But of course, I meant, were Human Rights granted to us by Jeep millennia ago, or do we determine what they are ourselves?
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** Card-Carrying Member of the FlareAPAO *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
Well, human rights are a recent invention, and I don't think you can detect much divine intervention in recent history. Or indeed ANY history, since God doesn't exist - but you see my point.
posted
Tell me: if we could show that human rights DON'T come from humans, would you not be forced to conclude that they do, in fact, come from God? Just a thought.
------------------ "How do you define fool?" "I don't attempt it. I wait for demonstrations. They inevitably surpass my imagination." - CJ Cherryh, Invader
In any case, human rights are what the body of humanity decides that they are. If you ask nature, you'll notice that IT does not respect any of those so-called 'rights' (Especially your 'right to life.' 99.999999999% of the known universe will kill an unprotected human being within seconds.)
You gain and maintain 'universal human rights' generally by forcing whoever is in power to agree with your definition. Which is why most documents which 'create' or mention 'rights', The Magna Carta, The Declaration of Independence, etc., came about as a result of an armed conflict:
------------------ The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
posted
I see no logical way of protecting and exercising these rights in other countries, the cases so far were at the cost of violating sovereign territory, and commiting an act of war.
------------------ "Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"
posted
I believe the concept of "human rights" is based on the idea of "I'm human, and I think I should have these rights, so it's illogical to deny them to other humans". After all, if you think other people shouldn't have the right to life, then it's perfectly valid for someone else to decide that you don't have the right to life, and decide it's time for you to snuff it.
It's basically just an extension of the old "do unto others" bit...
------------------ Lister: "Cat, what are you doing?" Cat: "I'm courting." Lister: "Courting who?" Cat: "Whoever shows up!" -Red Dwarf, "Me�"
posted
You can always call your ombudsman! (sounds so funny spoken by english types)
The big problem is living by the rule of treating others the way you want to be treated. I had a great teacher once, he really cared about us students and helped me out greatly. When I asked him how he could be such a dedicated teacher, he said that he tried to be the teacher he would want his own children to have. If he were to stop caring, he couldn't blame other teachers for doing the same thing.
------------------ Don't kill me, I'm charming!
[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited May 08, 2001).]
posted
I think it is rather a misrepresentation to say that various documents outlining the inherant rights of mankind came about as a result of armed conflict. Rather I think it would be more appropriate to say that such documents are born in revolutionary spirt that often incompases the time in which they were written.
The two are not necessarily the same. Armed conflict may be a proximate cause, but there always deeper and more complex issues at hand, hence the need for enumerated human rights. I think of the Declaration of the Rights of Man of the French Revolution as an example.
Further, a declaration of human rights detailed in such documents at such time are reactions to real or perceived tryany and as such are not easily won nor maintained. Such declarations are indeed revolutionary listing essential nature of the rights of humanity become a contract with the people of a given state thereby empowering the people.
Which is rather opposide of the idea of forcing human rights on the 'group in power'...if one agrees that human rights are inseparably attached to each person, then the rights exist and can not be "granted" by any group in power.
The challenge of these documents is preservation and application of the rights once the period of revolution has passed. The truest test is not if such enumerated human rights can exist on paper, but rather if they put into practice and maintained by any contituted government during non-revolutionary times.
------------------ I'll kill you, you bloated museum of treachery! ~ C. Montgomery Burns
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