For the last week, I have been staying at my parent's place while they are in Hong Kong visiting my Grandma. Basically, I have to make sure that everything at the house is ok, mail picked up, plants watered, snow shovelled, and walkways salted if need be.
There is an area where the lawn meets the sidewalk and the driveway. It's sunken down a bit and as a result, water tends to form there quite often as snow melts. When it gets cold, that puddle turns to ice. The ice patch that forms is not in the middle of the sidewalk or the driveway, just that small area where the lawn, driveway, and sidewalk meet. Anyone with half a brain can see it and avoid it. For the last night or two, I salted that patch down so that people would not slip (just in case). After all, I had an unfortunate incident in which I slipped on a patch of ice while holding my keys, thus causing me to throw said keys 20 feet in the air where they got stuck on an eavestrough. It took me a while to shake the keys down.
This morning, I salted said puddle again before leaving to work (thought it needed more salt). The day itself was just over freezing and I got home at around 9:30 pm after running some errands after work. I went to check on that patch again. Turns out that the ice patch did melt in milder weather earlier that day but a new one formed after more snow melted and the temperature dipped during the night. As I was salting the area again, some fogey came up to me and asked if I was the owner of the house. I politely said that I was the owner's son. He then went on a tirade on how his son was delivering flyers earlier in the evening and slipped and hurt himself on that same ice patch. The one that I salted this morning. The one that melted during the day, drained itself, and froze again after more snow melted into that puddle.
He went to claim that because his son was hurt on my parent's property, he is going to sue my parents for personal injury. Initially, I apologized for the accident, but he then went in to say that it was my responsibility to make sure that the ice patch was salted THE MOMENT IT WAS FORMED. Hello, I just got home, and I went to salt that puddle as soon as I realized that a new patch of ice had formed. Besides, the area of said patch is less than half a foot squared. He then went to say that he would sue for 5-6 figures.
I then said. "Dare you to try. I think you'll be wasting a lot of time with this."
I hope I'm right. My parents come back tomorrow.
[ March 14, 2005, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Saltah'na ]
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
If the guy actually said he would "sue for 5-6 figure", I think it's obvious he's a money-grubbing whore. Unfortunately, those are the kinds of people that actually will retain a lawyer and file the suit. Unfortunately, you're parents will also probably have to get an attorney.
I don't know a thing about Canadian civil law, so I wouldn't take anything I'm to say as the gospel truth. In my opinion, the law suit would probably be thrown out. The father of the "victim" approached you as you were salting the puddle. The guy said he was going to sue with a set amount of money in mind. Other things affecting a decision on dismissal would include how badly hurt the "victim" was (I can see major trauma going through, but anything else being tossed), and whether or not part of the puddle was on government-owned/maintained property (mainly because I'm confused on where the puddle is).
Good luck.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
The man never told me the extent of what the son's injury may be only to say that he is hurt VERY bad (which I think he is exaggerating). I've slipped on plenty of ice patches and suffered mostly a bruised ego.
But here's the thing: is there some sort of law that is supposed to have immediate response to ice patches forming? I salted the damned patch this morning, it melted, and a new one formed. It's not like I deliberately left the patch there so that I wanted someone to slip on it.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Vague on injuries; specific on money. I hate to sound so cynical about my fellow man, but I'm sensing an opportunist at work here.
As far as I know, Texas has no law on the books requiring people to salt any ice patches on their property. Houston and Harris County don't have any ordinances on it either, but we only get a major ice storm maybe once every fifteen years or so. My sister lives near the panhandle, and they get snow and ice regularly during the winter. She's never mentioned anything about being required to salt ice patches.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Believe me, the question on whether a law exists for almost immediate removal of ice was pure sarcasm. From what I recall, you have 24 hours from snowfall to remove any snow from your sidewalk (unless you are on vacation of course). As for ice, I would imagine that it is the same thing. Like I said to him many times over, it was salted this morning, and I went to salt it again when I got home. No negligence there.....
Opportunist? Yes. Asshole? Definitely. Non-Starter of a lawsuit? I hope so, unless this guy knows an attourney who can make both Jack McCoy and Ben Stone squirm.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Wait, what, you're required by law to sweep the snow from the pavement outside your house?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Around these parts all sidewalks are maintained by the municipality in which they exist. Usually a city-owned plow-thingy goes up and down the sidewalks to clear them off (if at all; some sidewalks don't get such special treatment). The sidewalks are rarely if ever bare at all. But then again, the total population of NB is less than a suburb of Toronto, so things are probably different there.
Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
No, that is bullshit, the lawn is your parents' property, if anyone chooses to enter that property they have themselves to blame if they're not watching where they're going.
Besides, you can prove that you've been salting the patch for a while now (break a multilayered piece off and put it in the freezer), and you obviously did all the salting you could with the time you had.
Let me tell you a filthy story. Last sunday I was helping out in a church selling tickets for an opera consert and this man comes up in the line, I say the price is 100 kronor, he says he just came from the US and have only dollars on him and wanted me to take his credit card instead. I and my associate where standing at a small table stand with a tin money box, a stack of show programmes, a pencil and a paper on it. Did it look like we had a card reader and a phone line? I said that we didn't have the facilities to charge credit cards, and then this bitter old fart started going on about how the church should damn well be able to receive anyone wanting to pay them money and that we were doing a bad job and this was an outrage. I said that this concert isn't arranged by the church but by the choir itself (with the church's permission), the man got a bit blustered but responded with a curt "oh.", at which point the choir leader happened to walk by and asked if there was any trouble. After he got briefed by us he asked the man for 17$ which the man promptly payed, I gave him his free programme and everything went smooth after that. Epilogue: 100 kronor is actually 14.7$ so I see the extra two bucks as his due for being an ill prepared ass.
Moral of story: People often try to disguise opinion as fact when they want better or free service, calling them on it should shut them up.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Wait, what, you're required by law to sweep the snow from the pavement outside your house?
I'm not exactly clear on what the letter of the law is around here. From what I hear, it is 24 hours after a major snowfall. Some people say that it is the sidewalk that has to be cleared itself, but there is usually a city-owned sidewalk plow that takes care of that usually within that 24 hours. Others say it is the actual driveway, but then again, it shouldn't really matter since if you don't do it, you can't get out of your house anyway. Some others say that if you live in a road that sees considerable traffic, the driveway HAS to be cleared so that cars visiting your residence do not have to park on the road itself (more likely our case).
This only applies to Markham however (where my parents live). I do believe that the bylaws in Toronto are a bit tougher if you're closer to the downtown core, considering increased pedestrian traffic, in which case the sidewalk HAS to be plowed. Whatever the bylaw is, if there is no compliance, what happens is that the city comes in and does it for you at its discretion and they bill you for the cost.
quote:Originally posted by Nim': No, that is bullshit, the lawn is your parents' property, if anyone chooses to enter that property they have themselves to blame if they're not watching where they're going.
Over here, if a commercial business does not salt its pedestrian pathways and someone slips and injures themselves as a result, then the business can be sued for personal injury and other damages.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
There's a difference between personal property and business property.
Posted by Marauth (Member # 1320) on :
A big difference, over here in the UK if someone enters your private property - so much as a milimetre, without your permission they are a tresspasser and only have very minimal protection under the 1984 Occupier's Liability Act (which added this protection, before under '57 Act they were on their own) Now as long as you don't actively try and harm people entering your property you're safe, things like ice, if it's too much effort on your part to fix the problem then it's okay.
Business over here are screwed over in favour of the claimant just like you guys though.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Wile snow is never an issue where I live, In Florida if someone is on your property without your invitation or permission, they enter at their own risk.
For instance, if your dog bites someone posting flyers (on your property), it'd their fault for entering your property without permission.
Best bet: talk with your dad about it first and then call the local non-emergency police number to ask what (if anything) your responsibility could be and be sure to mention that this guy seems out for money. You'll be on record as doing the right thing and this guy's attempt o shake you down will also be on record.
Did anyone even witness this supposed fall? If not, feel free to laugh in this old fuck's face. I sure would. (of coure, see my sig-line for Nim's opinion of my advice)
Posted by Nim' (Member # 205) on :
Laughing in the face of old fucks is not the same as abetting triple whoring on lonesome bachelor nights to impressionable youths.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Well, it depends on how you laugh at them. I can put a lot of emphasis into a laugh.
In this case it would be along the lines of "HA HA! Your kid shatterted his pelvis on my property! You should've really given him more dairy products for strong bones I guess..."
Or a simple "Sucks to be you." might work as well.
And I stand by my stance on whoring: nothings wrong with it as long as you use protection. Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
Find the guys address, go over and "slip" on a patch of ice in his driveway.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Go over an flood his lawn into a ice-rink.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
He came about this morning as I was on my way to work, I was salting the ice patch again just in case. He went to talk to me about an "offer", that we pay him $5000 to cover any "damages" incurred as a result of the "accident" and he will not take us to court to which he says he is "very confident" that he would "win".
I asked him about his son, how hurt is he. All he would reply is "very bad". I asked him to elaborate. He again said "very bad and that is all you need to know". I then asked him for a phone number so where we can contact him. He refused saying that we would use the number to "harrass him" (*snicker* look who's talking asshole).
I then gave him my counter-offer: get off our property and don't ever come back or we're calling the police on extortion and tresspassing.
He left saying that I made a very bad mistake and I would "regret it deeply".
I told this to my parents and they basically said that this guy is off his rocker. My dad was actually chomping at the bit to get at this guy. My mom pointed out three things: 1) the ice is actually recent, 2) I got home later than expected, and 3) I was actually salting the patch the moment I came in. No negligence there. They're not too concerned about this.
Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
Okay, I'm leaning more towards "fraud" here than "opportunist" based on your last post. Suddenly, he'll let the whole thing for just $5000? Especially when he initially said he'd sue for tens/hundreds of thousands? If the guy shows up again, I think you ought to call the police to deal with him. Every thing you've recounted for us about this guy sounds fishy; I'm wondering if the guy's a con artist now.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
I dunno, but wasn't there some debate about even clearing snow, let along salting stuff along your property in Toronto a few months back? Something along the lines of whether the city had the authority to enforce something like that...
Anyways, the best I can find is: http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/legdocs/bylaws/1999/law0530.htm which says that legally you have 12 hours anyways before a fine of $102, but this would be a civil suit anyways so I'm not sure how the interaction there works.
Sounds like a con anyways, how could you ever give it any thought if you don't even have his phone number to send him a decision? He probably wanted you to pay on the spot without thinking and thats just fishy.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
I suggest the 50 cent solution....
the cost of a .357 slug.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Nice.
Just call the police fraud unit on this to cover yourself, allright? Otherwise you may have this scammer stage a fall in front of witnesses and you'd have only your word that he tried shake you down before.
He's probably done this scam with other people before and may have a record of complaints against him already. Heck, he probably does not even have a kid!
Wouldn't it be nice to see the police arrest him?
I'd laugh.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Was this person actually putting his fingers up in the air everytime he "spoke" to you? Because that sort of behaviour is "weird" and is the sort of thing I would expect from a "twat".
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Erm, yes, actually.
Well anyway, none of us has ever heard from this guy since Tuesday, so I will have to assume that the whole thing is a non-starter.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
![[Wink]](wink.gif)