Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Where do Human Rights come from ... ?

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

God?

Or we humans?

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

Well, God doesn't exist, so. . .

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Phasers

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Why didn't I think of that?

But of course, I meant, were Human Rights granted to us by Jeep millennia ago, or do we determine what they are ourselves?

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

Well, human rights are a recent invention, and I don't think you can detect much divine intervention in recent history. Or indeed ANY history, since God doesn't exist - but you see my point.

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Phasers

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Tell me: if we could show that human rights DON'T come from humans, would you not be forced to conclude that they do, in fact, come from God? Just a thought.

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

No, because first you'd have to justify your statement that anything that doesn't have a human origin must therefore come from God. Good luck.

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Phasers

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Not 'justify.' PROVE.

In any case, human rights are what the body of humanity decides that they are. If you ask nature, you'll notice that IT does not respect any of those so-called 'rights' (Especially your 'right to life.' 99.999999999% of the known universe will kill an unprotected human being within seconds.)

You gain and maintain 'universal human rights' generally by forcing whoever is in power to agree with your definition. Which is why most documents which 'create' or mention 'rights', The Magna Carta, The Declaration of Independence, etc., came about as a result of an armed conflict:

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The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching

Posted by MC Infinity (Member # 531) on :

I see no logical way of protecting and exercising these rights in other countries, the cases so far were at the cost of violating sovereign territory, and commiting an act of war.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

I believe the concept of "human rights" is based on the idea of "I'm human, and I think I should have these rights, so it's illogical to deny them to other humans". After all, if you think other people shouldn't have the right to life, then it's perfectly valid for someone else to decide that you don't have the right to life, and decide it's time for you to snuff it.

It's basically just an extension of the old "do unto others" bit...

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Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

You can always call your ombudsman! (sounds so funny spoken by english types)

The big problem is living by the rule of treating others the way you want to be treated.
I had a great teacher once, he really cared about us students and helped me out greatly.
When I asked him how he could be such a dedicated teacher, he said that he tried to be the teacher he would want his own children to have. If he were to stop caring, he couldn't blame other teachers for doing the same thing.

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Don't kill me, I'm charming!

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited May 08, 2001).]

Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :

I think it is rather a misrepresentation to say that various documents outlining the inherant rights of mankind came about as a result of armed conflict. Rather I think it would be more appropriate to say that such documents are born in revolutionary spirt that often incompases the time in which they were written.

The two are not necessarily the same. Armed conflict may be a proximate cause, but there always deeper and more complex issues at hand, hence the need for enumerated human rights. I think of the Declaration of the Rights of Man of the French Revolution as an example.

Further, a declaration of human rights detailed in such documents at such time are reactions to real or perceived tryany and as such are not easily won nor maintained. Such declarations are indeed revolutionary listing essential nature of the rights of humanity become a contract with the people of a given state thereby empowering the people.

Which is rather opposide of the idea of forcing human rights on the 'group in power'...if one agrees that human rights are inseparably attached to each person, then the rights exist and can not be "granted" by any group in power.

The challenge of these documents is preservation and application of the rights once the period of revolution has passed. The truest test is not if such enumerated human rights can exist on paper, but rather if they put into practice and maintained by any contituted government during non-revolutionary times.

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I'll kill you, you bloated museum of treachery!
~ C. Montgomery Burns

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

See Revolution, American v. Revolution, French; for instance.

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[This message has been edited by Sol System (edited May 09, 2001).]