almost always referred to himself as The Son of Man, rather than Son of God. I wonder why...

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Just to put something kinda funny in the mix. From Dave Barry's 19 Things It Took 50 Years To Learn:

5. And when God, who created the entire universe with all of its glories, decides to deliver a message to humanity, He WILL NOT use, as His messenger, a person on cable TV with a bad hairstyle.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Denis Leary said it *paraphrased*

Mary's got a big enough budget, she's not gonna appear of some fucking MUFFIN in TIAJUANA! She's gonna show up during the opening credits of "Air Force One," She's gonna be 20 feet tall, and she's gonna say "HEY!! STOP PUTTING SHIT IN THE COFFEE!!"