It's a sad fact of Middle East politics that terrorists will continue to strike against Israel for much the same reasons the Palestinean Authority fights politically. But lumping the two together for the sole purpose of giving the mob of Israeli public opinion a body count to compensate for the one that Palestineans inflict on them reflects poorly on people like Rabin who died for their belief that a political solution was the only way to stop the violence in the Holy Land.

------------------
"And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking."
-DT on arguing with Omega, April 30

 

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
Card-Carrying Member of the Flare APAO
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.

This is why it's a bad idea, when you're finally getting some of what you've wanted, to attack your negotiating partner. But don't expect Hamas to learn that anytime soon. Peace isn't in their interest.

------------------
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
 

:: Shakes head is sadness at the efficacy of the 'faith' meme. ::
 

Ah, such bitter irony.

------------------
"Intelligence People. You guys are unbelievable. You dump a mess like this (that you created) on my lap, and then you come to me whining 'Where is our funding'? Well I'll tell you where your funding is. Can you say Health-Care"
- The President of the United States of America, The Long Kiss Goodnight
 

------------------
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
 

------------------
"Babies haven't any hair;
old men's heads are just as bare;
between the cradle and the grave
lies a haircut and a shave."

Samuel Hoffenstein
 

------------------
It never stops, when my mama ask me will I change
I tell her yeah, but it's clear I'll always be the same
Until the end of time
- Tupac Shakur, Untill the End of Time
 

------------------
"Babies haven't any hair;
old men's heads are just as bare;
between the cradle and the grave
lies a haircut and a shave."

Samuel Hoffenstein
 

------------------
It never stops, when my mama ask me will I change
I tell her yeah, but it's clear I'll always be the same
Until the end of time
- Tupac Shakur, Untill the End of Time
 

Israel is hardly innocent, of course.

------------------
Re: Russia in WWII

"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
Card-Carrying Member of the Flare APAO
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.

Perhaps a viewing of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" is in order.
 

Aerosol pork grenades.

------------------
"Boinky ensued, and a great time was had by all." --Book of Nigel, Chapter 4, verse 32

 

I of course support this assertation because by implication it ALSO means that we should also kick the Americans out of North America and give it back to the Native Americans.

------------------
"The Guide says that there is an art to flying...or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." - Life, the Universe and Everything

At any rate, I suspect U.S. support for Israel is, oh, eleven billion times more complicated than that. Here's a few reasons, just for kicks:

The horror that swept the world following WWII, when the scope of the Holocaust became apparent. Never underestimate the power of guilt.

Cold War tensions. The USSR had Middle Eastern allies. We needed some too.

The large number of Jews living in the United States.

And so on.

------------------
OH NO< THE OLD MAN WALKS HIS GREEN DOG THAT SHOTS PINBALLS!~!!!
--
Jeff K
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet" and nothing at all will happen.

The Arab peoples moved in as the aforementioned guys' empire began to collapse. They were there for a good 1700 years before Jews began to stream back once the British took control following WWI, and that entire holocaust thing sort of increased the flow.

But in the case of what Sharon is doing, I'm not sure if history is anyway relevant to the fact he's shooting the wrong people and ignoring saner minds.

------------------
"And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking."
-DT on arguing with Omega, April 30

 

Fact: Isrealies have already done a lot over the past decade to smooth the relationship with the Palestinian, which includes giving up almost half of Isreal's land-mass.

Fact: Yasser Arafat did nothing to stop the garilla attacks from his side but talking, while he could have done something far more productive.

Fact: All "stratigic" attacks by Isreal(bombing from the air, etc) are carry out at "military" targets instead of "civilian" targets.

Fact: Palestinians on other hands are trying to imposing terrors by carry out garrila attacks targeting civilians.

So, what can you conclude from previous statements.

Personally, I have no sympathy towards the Palestinians, they're dumb, ignorant, I mean, what kind of people throw rocks at military officers with machine guns when their country is at the brink of war?

I think the Isrealies are already showing great restrain on their part, and if the Palestinians keep this up, one day they're gonna seriously piss the Isrealies off, and this won't be limited warfare that much longer.

And Why should the Isrealies gave in, I mean, these are rebels and terrorists sanction by the Palestinians, and we all know any government in the right mind should not give in to the demands of terrorists.

------------------
What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.

[This message has been edited by BlueElectron (edited May 21, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by BlueElectron (edited May 21, 2001).]
 

While I agree the land dispute is way more complicated, but Palestinians DID start the current violent in Isreal.

------------------
What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.

And we get to see rocks met with tank fire.

I not advocating for either side. But Isreal, who feels it in their national interest to retaliate at every provocation, needs to move to an appropriate level of force or the world is going to see one bloody awful mess as the whole situation escalates.

------------------
I'll kill you, you bloated museum of treachery!
~ C. Montgomery Burns

[This message has been edited by Jay (edited May 21, 2001).]
 

But that's not the case is it?

------------------
What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.

quote:

---

Fact: Palestinians started out this non-sense.

---

quote:

---

Fact: Isrealies have already done a lot over the past decade to smooth the relationship with the Palestinian, which includes giving up almost half of Isreal's land-mass.

---

quote:

---

Fact: Yasser Arafat did nothing to stop the garilla attacks from his side but talking, while he could have done something far more productive.

---

quote:

---

Fact: All "stratigic" attacks by Isreal(bombing from the air, etc) are carry out at "military" targets instead of "civilian" targets.

---

quote:

---

Fact: Palestinians on other hands are trying to imposing terrors by carry out garrila attacks targeting civilians.

---

I recommend you look up: War, Total.

quote:

---

Personally, I have no sympathy towards the Palestinians, they're dumb, ignorant, I mean, what kind of people throw rocks at military officers with machine guns when their country is at the brink of war?

---

quote:

---

if the Palestinians keep this up, one day they're gonna seriously piss the Isrealies off, and this won't be limited warfare that much longer.

---

quote:

---

And Why should the Isrealies gave in, I mean, these are rebels and terrorists sanction by the Palestinians, and we all know any government in the right mind should not give in to the demands of terrorists.

---

And if governments shouldn't give in to terrorists, I think we must roundly condemn the British for ever letting that George Washington fellow lead the well-off people of the 13 colonies out from under the rule of Great Britain.

------------------
"And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking."
-DT on arguing with Omega, April 30

[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited May 21, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited May 21, 2001).]
 

What I am saying is that while I decry the use of force (personally I think that civil disobedience on a grand scale might achieve some goals), what force has been used by the Palestineans has been met with an inappropriate amount of force in reaction.

I seem to recall a story were a couple of morter shells landed in the middle of nowhere but near an Isreali settlement, and the reaction was helicopter gunships blasting away in a populated area.

I can't say that I hold much sympathy with Isreal and it's separatist policy. It's oppression and segregation pure and simple. At its heart lies a political, ecomonic, cultural, and historical barrier to inclusion Palestineans.

------------------
I'll kill you, you bloated museum of treachery!
~ C. Montgomery Burns

 

This is true only to a certain extend. Fact is, Palestainins started the fight, they should take most of the blame.

" No they haven't. They've ceded the Gaza Strip and a handful of towns in the West Bank to the Palestinean Authority. The Israeli's won't let the region become an
independent state. And right now Israeli tanks are charging through said areas. "

I believe the common goals between the Isrealies and Palestainins are to eventually establish a independent state, maybe not now, but in the future. The process is not gonna happen over night, this show that the Isrealies are committed to resolve their difference with peaceful cooperation, but what did the Palestainins do? They started a fight!

" Like what, ordering Palestineans everywhere to hunt down people among them who believed in a more militant stance against Israel? As the bombed prison incident shows, his Palestinean police have indeed arrested some of their own terrorists. Arafat can no more control the terrorist groups than the Irish Taoiseach can control
the "Real" IRA. "

Ordering Palestineans to hunt down terrorists? What does that do? He knows his people hated the Isrealies, his speech serves nothing but to look good internationally, to show that he's doing something to preserve peace, when he's actually doing FUBAR! Random gun fights broke out everyday, and just how many so called terrorist did his officials caught? Again, FUBAR! He could declare some sort of emergency, which probably do good for both Isrealies and Palestineans, but do you see more police man or military officers patroling the street more then usual? NO! Do you see Palestineans officers stop their youth from throwing rocks at Isrealies soldiers? NO! Did you see Palestieans officers cooperating and fighting alongside Isrealies against snipers and violents? No, it's all FUBAR, and I thought they want to cooperate? And why shouldn't Isrealies hold Arifat responsible? This is similiar to an international conflict because Palestineans are somewhat indepentent, and when my citizen got killed by terrorist from your country, I don't deal with the terroirst, I deal with the HEAD OF STATE, in this case, Arifat!

" Check your facts. He's shot at houses where former terrorists who laid down their arms with the Oslo Accord live with their families. He's bombed government offices where Palestinean civil servants work. He blew up said prison, killing innocent guards. He's attacked Palestinean Police posts. If the US invaded Canada, would you consider RCMP stations "military targets? "

I do believe most of the targets are thought to be terroists hide-outs, or base where terroists or "militia warloads" resides. And you're right, maybe some of it is retaliations, but at least they pick on target of which they believe to be military value and not civilian value. And yes, Palestinean police post are consider para-military, just like the "Red Guard" of China, they carry out the duties of police matters, but they're also somewhat military in nature.

" Fact: The Israeli army routinely shells Palestinean villages.

I recommend you look up: War, Total. "

Mind I remind you villages with reported sniper fires, and mortar fires? And I don't think they "level" entire village with military fire without cause. They either forcefully evacuate villagers, or fire on specific target buildings. Is there misfire? yes. Are innocent people hurt in the process? Some. But like I said before, Isrealies did try to avoid civilian deaths are much as possible, the rest is inevitable casuality of war, which believe it or not, do happen in warfare. And if you need to be morally justified in EVERY SINGLE DEATHS and EVERYSINGLE ACTIONS in war, then I hope that you never get to command an army that defends our countries.

" Personally, I think statements like that are racist and poorly thought out. "

They are STUPID and IGNORANT. Are they carrying out PEACEFUL demonstrations? NO! Is the country in a very stable, peaceful state? NO! Have people been killed during these violent protess? YES!

They have TV, they watch news, they read newspaper they know people are dieing, and yet they can't figure out that it's dangerous to throw rock at Isrealies offiers at a time like this?

Palestaineans ARE STUPID to provoke officers with GUNS. Palesaineans are IGNORANT for letting their families go out and protess. Is it wrong to shoot people, yes normally, in this case maybe, but f**king bitch about it at home, write letters to U.N. , get interview by CNN and bitch some more! But throw rocks at unhappy people with guns?

I am sad at lost of lives here, but I have no sympathy for stupid actions, and therefore no sympathy for Palestineans who got killed in protess. If that is racisim, then so be it!

" Since when are F-16's limited warfare? "

A bomb flight consist of less then 5 fighters(do correct me if I'm wrong about the number) with precision strike at an intended target, with limited damange to it's surroundings. If you call that full-out war, then believe what you want to believe, I'm not going to waste my breath explaining the difference between full-war, and limited-war.

" The Palestinean Authority isn't sanctioning the acts of Hamas, Mizbollah etc. etc. Terrorists can't be beaten by all the fighter jets in the world, so instead they target a legitimate government for an oppressed people. "

Welcome to reality pal, like I said before, countries deal with HEAD OF STATE, or LEGIT GOVERNMENT BODY, they don't deal with individual. Responsiblities of individual is not first prioity, rather who's responsible for this individuals is the one they question.

------------------
What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.

[This message has been edited by BlueElectron (edited May 21, 2001).]
 

He's actually doing "Fucked up beyond any recognition"??? Is that a play?

Israel has admitted long before that they have neither the manpower nor the stamina to engage in a prolonged war, so I sincerely hope they'll be able to take some steam off some other way. They don't want Jom Kippur again. (Or maybe they do?! Hmm...)

But I suspect the soil of Israel will be fought over long after we are dust.

------------------
"Babies haven't any hair;
old men's heads are just as bare;
between the cradle and the grave
lies a haircut and a shave."

Samuel Hoffenstein
 

and all this time I thought it means "fucked up", or to describe a person who's doing nothing.

------------------
What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.

------------------
Phasers

 

That next year was 1948. Nations of the world presented Israel with a guilt offering. They said, "We permitted by our silence for your people to be slaughtered in Europe. This is our repentence-a nation for your people."

The effect of thousands of angry and demoralized people entering Palestine was devastating. Communities of Palestinians were displaced. Islamic nations were furious. The day of Israel's birth is known by the Palestinians as the Day of Catastrophe.

Palestinians attempted to enter Islamic nations, and in many countries were denied permission. Yet, in the wars between Israel and Islamic nations, the Palestinians aided the non-Israelites.

So, there are two major groups.

Jews-A ravaged, marginal civilization dating to the Davidic Dynasty, ca. 1000 BCE. Israel is their hope and dream. In Israel, Jews have survival.

Palestinians-A displaced, angry, and emotional civilization that has roots that date back centuries. They see Israel as Palestine. In Palestine, they can create an Islamic nation. And in Palestine, they can have a home that was not a refuge camp.

These two civilizations are tied to the land and to their interpretations of history.

I don't see peace coming soon. For as long as both civilizations feel victimized by the other and by selected nations, the violence will continue. They are two wounded animals in the same cage tearing at each other's flesh. The Jews are stronger for now. Yet, the Jews will succumb eventually to tearing themselves apart. In the Talmud, there is an euphemism. This is, "The enemies of the Jews". This refers to the Jews themselves. They are their own worst enemy. When Jews succumb to their internal fights, their nation will be torn from them.

------------------

takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory
 

------------------
"Babies haven't any hair;
old men's heads are just as bare;
between the cradle and the grave
lies a haircut and a shave."

Samuel Hoffenstein
 

------------------
"You know, putting up a tent is like making love to a beautiful woman. You undo the zip, pop in your pole and slip into the old bag."
- Swiss Toni, The Fast Show (British comedy show)
---
Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site

[This message has been edited by Prakesh (edited May 21, 2001).]
 

We're only one country. Maybe one of you OTHER global powers would like to step in. Yeah, let's hand this problem off to Canada. They're a grown-up country now, they can handle it.

Personally, I'm beginning to feel that this situation should be resolved in a similar manner to the way my dad resolved escalating fights between myself and my brother... and for just about the same reasons:

"I don't CARE who started it, I'm tired, and I WANT QUIET!!!!! Or I'm going to come up there and flatten the BOTH of you!" And he meant it. And we'd stop. Or he would.

------------------
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching

[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited May 21, 2001).]
 

Yours, Mr Bio-Bomb.

(Have A Nice Day)
 

I don�t for see my countries fearless leader doing anything more complicated than tying his shoe for his entire stay in office, so can�t say that we are going to be any help in this regard. The Israeli and Palestine seem destine to continue their feud until hell freezes over, or one of the sides obliterate the other.

Holy pessimistic...excuse me I have to go watch something funny.
------------------
Access Password
47at
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

[This message has been edited by bear (edited May 21, 2001).]
 

quote:

---

They are STUPID and IGNORANT. Are they carrying out PEACEFUL
demonstrations? NO! Is the country in a very stable, peaceful state? NO!
Have people been killed during these violent protess? YES!

They have TV, they watch news, they read newspaper they know
people are dieing, and yet they can't figure out that it's dangerous to
throw rock at Isrealies offiers at a time like this?

Palestaineans ARE STUPID to provoke officers with GUNS. Palesaineans
are IGNORANT for letting their families go out and protess. Is it wrong to
shoot people, yes normally, in this case maybe, but f**king bitch about
it at home, write letters to U.N. , get interview by CNN and bitch some
more! But throw rocks at unhappy people with guns?

---

Christ, those students in Tiannamien Square were idiots, too, huh? Throwing rocks at soldiers with guns? Didn't they know that mass protest was an ineffective way of getting their point across? They deserved to be used to regrout the gaps between the paving stones!

------------------
"And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking."
-DT on arguing with Omega, April 30

 

------------------
Access Password
47at
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html

------------------
Re: Russia in WWII

"Hey, we butchered Poles! Thats OK."
- DT.

I also believe that as a part of the community of nations...a responsibility that the conservative/isolationist side of the political question tries so hard to eliminate...we have a vested interest in making some sort of proactive move to help restore peace.

In that vein, I was glad to see Secretary of State Powell move to endorse the Mitchell Report as it calls on both sides to end violence. It is a move in the right direction. A call for the cessation of violence that the international community can get behind. It is also a rather marked improvement on the non-movement oriented and silent isolationist position taken thus far by the person in the White House.

------------------
I'll kill you, you bloated museum of treachery!
~ C. Montgomery Burns

[This message has been edited by Jay (edited May 22, 2001).]
 

I was pointing out the essential hypocracy of those who insist the US take charge and take care of everything when things are bad, but whine about our "meddling, culture-dominating, agressive methods" when we do.

I mean, it's frustrating, having the same people shout "US OUT OF (your country of issue here)" who cried "THE US SHOULD STEP IN" ten minutes ago. These naive children can't recognize that they can't have it both ways. You can't invite the Giant in and then complain about the footprints.

------------------
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
 

I knew you were gonna bring that up, and you seriously believe two thing to be the same?

Palestanians protess are violent to begin with, and their goals are to distablize the country enough using terroist tactics so eventually they can be independent, which, I remind you, are already being slowly but steadily achieve by mutual cooperation from both side.

Tiaman square on the other hand, students are peaceful through out the whole deal, they were fired upon without provoking the military, dare to say the same about Palestainians? The protest are aim to create a greater stability in China by "PLEAING" the government to see their point of view, not "TERRORIZING" general public so that government will give in to their demands!

Do not equate riot and protest as the same thing!

------------------
What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.

[This message has been edited by BlueElectron (edited May 22, 2001).]
 

While Palestianean protests are not carry out continuious, and if they didn't learn the mistakes made by previous protesters who get shot for doing stupid things(like throwing stones, etc) and still insist on going out protesting with some more stones. Then get kill for all I care.

Stupid and ignorant people do not deserve my sympathy.

------------------
What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.

[This message has been edited by BlueElectron (edited May 22, 2001).]
 

Bloody HELL!
Alright....a slight aside here.
If I see another "Palestanians" or "Palestaineans" or a "Isrealies" or a reference to a country named "Isreal."
I'm going to bloody SCREAM!
Its one thing arguing about the issues....but its hard to have a civil debate when every other line contains something that makes you wince at the sheer annoying spelling.
If you're going to say these words every other line...at least have the moral decency to spell them correctly.

For ****Reference****
The Israelis come from Israel
The Palestinians are the ones throwing rocks, and we're making parallels with Tiananmen Square.

I'm not going to say any bloody blue names, but just try to keep up...hell, copy and paste if you have to.

Hell, while I'm at it.
If there are any Trekkies here...its bloody Captain Sisko not Captain Sisco...and the guy from DS9 certainly doesn't own a company (Cisco)that makes routers either!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..............alright, I feel slightly better now.

**** The regularly scheduled debate continues after this ******

------------------
"The Guide says that there is an art to flying...or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." - Life, the Universe and Everything

English is never one of my strong point.

------------------
What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.

------------------
I'll kill you, you bloated museum of treachery!
~ C. Montgomery Burns

 

I'll just make one comment: If rocks can destroy the most heavily-armed nation in the Middle East, then we better start checking our children at school to make sure nobody smuggles a rock in and goes on a rampage.

------------------
"And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking."
-DT on arguing with Omega, April 30

 

------------------
I'll kill you, you bloated museum of treachery!
~ C. Montgomery Burns

[This message has been edited by Jay (edited May 22, 2001).]
 

While shooting at protesters "MAYBE" wrong**, provoking an "standoff" with one side arm with guns and other with mainly rocks is just STUPID!

Palestinians protesters have the choice to backoff if they're using their common sense! Palestinians have the choice to tell their family not to go to these violent protest instead they encourage and fuel the hatred! Like I said before, do they have access to TV or newspapers? YES! Then let me ask how many protest ended in bloodshed had happen already, and how many of these are broadcast all over newspapers, and TV? And yet they don't have slightest clue to backoff? And how about learning about your mistakes from history? Plenty of history here, FREAKING TV SHOWED AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT YOU GET KILLED FOR THROWING ROCKS AT OFFICERS!!!!

When blaming the Israelies for shooting these so-called innocent people, have Palestinians consider the fact that it can be avoided in the first place if they think straight?

What have banks learn over the years? They learn that while stopping a robbery might be the heroic or moral thing to do, ultimately, the SMART WAY is to give the damn money, and deal with the situation later with well thought out plan.

Fine, Palestinians can be strong headed, march into every protest proud with a vangence. One more hot-headed person dead, one more idotic action carry out and one more stupid thing for ME to laugh at!

** And who said they only threw rocks? Didn't we forget about that certain reporter that got shoot IN THE EXCHANGE OF SMALL ARM FIRE? How about them sniper shots reported again and again in these protest? And have we consider that Israelies officers were greatly out-numbered by blood-thrusty mob who would use anything at hand as weapons? How about Palestinians funeral parade carry out on TV that ended in cereomonial gunfires to remember the dead, and you tell me they got nothing but rocks to throw at?

------------------
What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.

[This message has been edited by BlueElectron (edited May 22, 2001).]
 

quote:

---

FREAKING TV SHOWED AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT YOU GET KILLED FOR THROWING ROCKS AT OFFICERS!!!!

---

In what world should protesters get killed for throwing rocks at at members of the army dressed in kevlar?

I still say that mass civil disobedience would work better. However I have my doubts on if the army of Isreal would should show restraint and not fire into a mass crowd of protestors no matter what they were doing. Even rubber bullets kill.

------------------
I'll kill you, you bloated museum of treachery!
~ C. Montgomery Burns

 

On another point, how many Palestinians are going to have to die before we can officially call what the Israelis are doing a 'holocaust'? I support the right of Israel to defend itself, but sending in the F16s to retaliate against a suicide bomber is disproportionate and I'll go as far as to say a war crime. If it was the other way around and the Israelis were the one's throwing stones with the Palestinians sending in the tanks and planes, then the world would have sent in troops by now to save them.

We go on and on about the fate that the Jewish race met at the hand of the Nazi's. It is also absolutely right that we should never forget because the world should never be allowed to forget what one man is capable of inflicting upon another. It does however seem that the Jewish leadership hasn't learned any lessons from that itself. It is now going and blowing up peoples homes and killing en masse for the acts of a suicide bomber - I think these are acts of which the Nazi's themselves would have been proud.

------------------
The Worlds Ten Greatest 'Fucks' #10

Where's all that fucking water coming from? - Captain of Titanic

quote:

---

While shooting at protesters "MAYBE" wrong

---

Yeah, those kids at Kent State deserved what they got.

------------------
Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
Card-Carrying Member of the Flare APAO
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.

(It's amazing how many problems have been caused by colonial powers' arbitrary boundaries.)

------------------
The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
 

Palestine was always there, just part of the Ottoman Empire, but they always considered themselves Palestinians. It's just that some of their land was taken and called Israel and that's when the boundaries became more pronounced. I'll see if I can find something that supports this.
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/Story151.html

This article does hint at the fact that they did consider themselves Palestinians and possibly the origins of the hatred between the two peoples.
------------------
The Worlds Ten Greatest 'Fucks' #10

Where's all that fucking water coming from? - Captain of Titanic

[This message has been edited by Orion Syndicate (edited May 22, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Orion Syndicate (edited May 22, 2001).]
 

------------------
Phasers

 

READ MY POST FULLY BEFORE MAKING ANY COMMENTS!!!!!!!!!!

Jay:

" FREAKING TV SHOWED AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT YOU GET KILLED FOR THROWING ROCKS AT OFFICERS!!!! "

The point I was trying to make is that it can be AVOIDED by staying STRAIGHT HEADED, in other word, NOT TO PARTICIPATE. All the situation you guys had describe are SINGLE CONTINEOUS EVENT, dude, those guys at Kent State or Tiananmen Square intended for the protest to go as peaceful as they can, they didn't know it's gonna turn bloody all of a sudden on them.

Palestinians on the other hands, protests are carry out DISCOUNTIOUS and happened several time already. They went out there with no intention of talking it out peacefully, they went out there only to "duke it out" with the big guy. ISRAELIES DIDN"T SHOOT ON SIGHT, PALESTINIANS APPROACH PROTEST WITH VIOLENT ACTIONS, THEN ISRAELIES WERE FORCED TO SHOOT! Again, so much different then Kent State, or Tiananmen Square.

You guys get the purpose of that comment all wrong! Now, Palestinians watched their TV again, again, again.
Now, what did they saw? They saw that previous protest ended in bloodshed cuz violent actions INITIATED by them forced Israelies to return fire. And yet they don't have the common sense to think or to learn, "Hey, maybe THROWING ROCKS or whatever violent things I'll be doing at the protest won't be such a good idea, better yet, how about NOT TO GO TO THESE PROTEST ALL TOGETHER until things started to settle down"

See? Common Sense? STUPIDITY? Definately something to think about.

and here, I quote myself:

" And who said they only threw rocks? Didn't we forget about that certain reporter that got shoot IN THE EXCHANGE OF SMALL ARM FIRE? How about them sniper shots
reported again and again in these protest? And have we consider that Israelies officers were greatly out-numbered by blood-thrusty mob who would use anything at hand as weapons? How about Palestinians funeral parade carry out on TV that ended in cereomonial gunfires to remember the dead, and you tell me they got nothing but rocks to throw at? "

Get it? Rocks ain't the only thing that's been exchanged?

Jeff:

The "MAYBE" statement is backed by the "Rock ain't the only thing" statements. So dude, if rock ain't the only thing being "fire" at Israelies, then "MAYBE" it is a prudent action for Israelies to return fire to save their own butts?

And what's the big deal with F-16s, the hype is only political man! The bombing carry out by F-16s are precision striking at a SUPPOSED INTENDED MILITARY TARGET, not MASS CARPET BOMBING ON WHATEVER THEY CAN FIND! I suppose they used the Mk-82s? That thing ain't that much stronger then car bomb man! A tank can probably do more damage with three or four shells!

------------------
What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend?
- With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.

[This message has been edited by BlueElectron (edited May 22, 2001).]
 

Why does retreating have to be a one way act where the Palestinians give in? The Palestinians see that they're getting killed, so they should stop. Why don't the Israeli's see that every person they kill is creating a martyr to the cause, and intensifying the situation even further. Why don't they make a move - and I remind you again that it was Sharon who said that it was war, not the Palestinians.

You can't blame the Palestinians completely - they've had their land taken from them, they have no firm supporters - even the Arab nations are just talking rhetoric - there's no firm action. They have to do it themselves. You yanks yourselves are proud of the fight against "tyranny and oppression" which won you your own independence. The Palestinians are being oppressed here too by a tyrannical nation - why was it okay for you but not for them? They want a place to live yet their own land is now being turned into Jewish settlements by Sharon which is further adding fuel to the fire. The main culprit in this is Israel and Sharon - Arafat and Palestine are partly to blame, yes but not nearly on the scale that Israel is for the way in which they've handled and intensified this conflict.

------------------
The Worlds Ten Greatest 'Fucks' #10

Where's all that fucking water coming from? - Captain of Titanic

We can't relate to their situation because we A: don't live in their culture and B: are not at the brink of a hate war.
I don't know about you guys but I've never been beaten to near death by soldiers nor had my house leveled to the ground.

------------------
"Babies haven't any hair;
old men's heads are just as bare;
between the cradle and the grave
lies a haircut and a shave."

Samuel Hoffenstein
 

------------------
"'I don't CARE who started it, I'm tired, and I WANT QUIET!!!!! Or I'm going to come up there and flatten the BOTH of you!' And he meant it. And we'd stop. Or he would." --Foreign policy as laid down by First of Two's dad
 

When I learned of the extent of his experiences as a UN soldier during the Kongo crisis in the 60's I became a tad more humble.
We're talking entire villages slaughtering eachother with swords, clubs and spears.

One time at night, a villager climbed into their barracks and stabbed one of my fathers friends to death.
Another night, a guy with a bad case of shell shock just stood up in the middle of the night and emptied a whole machine gun clip into the walls, right over my father's bed.

Granted, the hostilities in africa were worse than the Israel situation, but if it escalates to Yom Kippur II...

Don't the muslims foresee a New Order coming into power some time in the beginning of the 2000's? Something from the Quran?

------------------
"Babies haven't any hair;
old men's heads are just as bare;
between the cradle and the grave
lies a haircut and a shave."

Samuel Hoffenstein
 

------------------
"And as it is, it is cheaper than drinking."
-DT on arguing with Omega, April 30

 

------------------
"The Guide says that there is an art to flying...or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." - Life, the Universe and Everything

------------------
"Babies haven't any hair;
old men's heads are just as bare;
between the cradle and the grave
lies a haircut and a shave."

Samuel Hoffenstein