-Any place that still has it is uncivilized and does not belong in this modern world.
Ready.... Set.... GO!!!!
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"Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"
-Nimrod 16/4/2001
Do you have any IDEA what you may have just opened up?!??
I've already said I have mixed feelings about the death penalty. I think it's skewed, so that often minorities seem to be unfairly targeted by it.
Also, I think it shouldn't be used in any cases where there is the SLIGHTEST doubt as to a person's innocence: for instance, if the convicting evidence was entirely circumstantial. Or if the person is permanently mentally incompetent (Down's Syndrome, for example.)
On the other hand, if they found the guy still stabbing the victim, I don't see how the question would matter. Fry 'im.
Show me another method of punishment that guarantees that that person never commits such a crime again, and perhaps I'll change my opinion.
"Capital Punishment: making the world safer, one scumbag at a time."
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The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited April 26, 2001).]
Funny, I'd just assume that minorities commited more crimes worthy of the death penalty, and work from there. The vast majority of murders are commited by black people, you know. Relative to their segment of the population, of course.
*Thwacks infinity with a rather large herring*
For reasons Rob stated.
You do realize, of course, that JeffK will come here as soon as he gets to the forums next, and turn this into an Omega-bashfest. He has a bad habit of doing that.
To save him the trouble, his opening post will go something like, "The Bible says 'Thou shalt not kill'! You're a hypocrite!" In fact, that will be the content of ALL his posts, regardless of what, or if, I reply. I have thus saved him the trouble of participating in this thread at all. Perhaps he will now find something more productive to do with his time.
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"Omega is right."
-Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM
I have to agree with first of two. If the guy was caught in the act fry'em. There are way to many serial killers locked up in prison. They have been convicted several times of murder, they should be killed.
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Aaahhh Worf, eat any good books lately - Q from Q less
You are concerned about killing an innocent man. I'm just concerned about killing anyone. I don't think I have that right. Nor does anyone else.
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You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston."
-Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
Hate to say this, Omega, but since you said it.....
That was a very racist, prejudicial, and stereotypical remark. Vast Majority? VAST MAJORITY? We'd oughta beat the crap outta ya for saying that. But of course, I have a measure of restraint. Even if one ethnic group committed one more crime than a second does not give you the right to say that the first commits more crimes or kills more people, etc. Wonder how you would feel if everyone said what you just did, except it was about WHITES.
Back on topic. My opinion? Like First said. There are people around here that I believe that should be fried beyond recognition. And there are people who have been wrongly convicted due to circumstance. Imagine frying them only to find out 10 seconds later that he was actually innocent all the way.
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"In a completely unrelated news story, I have a date tomorrow night."
- Omega, in trying to explain why pigs are now flying, why Microsoft products are now working perfectly, hell freezing over, and George W Bush giving a flawless speech. 04/06/01, 12:17AM
[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited April 26, 2001).]
If there is any doubt in the conviction for murder - don't kill 'em. But if there is absolutely no doubt - shoot 'em, fry 'em, pump 'em with poison - whatever - one less nasty person in the world and it will act as an insentive not to kill. Plus the criminals are not punished enough - suspended sentences, small fines, short-term bans from driving, etc. It just takes the piss! If I were to do one little thing wrong (which I won't) I'd get the book thown at me - but some serial criminal would get a 3 months suspended sentence - Jeez! Where's the fairness in that?
Then there is the problem of teenage births - UK got rid of the law preventing abortions - teenage pregnacy rate went through the roof! Now the government is moaning - stupid sods. If they weren't so bloody soft in the first place, we wouldn't have a lot of the problems that we have today! High number of pregnant teenagers, overcrowed prisons, high unemployment . . . Jeez! I could go on but I'd probably have a heart attack and at 21, that ain't good! 
(I shall now take a rest from my 'slagging off the UK government' and 'the law in general' to let someone else vent some steam! )
I also think rapists and child molesters should be castrated, either physically or chemically.
And yes, I am absolutly serious.
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In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!
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"In a completely unrelated news story, I have a date tomorrow night."
- Omega, in trying to explain why pigs are now flying, why Microsoft products are now working perfectly, hell freezing over, and George W Bush giving a flawless speech. 04/06/01, 12:17AM
[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited April 26, 2001).]
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You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston."
-Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
Regular or Extra Crispy
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God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference.
Mind you we won't be totally sure it works without telepaths...
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"Of course I'm paranoid! Everyone's trying to kill me."
- Weyoun, "Treachery, Faith, and the Great River"
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"Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
I also think rapists and child molesters should be castrated, either physically or chemically.
Does that include the two gay guys that raped and killed that ten year old in CA a while back? Just curious.
Fab:
You want an affective alternative to capital punishment? How about death of personality?
Like a frontal lobotomy, you mean?
Tahna:
Wonder how you would feel if everyone said what you just did, except it was about WHITES.
I'd point out that they were wrong, because the statistic would be incorrect in that case. I wouldn't particularly take offense that they'd said it about white people, because I DON'T CARE about skin color. I made no statement about black people in general, nor did I make any statement about a specific black person that was not based upon personal knowledge (or anything else, for that matter). I simply stated a statistic. A true one. You're being just a BIT touchy, Tahna.
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"Omega is right."
-Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM
Of course, you should also realize the reason we use the death penalty for retribution instead of justice is because for many people that commit crimes worthy of capital punishment, the death penalty ISN'T A DETERRENT. They would go and kill or rape or whatever regardless of the consequences.
And also, because one person did something horrible, taking another person's life, what right does that give US to take their lives? Does that make us any better than them, saying "HA HA! You're going to be DEAD! We revel in you death knowing that the world is a happier place without you!" And don't tell me that isn't the underlying thing you think when someone is going to be executed. You aren't thinking, "Poor person." You're thinking, "REVENGE IS OURS!!" To think that about someone does not make us look very good.
I do not support the death penalty simply for the reason that I know people can change. It happens folks. Even those who feel no remorse for those they've killed may one day change. What right to we have to take away that opportunity? If they become better people, become a BENEFIT to society, can we really kill them off?
Do we have the right, even as a people, to play god with other people's lives? To decide their fate? Do we have the right to do that?
Er, really? That'd be why the US has such a low crime-rate then, wouldn't it.
You could make a point for Rob's oft-quoted "It'll reduce the crime-rate by 1!" thing, but I don't think it especially works as a deterrent. Not more so than other forms of punishments which non US-constitutioned countries have.
"Until then...Regular or Extra Crispy"
Wow. Someone has (for the first time), managed to post something that has actually offended me. Well done.
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You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston."
-Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
*shrug* You wanna ignore the Bible, be my guest. You seem to like making excuses for why God doesn't mind people violating his Ten Commandments, even though you claim to love God. Please, explain to me, why does God not disaprove of the Death Penalty?
You know, I actually was going to leave this thread alone, but since Omega threw out the invite, why stay away, right?
Omega's posts here as well as his views on the current slavery discussion have led me to conclude he's a racist, although I don't think he realizes it yet. Hopefully, he will make a determined effort to stop thinking such vile and despicable thoughts (possibly, he'll even join the human race at some point).
Arguing with Omega is like trying to reason with Gowron. He's too thick-headed to listen to that which makes sense. This concludes my Omega bashing for this thread, which, I might add, I would not have begun if Omega had not, in effect, begged me too. Did it not seem like that to you, too? I must also admit that I had previously thought that Omega did not like me much, however, by his plea for my company, I am led to believe that Omega wishes me to Man-Train with him. I shall, no doubt to his dissapointment, decline that invitation. Mostly, because I do not like to drive south of Rosslyn, Virginia. Also, because I do not like the Man-Train. I prefer the Man/Woman-Train.
Oh, yes, we're speaking of the Death Penalty, aren't we?
I'm opposed to the DP for the reasons stated so very well by so many people. I think it is skewed against minorities, but then again, I feel the whole system of Justice in this country is skewed towards those with more money -- more money, better lawyers. No money, freebie lawyers. Gee, wonder who'd be better? (Especially given that the Defense Counsels provided by the state are usually very overworked).
I also think it's more punishing to make someone live a long life in a tiny cell, then execute them. I know if I had the choice between life in a cell, or death, I'd choose death because, frankly, I'd hate to spend my whole life in a jail. It would be the ultimate punishment -- and that's why I'm against the DP.
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited April 26, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited April 26, 2001).]
Yes I do. I play no favourites. You kill unjustifiably, you die.
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In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
Back to the point at hand. The death penalty is barbaric. I ask you this, what does the US, Iran, Saudi Arabia and China have in common? They're the leaders in state murder (aka the death penalty) in the world. Civilized countries do NOT have the death penalty for crimes (during peacetime). As Liam said, if the death penalty is such a detterent, then why does the US have such a high crime rate? The two industrialized countries with the highest crime rates are US and Russia, which both have the death penalty. Western Europe, which has abolished the death penalty, has lower crime rates.
America still executes people for crimes during peacetime. America still executes the mentally ill and those under the age of 18, which are both considered crimes under international law. Life without parole is not that bad an alternative. Because if the government acting in our name kills even one innocent man, then we are all bloodguilty. And I for one do not want to be... until I take my Glock 9 and stick it down that racist gaybashing Omega's throat.
*the above post contained certain satirical elements*
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"A mass of tears have been transformed to stones now, sharpened on suffering and woven into slings"
Zack de la Rocha
Rage Against the Machine
Don't you mean that we execute people for crimes committed while they were under the age of 18?
I don't think we actually execute people before they're at least 18 (unless they're black and running from cops, but that's another thread).
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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
This particular gayboy don't play no favourites.
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In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!
[This message has been edited by Quatre Winner (edited April 27, 2001).]
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"Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited April 27, 2001).]
Enough with the love fest, continue to show Omega where he is in error.
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I'll kill you, you bloated museum of treachery!
~ C. Montgomery Burns
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"Goverment exists to serve, not to lead. We do not exist by its volition, it exists by ours. Bear that in mind when you insult your neighbors for refusing to bow before it." J. Richmond
I don't know why death penality does not work in the US (possibilly because most scum bags are just as well armed as the local polices?), but death penality sure works for other country, Singapore ------------------ But now I'll do something different. I'll attack it using Christianity. Matthew 5 Dear Religious Right: Please shut up. ------------------ [This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited April 27, 2001).]
------------------ Was it really necessary, in the middle of an argument about the Death Penalty, for you to inform us all that you are not gay, Jeff? You know, it's interesting how people arguing against the Death Penalty are going for Omega. There are lots of other people who agree with it, you know. Yet no-one wants to argue with First of Two. Hmm. Also, is it really necessary for you lot to adopt a mob-mentality, and stand on the virtual street corners shouting "Omega's a racist!"? It doesn't help anything. The only thing he's said that even close to that is that black people, in the US, commit more murders than white people, relative to their segment of the population. Now, assuming that's true, stating the facts doesn't actually make him a racist, does it? If I said "Black people can't swim as well as white people, on average", that's not being racist. That's pointing out a fact. BlueElectron: I didn't think that Japan had the death penalty. I could be wrong. Although, to be fair, you are living in a time when the USSR still exists, so your information could be out of date. ------------------ >"why does God not disaprove of the Death Penalty?" Because HE frags people right and left, and incites his followers to do so as well, (which you'd know if you'd read any bits of the Bibble beyond what they put Charlton Heston in.) According to the FBI's crime statistics (you can go look them up for yourself), somewhere around 50% of murders (I actually can't remember if it was 54% or 45%, so I picked halfway in between) in the US are committed by Blacks. So far, so good. Then, we look at US population statistics, and notice that Blacks make up only about 12% of the population. Which means, no matter how you look at it, that the rate IS disproportionately higher, like it or not. As for Omega's 'homophobism': I put it to you that, despite all the high-horse attitudes here, many activists WOULD 'play favorites' with their group-of-choice, and Omega's rightfully pointing that out. [This message has been edited by First of Two (edited April 27, 2001).]
Then you have the ways in which you all attempt to justify your viewpoints, all of which are flawed. I'll explain: Statistical Statistics can say whatever you like. And they're probably painting an incorrect picture anyway. Consider, how many crimes are reported? How many crimes have the perpetrators identified (whether coorectly or not), how many lead to arrests, to charges, to trial, to conviction, to sentencing, to punishment, to appeal, to rehabilitation? Add to that morass such factors as the race of the victims, the race of the perpetrators, the race (or racial attitudes) of the police. Each separate crime is different if not unique. How do you then lump them together into percentages that say the death penalty is effective or not? No, much as it's distasteful to admit it, Rob's assertion that "that's one person who won't kill anyone again" is the only sure thing. But suppose they could be successfully rehabilitated? Shouldn't you at least try? Ethical If you look below you'll see I'm following up with "Moral" - so, to clarify, by "Ethical" I mean concerns of a religious nature. Again, where do you start? The religious attitudes of the victim, the perpetrator, the lawmaker/law-interpreter? The overall or dominant religion of the State assuming there isn't a clear constitutional separation of such? To elucidate, I'm an atheist. Why should I care what the Bible says (and also doesn't say, given it contradicts itself so much)? Moral There are certain attitudes that could be said to transcend religious concerns. I'd like to think it's from here that law itself springs. But again, morality can be greatly influenced by culture, upbringing, etc. . . The best example of what I mean here is Liam's statement that no-one should have the right to take the life of another - a statement with which I agree. *** So. You can debate using one or all of the above argumental jumping-off points. But ultimately it just comes down to your own opinion. ------------------ But now I�ve brought Star Trek into it again, haven�t I. Sorry." - James Lileks, 09/04/2001
The reason I'm not "bashing" Rob is because Rob's first post in this thread wasn't: You do realize, of course, that JeffK will come here as soon as he gets to the forums next, and turn this into an Omega-bashfest. I mean, honestly, when he's downright BEGGING people to make it an Omega-bash, what do you expect? ------------------ Durned MSIE, doesn't have an "undo" button... Please, explain to me, why does God not disaprove of the Death Penalty? I already have, at least twice. But YET again... The Bible doesn't say, "Thou shalt not kill." The Bible says, "Thou shalt not murder." You're clinging to a very old mistranslation, just like the Catholics do with, "Hail, Mary, full of grace." You'll seem so much bigger if you learn to admit your mistakes, Jeff. If you don't, then you just lose more and more credibility the longer you hold onto a defeated premise. I actually was going to leave this thread alone, but since Omega threw out the invite I didn't invite you. I told you to find something productive to do with your time, because we all know what you're going to say already. Omega's posts here as well as his views on the current slavery discussion have led me to conclude he's a racist, although I don't think he realizes it yet. *L* Then you have an odd definition of "racism". You CAN NOT be racist and not know it. That's like saying there can be racism without racist people. It's stupid. Have I said anything about black people, as a generality? Have I indicated in any way that I give a darn about race? No. I am therefore not racist, no matter what you may think. To quote Da'an, "You may wish to find me guilty, but I have commited no crime." I point out that this is straight out of liberalism's playbook: race card. Very unoriginal. Next should be some sort of class warfare. QW: I play no favourites. Glad to hear it. You, sir, are one of the more rational liberals I know, and I salute you for it. *scrolls down* ... DT? Is that you? I thought you said that we were messing up your karma, or something? Finally ditch the Hindu thing, did we? So how ya doin'? Still spewing your irrational blather, I see. Omega is both a homophobe and a racist You base this on what? That is why I support the death penalty, to put garbage like Omega out of their pitiful existence. Yeah, and you supported private gun ownership for the express purpose of overthrowing the government and replacing it with communism. It's all about you, isn't it? Whatever bugs you. What about how the rest of us feel? Keep in mind, this is the same man who once said that blacks are poor because they're lazy and stupid. You got a quote on that? I'd defend myself, but the attack is so general it'd be pointless. For all I know, you're making something up. didn't Omega also once defend the Rodney King beating? No, I defended the fact that the officers involved were found not to be guilty of trying to kill him. The beating itself was inexcusable, understandable though it was (if you know the facts of the case, of course). The prosecutor just got greedy. America still executes the mentally ill and those under the age of 18 Never heard that one. Example? Life without parole is not that bad an alternative. Except for costs, possibility of escape, the fact that NO ONE doesn't get parole anymore, etc. I'm with the rest of the group, though. You're just not up to your usual standards of irrationality. Maybe you just poked your head in, and found a kindred spirit in JK? I'm just curious, doesn't USSR have a way better crime rate then Russia nowaday?? Probably. Terror is an effective way of reducing the crime rate. But then, the USSR imprisoned how many thousand innocent people? And killed how many million? Tom: Oh, you want me to try legislate my religious beliefs, then, do you? Well, OK, sure, that means you have to love everyone, and devote your life to God, by law. And you can't get abortions, by law. And you can't have pre-marital sex, by law. Sound good to you? Liam: Thank you for attempting to return some sanity to this discussion. Fo2: Mayhaps that's because I tend to take a more reasoned balance. Or I argue better. Well, gee, thanks, Rob. What am I? Chopped liver? Lee: Why should I care what the Bible says (and also doesn't say, given it contradicts itself so much) I'm starting a new thread, just because you ticked me off with that comment, and I don't feel like getting this one off topic. I'm getting tired of people saying the Bible contradicts itself, without having the evidence to back that up. Put up or shut up, you guys. ------------------ George W. Bush is no stranger to the executions of mentally-ill people. I do believe he got in a bit of a scandal over the execution of Georgia Faye Tucker, correct? You've still yet to prove to me why God approves of the Death Penalty. You once said that you considered the DP immoral, Omega, but you accepted it because it was, in your opinion, the only viable option. Therefore, it stands to reason that God finds it immoral, as well. If He didn't find it immoral, why would you? You've changed your mind -- you don't view it as immoral anymore, but has God changed His? Omega, I hate to break it to you, but when you throw down the challenge in your first post, it's clear you want us to come and make fun of you so you can start crying and whining about how unfair life is. *shrug* You know, news-flash here, but YOU turned it into an Omega-bash thread. Not me. Yeah. I wonder why I would think you're racist. First, you try and justify the owning of slaves. In this country (and, since we're both in the US, and were talking about Tom Jefferson), slavery is a very racist institution. You don't see a lot of white slaves. Now, this might just be me, but slavery = racist. Those who defend slavery, = racists. I'm sure you're in denial about that, but, hey, that's life. The_Tom is inquiring how, if you're such a religious person, you can support laws that your religion doesn't. Maybe you go to church every Sunday, but if you go out supporting laws that He doesn't like, I don't think your church attendence is going to help you much at the end of your life. No, you're not chopped liver. But you sure do make yourself look like it with some of your comments. ------------------ Yes you can. Best Example, my mom. She holds EXTREME stereotypical views about all cultures and thinks that the Chinese Culture is the best and the ideal. Yet she claims she's not racist. Go figure. So I shot that argument down. Defense anyone? Fo2: Mayhaps that's because I tend to take a more reasoned balance. Or I argue better. Or maybe I'm just right. Reasoned Balance. Don't you think it's why a good portion of the people here agree with your views? ------------------ [This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited April 27, 2001).]
Omega, i'm NOT a liberal. True, there are some issues that I tend to be more liberal with, such as gay rights, etc. But there are some that I can be quite conservative on, such as the death penalty, abortion, what have you. I think I see myself as more libertarian than anything else. But overall, I really don't identify with ANY political group. There are some Democrats I do like and there are some Republicans that I like as well. It's all a matter of finding some kind of balance that works for me. ------------------ ------------------ ------------------ -Nimrod 16/4/2001 slavery = racist. Those who defend slavery, = racists You are incapable of thought. There, now that that's out of the way, let me address the sentient beings here. The defense of slavery is wrong. The defense of THE OWNERSHIP OF SLAVES, done in such a manner that it did not perpetuate slavery, and in fact helped to end it, is a completely different concept. The_Tom is inquiring how, if you're such a religious person, you can support laws that your religion doesn't. And I answered him. QW: True, there are some issues that I tend to be more liberal with, such as gay rights, etc. But there are some that I can be quite conservative on, such as the death penalty, abortion Those aren't conservative or liberal issues. Yeah, one position or the other might be held by one side or the other IN GENERAL, but it's not by definition. How do you feel about the size of government? ------------------ (I read this in "Ebony," so it must be at least partially true...) Slavery as an institution is not racist. People of all colors and nationalities, at one time or another have participated against the slave trade, usually trafficking in their own race and people. The first blacks to arrive on the shores of the United States were free men, not slaves. However, slavery became part of a self-perpetuating racist ideology, at least partly because of the poor quality of educational opportunities for freed OR captive blacks, (It's harder to teach an adult to read than a child, it's harder to teach a free adult ex-slave than it is a child in either condition), and perhaps by the religious beliefs of some southerners (There's some passage in the story about Noah about dark-skinned people being meant to be servants because Ham messed up or some rot.) Also, probably some of the more infant sciences of the time (genetics, sociology, etc.) contributed to the image of blacks being less civilized and thusly less civilize-ABLE. ------------------ All in all, I think the size of guv'ment should reflect what is neccesary for it's citizens, no more, no less. And seeing how we have a country of 260 million + people, well, for the most part I think the current size is allright. Though it could use a bit of a nip and tuck here and there. ------------------ There's some passage in the story about Noah about dark-skinned people being meant to be servants because Ham messed up or some rot Ah, yes, Canaan, Ham's son. He was cursed because Noah couldn't bring himself to curse his own son. Now whether God carrys through on Noah's curses, I don't know. ------------------ ------------------ But we digress. ------------------ Unfortunately, I cannot be the same old DT. I have been tempered by my time in the pen - err, I mean, hell yeah, jail! (not really, but I can't divulge where I've been lately). And if you're wondering, I'm back by popular demand (one person, okay, but still....) JR: It is hard to tell which parts are satirical and which ones you actually mean. I agree with Ultra Magnus... You came back...for that? Now, to reply to my buddy Omega's comments. "DT? Is that you? I thought you said that we were messing up your karma, or something? Finally ditch the Hindu thing, did we? So how ya doin'? Still spewing your irrational blather, I see." "'Omega is both a homophobe and a racist' You base this on what?" "Yeah, and you supported private gun ownership for the express purpose of overthrowing the government and replacing it with communism. It's all about you, isn't it? Whatever bugs you. What about how the rest of us feel?" "You got a quote on that?" "Never heard that one. Example?" "Except for costs, possibility of escape, the fact that NO ONE doesn't get parole anymore, etc." "I'm with the rest of the group, though. You're just not up to your usual standards of irrationality. Maybe you just poked your head in, and found a kindred spirit in JK?" And for the record, I am NOT a liberal. I curse anyone who dare insinuate that! I am a communist! I am NOT A LIBERAL! Thank you ------------------
Yeah, I love you, too, Dan. I realize my karma is improved by ridding the world of a young A.S. Chamberlain. Ah, but only if you THINK it's improved. I know you. Uh... no. You don't. JK? Jeff Kardde. Get to know him. You two have a lot in common. I am a communist! Even though you once admitted that communism could never work? And, oh, wait, you also said that socialism was the next best thing, so I guess that DOES make you a liberal! Wish my Mac has ICQ records going back that far... Hey, Daryus, I told you about that conversation. See if you can find evidence of what I'm talking about. ------------------ Omega, I'm so proud ------------------ Omega, did you adress that to "the rest of the group"? You claim that most people end up criticizing you irrationally (and for no other reason than that they don't want to admit they're wrong)? JeffK/DT: No offense, guys, but you're not exactly improving le situation. ------------------ ------------------ -Nimrod 16/4/2001 Omega, did you adress that to "the rest of the group"? No, I addressed it to DT. ------------------ However I'll see if I can confirm the statement, if not post it. ------------------ "Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
------------------ ------------------ ------------------ "...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV ------------------
------------------ ------------------ Tom: I'm pretty sure Omega once said that that "turn the other cheek" thing is the only command he doesn't obey. Jesus is probably spinning on his throne. Omega: Gee, let me get this straight. You love everybody...wait, that's not right. You "can't" truly hate anybody (those aren't the same thing, you know). Yet you support the death penalty. But why would you want to see a person die if you don't truly hate him? Can you say hypocrisy? By the way, it is also racist to say "race doesn't matter" (although that is different from "I don't care about races"), because it does (and that's coming from people with experience, not me). How many non-white friends do you have in reality, anyway? How could you understand what it feels like to be black in a predominantly white society? Liam: I think people target Omega because he's claiming one thing with his religion and then turning around saying killing can be justified. Fo2 and others just plain justify killing. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Tora Ziyal (edited April 30, 2001).]
That == extreme humor. *LOL* ------------------ As for my religious beliefs, I really must write a manefesto some time and post it on the web, so I won't have to keep explaining this every time the topic comes up. I don't want to see anyone die. However, that is based on my religious beliefs, and I can not, in good consence, try to have my religious beliefs turned into law. I must seperate my religious beliefs from my political ones, to some degree, or I really WOULD be a hypocrite. I'd be advocating blatant unconstitutionality. And where would I draw the line? Again, should I fight to have pre-marital sex outlawed? Lying? NOT turning the other cheek? ------------------ Where do you draw the line? At DEATH, obviously. That's a pretty thick line. Oh, and some forms of lying have already been legislated. Perjury, for one. You can tell when a religious rule is not limited to your religion, can't you? ------------------ [This message has been edited by Tora Ziyal (edited April 30, 2001).]
(Guest): *raises finger* -Aha! antisemitism! ------------------ Can you say practicality? One does not have to hate to kill. I'm capable of hate. But usually I don't want to kill the people I hate. Usually I want to torture them just enough so that they ALMOST die, let them heal, rinse, repeat. That's much more satisfying that straight killing. I don't have to hate someone to kill them. All that is required is that I see them as a significant threat. It's a matter of balance... is the world a significantly safer place for innocents if this individual ceases to exist? If it is, then the solution becomes obvious. There's no point in wasting energy feeling about it. ------------------ ------------------ ------------------ [This message has been edited by First of Two (edited May 01, 2001).]
------------------ Wait, I meant not me! ------------------
!! Warning: Contoversial, Flip Answer And Not Necessarily One I Agree With !! Because he/she/it cannot be turned into a productive member of society and thus to expend resources on keeping them alive is a waste. We do it to animals. Sorry, guys, but I felt that needed to be said, even though it's somehat to the right of Genghis Khan. *readies himself for firing squad*
------------------ First: You remind me of Satan in Paradise Lost. ------------------ It wasn't being civilized - it was political manoeuvring. BTW: guess who's country still has the Death Penalty? YEP!! There's a referendum in a few months to see what to do about it. ------------------ "Let me make this clear: I am the law! I am your ruler! And you will have fries with that, motherf*cker!"
I'm afraid "Paradise Lost" is still on my to-read list. What exactly makes me like Satan, Tora? The first true revolutionary? "Well, better to reign in Hell, eh?" ------------------ ------------------ -Nimrod 16/4/2001
What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
You've heard me attack the death penalty citing examples of nations other than the United States. You've heard me attack it citing International law and Amnesty International. You've heard me attack it citing cases of wrongful convinction here in Canada.
quote:
(38) "You have heard that it was said, `Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' (39) But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (40) And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. (41) If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. (42) Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. (43) "You have heard that it was said, `Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' (44) But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, (45) that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
"I can be creative when I have a good idea. That just happens way too rarely."
-Omega, April 6
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Clarification: I believe that the death penalty should only be reserved for the lowest of the low. Serial rapists and murderers, Racial Murderers, and the like. A man killing his wife during a marital dispute does not, in my eyes, warrant a death penalty. He should be left to rot in his own personal hell in that cell of his.
"In a completely unrelated news story, I have a date tomorrow night."
- Omega, in trying to explain why pigs are now flying, why Microsoft products are now working perfectly, hell freezing over, and George W Bush giving a flawless speech. 04/06/01, 12:17AM
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
"I do not like the Man-Train. I prefer the Man/Woman-Train."
You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston."
-Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Liam: nobody wants to fight with me! waaaah!
Mayhaps that's because I tend to take a more reasoned balance. Or I argue better. Or maybe I'm just right.
As for calling Omega a racist, one has to wonder at that... is a statement racist if it's true?
------------------
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Problem with this issue is, there are so many different viewpoints about it. You have the both extremes, and various stages in between - we've seen advocates of all of them post here.
"It strikes me that there are enough episodes of the Simpsons that people could speak entirely in Simpsonese, using references from the show to explain or describe an endless series of situations. Nelson and Apu . . . at Tinagra.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Liam,
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
*grumbles*
"Omega is right."
-Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
And so they have.
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Omega: Then you have an odd definition of "racism". You CAN NOT be racist and not know it. That's like saying there can be racism without racist people. It's stupid.
"In a completely unrelated news story, I have a date tomorrow night."
- Omega, in trying to explain why pigs are now flying, why Microsoft products are now working perfectly, hell freezing over, and George W Bush giving a flawless speech. 04/06/01, 12:17AM
Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :
*AHEM*
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Omega stereotypes all gays as liberal, me thinks. Of course, when you denounced the Republican Party with Troll -- or whatever his name is -- you probably helped that impression
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :
all this havoc, my work here is done
"Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
JK:
"Omega is right."
-Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
A correction of terminology:
In the US, slavery was not inherently racist. It was far more a matter of business and convenience. It was easier to send a ship to Africa, purchase some slaves from the local slavers (who were themselves black africans) and ship them back to the US then it was to convince people to become indentured servants and work for their passage.
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :
Omega: Size of government: Well, there are some Federal programmes that would be better suited if the States took more of a pro-active role, such as welfare refore, equal housing, stuff like that. And there are some programmes that only the Fed. Guv'ment are capable of dealing with, like the military. (I know these are prolly poor examples - i'm a bit pressed for long winded details.
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Ah, a moderate, then.
"Omega is right."
-Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM
Posted by Quatre Winner (Member # 464) on :
No, i'm not a moderate either. I'm independent.
In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Guy curses his own grandson, who didn't do a dang thing to him, and this Noah's a Biblical HERO?? The MORAL guy who God allowed to live and build an ark? man, the Lord must have been REALLY pressed for good guys in those days...
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
Posted by DT (Member # 80) on :
Yes, I'm back. In black. And you know I'm glad to be back cause I'm getting loose from - oh bloody hell, you all know the song!
Well, you see, I just wanted a nice part to enter back in on, and attacking Omega is always fun. That's what I missed most about Flare. I'd try to find people who are as idiotic, but, I go to college, it's tough! And I don't live in the deep south!
Liam: You know, it's interesting how people arguing against the Death Penalty are going for Omega. There are lots of other people who agree with it, you know. Yet no-one wants to argue with First of Two. Hmm.
Again, that's because I hate Omega with the fire of a thousand suns. That little Anton Drexler must be stamped out immediately.
Yes, it is me! Or, rather, I. And I realize my karma is improved by ridding the world of a young A.S. Chamberlain.
I know you. You can be a racist without admitting it, it's called the blind spot. See, unlike you, I've met black people and they notice these things, being black and all. And come on, do you really have no problem with homosexuality?
I'm very selfish.
I think it is still on the FMMP Forums.
Execution of the mentally ill is well documented, remember the 1992 elections? Wait, you were 6, you wouldn't. And I did mean for crimes committed under 18. US also executes citizens of other countries, which is pretty exceptional. Consider than Eammon De Valera lived simply because he was an American citizen. Britain was already more civilized 85 years ago.
Crap! Charlie Manson is out! Oh no! Wait... could it be that he got life with possibility of parole and just isn't released? Maybe... and if life without parole is such an impossible alternative, why does every civilized country in the world have it?
JK?
And I am sorry, I will try to be more irrational but... it's hard competing with you.
BTW, if the definition of conservative/liberal is size of government, wouldn't that make you a liberal? See, I feel that giving the government the power to take the lives of its own citizens is too much power in the hand of government. I guess a liberal like you would disagree.
"A mass of tears have been transformed to stones now, sharpened on suffering and woven into slings"
Zack de la Rocha
Rage Against the Machine
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I hate Omega with the fire of a thousand suns.
"Omega is right."
-Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
YOU SPELLED MY NAME RIGHT!
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
"I'm with the rest of the group, though. You're just not up to your usual standards of irrationality."
That kind of generalization sounds like the kind of mild paranoia that "Red Quacker" had. The only way to get on his good side was to worship him like the crusader he imagined he was.
Just an observation. He seemed to think about it as he never flamed me once. That, or he didn't listen.
Ah well, life's too short yaddah-yaddah...
Don't kill me, I'm charming!
Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :
Omega uses a Mac LOL Now I know, now I know.... LOL
"Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
USED a Mac. I haven't actually connected to the internet with the thing in months.
"How do you define fool?"
"I don't attempt it. I wait for demonstrations. They inevitably surpass my imagination."
- CJ Cherryh, Invader
Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :
Evidence of a conversation that you had with DT in private, that you'd like me to post? Didn't you start laying eggs when I used something you said to me over ICQ in a debate?
Re: Russia in WWII
- DT.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
No, no, I didn't want you to post the conversation. Just confirm that it happened.
"How do you define fool?"
"I don't attempt it. I wait for demonstrations. They inevitably surpass my imagination."
- CJ Cherryh, Invader
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Post it so we can see for ourselves.
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
We need proooof......
"One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget
Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant
Star Trek: Legacy
Read them, rate them, got money, film them
Posted by DT (Member # 80) on :
If I ever said communism wouldn't work it was said rhetorically. I am a communist, it is just that simple.
And I would never say "socialism is the next best thing" because, unlike you uneducated slobs (I'm referring to Omega and the voices in his head) I realize that socialism is not a seperate form of government but merely the lowest stage of communism.
"A mass of tears have been transformed to stones now, sharpened on suffering and woven into slings"
Zack de la Rocha
Rage Against the Machine
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I told you, I don't have ICQ records going back that far. Mac ICQ didn't have message history at the time, and I've since formatted my HD, anyway. But as I recall the conversation, you for whatever reason agreed with me that communism would never work in the real world, and thus I asked what you thought the next best option would be. You answered, "Socialism!" Check your ICQ records, if you have them.
"How do you define fool?"
"I don't attempt it. I wait for demonstrations. They inevitably surpass my imagination."
- CJ Cherryh, Invader
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
That almost sounds more like sarcasm, to me...
"Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow."
-Maynard James Keenan
Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :
For the record, I'm against the death penalty. It's wrong to end anybody's life prematurely, and since I believe death is not the end, the DP serves no point.
"There comes a time when the mind takes on a higher plane of knowledge but can never prove how it got there. All great discoveries have involved such a leap."
--Albert Einstein, on intuition.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Jesus is probably spinning on his throne."
"Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow."
-Maynard James Keenan
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I find that amusing, as well.
"How do you define fool?"
"I don't attempt it. I wait for demonstrations. They inevitably surpass my imagination."
- CJ Cherryh, Invader
Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :
Omega: Who supports a law he or she doesn't believe in? I don't see why fighting the death penalty makes you a hypocritic conservative, though supporting it does make a hypocritic Christian. Which is worse?
Or, as a third alternative, you can support neither side.
"There comes a time when the mind takes on a higher plane of knowledge but can never prove how it got there. All great discoveries have involved such a leap."
--Albert Einstein, on intuition.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Well, that's it for my synapses. I think premarital sex ban, I think "can't people stop judging what other people should do?". Then I think nazis, and "can't you let us believe what WE want???". I feel dirty, I don't want to be human anymore. I want to go with the coccoon people and dance with jewish aliens!
(Host) : -That's not antisemitism, that's not even a real nose! *yank*
Don't kill me, I'm charming!
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
>". But why would you want to see a person die if you don't truly hate him? Can you say hypocrisy?"
Truly, hate clouds the intellect, and makes killing more difficult.
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
But, if all that's required is to see someone as a threat, why do you need to kill someone who is locked up in prison?
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Practicality again. If it were adjudicated and carried out in a practical manner, (as per my previous statements on when the death penalty should be used)the expense would be far less.
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I'm wondering who of flare's alleged 500+ members is a serial killer...
Don't kill me, I'm charming!
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Me.
OH NO< THE OLD MAN WALKS HIS GREEN DOG THAT SHOTS PINBALLS!~!!!
--
Jeff K
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet" and nothing at all will happen.
Posted by Eclipse (Member # 472) on :
Jeff: "But, if all that's required is to see someone as a threat, why do you need to kill someone who is locked up in prison?"
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Feels good to have a group of people that relieves me of having to judge human value.
Don't kill me, I'm charming!
Posted by Diane (Member # 53) on :
Eclipse: Currently, executions are more costly than keeping someone in jail for life because of the appeal system.
"I was as dead as a lesbian black chick at a republican fundraiser."
--Burns Flipper, The Longest Journey
Posted by Gaseous Anomaly (Member # 114) on :
DT: Dev wasn't executed with the rest of the 1916 Easter Rising leaders because the UK wanted to bring the US into WWI, and killing Dev would have raised hell with American public opinion.
At that point, McDonald fired his gun three times in the air to emphasize his point. The crowd, estimated at 350,000, loudly cheered the new candidate.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
I've GOTTA hear THIS one.
Of course, it's isn't the first time someone's compared me to Lucifer.
A rebel against a tyrannical regime?
"W-whatever you say, Lord Lucifer."
"I didn't say it. Milton said it. And he was blind." -- Lucifer to Cain, Sandman: Season of Mists
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :
First of Two isn't Lucifer, I can see the connection, but it's not him, it's that lady on bedazzled
"Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"