I'm not exactly excited at the prospect of bleeding out all over some dusty Baghdad sidestreet, but nations probably should take it seriously when other nations try and kill their leaders. Maybe?
Posted by Tora Ziyal (Member # 53) on :
Clinton already did something about it. What the hell did that accomplish? What the hell would war accomplish this time?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
The same thing it was supposed to accomplish last time: the protection of innocent lives, and the liberation of the enslaved. That's what most of our wars are over, at least in theory.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I'm sure that Dubya isn't the most objective person to make the ultimate decision here, but at the same time, the threat posed by Iraq is real. And presidential assassination is nothing to joke about, IMO...
Posted by Tora Ziyal (Member # 53) on :
quote:The same thing it was supposed to accomplish last time: the protection of innocent lives, and the liberation of the enslaved. That's what most of our wars are over, at least in theory.
Sure, we'd be protecting "innocent" American lives, but innocent Iraqi lives? Well, they're just in the line of fire and some people have to make sacrifices. Just because the country sits on a oil reserve doesn't mean we need any of it. Vietnam War? Well of course they can't be innocent if they're communist. How about innocent lives of young Americans who fought a needless war that accomplished nothing? How about the war where we stole land from Texas to California from under Mexico? It belonged to us, anyway, right? We gotta protect the innocent Mexicans from their own government, after all.
Don't give me that load of shit.
quote:nations probably should take it seriously when other nations try and kill their leaders. Maybe?
By this "logic," Iraqis are should take it seriously that we are trying to kill their leader and retaliate, right? If Bush is justified to take revenge on his father's attempted assassination, then all the sons of Iraqis that have been killed or will be killed are justified to retaliate those who killed their fathers.
It NEVER ends.
So our superior powers stop them for a while. What do YOU do when your parents ground you for doing something you don't think is wrong? You get around them and do it anyway. The key phrase here is "you don't think is wrong." If Iraqis thought they were doing something wrong, they wouldn't be doing it. The only way to stop somebody from doing is to change their beliefs about that behavior, and there's no way we can do it if we believe the exact same thing.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
So, the Torontonians have finally caught wind of that ridiculous theory. I guess it's true when they say that they're 10 months behind the times.
Pay no attention to the man behind the typewriter, he's just frustrated because the last of the three-part Clinton foreign policy legacy finally fell apart.
1. Peace in the Middle East (Oslo) - well, that one was no surprise. 2. Peace in Northern Ireland. Ka-blooie. 3. The agreement which was supposed to keep North Korea from developing nuclear weapons.
So much for the 'treaty' crowd. Send in the tanks.
quote:It NEVER ends.
Really? When was the last time German and Japanese terrorists attacked the US?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
When was the first time?
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
*zing*
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
quote: If Iraqis thought they were doing something wrong, they wouldn't be doing it.
bullshit. i new that skipping my classes today was wrong, but i did it anyway. knowing something is wrong and doing it anyway shows the ability to hold 2 contradictory thoughts in one's head. that is a sign of intelligence. are you saying that the Iraqi's aren't intelligent, Tora? that they can't hold 2 contradictory thought's in their heads? i doubt that the most ardent supporter of war in Iraq would make such a statement about Iraqi intelligence.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
quote:Originally posted by First of Two: 2. Peace in Northern Ireland. Ka-blooie. 3. The agreement which was supposed to keep North Korea from developing nuclear weapons.
So much for the 'treaty' crowd. Send in the tanks.
Ka-blooie, eh? Really. Because we all know that ten times as many people have died in the past week in Belfast as have in the greater DC area. Terriblyy violent country, that Ireland. That stupid Clinton has caused so much death.
And, um, am I correct in assuming you are advocating an invasion of North Korea, too?
Posted by Tahna Los (Member # 33) on :
quote:Originally posted by First of Two: So, the Torontonians have finally caught wind of that ridiculous theory. I guess it's true when they say that they're 10 months behind the times.
I'm taking that as offensive. Did you think I'd actually believe that? I don't think the writer did either, he's simply exploring a not-so-well-known fact. That's Journalism, not 10 months behind the times.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: "And do you think that those who believe that bad things benefit them know that they are bad?"
"No, that I cannot altogether believe."
"It is clear then that those who do not know things to be bad do not desire what is bad, but they desire those things that they believe to be good but that are in fact bad."
I'm going to make this degree pay off, damn it!
Oh uh, from Meno by Plato.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Tom: Straw men burn.
Tahna: It is when everybody but the bad stand-up comedians and the Democratic version of the right-wing conspiracy theorists discounted it months ago.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
It is a valid question. What do you propose/support doing about North Korea?
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Well, we could help them along with their nuclear program by sending them a few, three or four 'Peacekeepers' should do the trick. I mean, since we helped out anyway, we might as well go all the way....
or,
Let South Korea, China, and Japan invade them, then the rest of the world can cry that we let if happen...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"i new that skipping my classes today was wrong, but i did it anyway."
If you honestly believed that it was wrong, you wouldn't have done it. You may believe that it's wrong in the eyes of others. You may even believe that it is ultimately detrimental to yourself. But you obviously don't actually believe it to be "wrong".
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Chopping my left hand off is wrong...
So I will not do it....
Chopping off anyone's right hand is wrong, so I shall not do it....
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
TSN, all i have to say is Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
That most certainly wasn't a straw man. You implied the peace process in Northern Ireland had failed and that people were killing one another again with great vigour. And, um, that isn't happening, at least to my eyes. So if you define what's going on Northern Ireland as a failure of peace, fine, but then there's a far a greater one in DC or, statistically speaking, any American ghetto any day of the week.
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Well bearing in mind there've been something like 700 killings and well over 1000 woundings caused (or almost certainly caused) by the IRA and other paramilitary groups in the last few years, I'm not sure it's really been all that successful. The figures were from The Telegraph BTW, and i think were actually slightly higher...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
But that doesn't mean it's "fallen apart". I assume you intend to live at least to the age of 50, yes? But you're not 50 yet. Does that mean your attempts to live to age 50 have "fallen apart"?
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Wraith: Unlikely.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote:SECURITY was today being stepped up around police and Army bases in Northern Ireland in the wake of a chilling new threat from the Real IRA.
The dissident republicans yesterday claimed responsibility for a weekend bomb attack on Castlederg police station and warned it was preparing to step up its campaign of terror.
Kablooie.
Don't make false comparisons between Ireland and DC. Omagh in 1998 got nearly triple the DC sniper's body count in less than 1/14th the time.
The group responsible is still active, as mentioned above. It's only a matter of time.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
While we're talking about false comparrisions, please take your own advice regarding FDR/Bush/World War II and Iraq.
Thank you.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
I'm shocked (well ok, not really) that anoyone expected consistent or moral foreign policy (or other policy) from any government. Let alone the one that sets the standards for hypocrisy.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
They are consistently inconsistent...
Aren't we all slightly though....
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote:Originally posted by The_Tom: Wraith: Unlikely.
...and the moral of this story is always do research rather than relying on vaguely remembered newspaper articles. The total injuries must've been around 700 then. Possibly.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Wraith, that does take all the fun out of it...
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Well, yeah; that's what I thought really: I just didn't want to hurt his feelings .
Posted by Tahna Los (Member # 33) on :
Deliberate U.N. action, not an erratic rush to war, is the way to go.
Okay, going to war slowly and letting him, SH, have a chance to build up more crap is better than 'rushing' in....
Will a slow war have fewer deaths???
Now, regardless of what I have posted before, I am not enthused about sending my friends off to have a chance to die.... I still have quite a few friends serving in the infantry...
Posted by Daryus Aden (Member # 12) on :
As they said on CNNNN: We have to stop this lethal outbreak of peace, by any means necessary.
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