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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Uh... Well, Romulans, anyway. My question is: are Romulus and Remus planets or stars? They've basically been made out to be planets, but that one display from TOS (duplicated in the encyclopedia-2) suggests that they are much to far away from each other to be planets. Unless "Romii" was not meant to be the same as Remus (more on my Romii/Remus theory, if necessary).

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"I ran into Charlie Fogg.
He blacked my eye, and he kicked my dog.
My dog turned to me, and he said,
'Let's head back to Tennessee, Jed.'"
-The Grateful Dead, "Tennessee Jed"

Posted by Trinculo on :

I think that Romulus and Romii are star systems. The star system Romulus is capital to the Romulan Star Empire. Since Remus has been mentioned once, I have no understanding of Remus as either a planet, star, or something else.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Yes, Romulus is a planet. As for Remus, it's supposed to be Romulus' double, but I'm not sure if it has ever been explicitly stated as such.

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--
Soul Coughing

Posted by Trinculo on :

If Romulus is a planet, then Romii (Remus) is a planet. The inference then is that the outposts are asteriods that lie in an asteriod belt. This might be the case. If I remember correctly, the Romulan ship had no warp capability. It had impulse capablity only. (Reference, Mr. Scotty). And in Star Trek: Insurrection, Admiral Doherty said the Romulans didn't have warp capability until a hundred years before (2375 minus 100 equals 2275). At which point, they stopped being Romulan thugs and developed a great empire. (The early 24th century war between the Federation and the Romulans and the battles with the Klingons of the same century may be the result of aggression by the Romulans.) I have always wondered what the Romulans got from the deal with the Klingons. Could the Romulans have gotten warp capability?

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

I don't remember any mention of the Romulans in "Insurrection". When did he say that?

There are two possibilities for Romulus and Remus:

1. Romulus and Remus are planets in the same star system, and the Federation outposts and Neutral Zone are very close to this star system, so they can be reached by a warpless Romulan ship. Remus was either mislabeled "Romii" (improbable) or Romii is an alternative or early name that was later changed to Remus because it better suits Romulus. The Romulans didn't have warp drive at that time and got it as late as they obtained the first D-7 starships from the Klingons in 2267 or 2268.

2. Romulus and Remus are two star systems, and there are some light years in between them and to the outposts. This would require the Romulans did have warp capability at that time, and the Romulan BoP only couldn't use it because the cloaking consumed most of the energy. Another point is that the Neutral Zone still exists in the 24th century, and is now several light years wide and contains several class M planets. I doubt the Federation would abandon part of their territory close to Earth in favor of the NZ, so it seems more probable the size has not been changed.

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Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

I recall someone suggesting Romii was actually "Rom-II"...

Not that I believe that.

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Posted by Trinculo on :

Bernd:
Scene-Captain's Ready Room, USS Enterprise E
Sonai leader has walked out in angry. Adm. Doherty and Capt. Picard are discussing the relocation of the Baku. During the course of their conversation, Adm. Doherty mentions the Romulans.

The Neutral Zone is expanded under the Treaty of Algeron, following a war with the Romulans, early 24th Century.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I reckon that Romulus and Remus (Romii) are both planets - and both are depicted in each claw of the 'bird' In the Romulan logo...

They are either two planets in the same system or two VERY close Star Systems...

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"I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die, while you discuss this invasion in a committee" Queen Amidala - Star Wars: Episode 1, The Phantom Menace

Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :

Romulus is most definitely a planet, at the least.

The display in the Encyclopedia is taken from the episode, IIRC, so I've always assumed them to be two separate star systems, with perhaps Remus as the planet in the Romii system.

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

IIRC?

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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

IIRC, IIRC stands for "If I Remember Correctly," unless I don't RC, in which case IIRC is "If I Recall Correctly."

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

It means both. Or either one. Or one, then the other, then the first one again. Or it's all metaphysical and we'll never understand it. :-)

Anyway, if the RNZ is a light-year across, and that display is to scale, Romulus and Romii certainly seem to far apart to be planets. I think it is either a binary star system whose stars are relatively distant, or it is just two stars that are relatively close. If the stars themselves aren't called Romulus and Romii, then at least Romulus orbits one of them and Romii the other.

As for the Romii/Remus issue... I think "Romulus" is a very close rendition of the actual Romulan word for the planet. I think the closest transliteration of the other planet's name into English is "Romii". However, due to the myhtology of Romulus and Remus, and the fact that "Romii" and "Remus" aren't that different, Terrans took to calling it "Remus". And, since everything on Trek is translated into English for us the viewers, we hear it as Remus. "Romii", being the more "official" name, is what showed up on the computer read-out.

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"I ran into Charlie Fogg.
He blacked my eye, and he kicked my dog.
My dog turned to me, and he said,
'Let's head back to Tennessee, Jed.'"
-The Grateful Dead, "Tennessee Jed"

Posted by Sunspot (Member # 77) on :

IIRC, the Romulan home system is a binary one.

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Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Actually, that lack of warp tecnology in Balance of Terror still makes no sense to me.

Was the entire battle taking place in the Romulus star system?

How come their plasma weapong could travel at warp (it caught up to the Enterprise) when they couldn't?

And why couldn't the Enterprise out run them?

For that matter, exactly what sort of threat WERE the Romulans without warp tecnology? It's take them YEARS just to reach the neighbouring star system. How would they resupply? Fed ships could warp in, blast them with photorps, warp out and rearm, and come back, with the Romulans having no opportunity to rearm or resupply.

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Posted by Trinculo on :

According to the James Blish adaptation of the Balance of Terror, the Romulans came out of their solar system and were met by the Terrans. The Terrans had warp drive and were able to drive the Romulans back to their home system. The war ended with the creation of the Neutral Zone. (US vs. Serbia). As for the weapon, scientists in our own culture can make a photon go faster than the light barrier. The weapon, a plasma shot, is a tightly condensed ball of energy. I take this to mean the Romulans were capable of launching weapons at warp velocities but didn't have the technology to travel in ships at warp velocities.

In all this discussion, I have not seen a mention of the comet. This is a very important clue. Comets don't produce tails unless they are close to a sun. The sun's rays burn the ice into a gaseous form. That comet in the episode had a huge tail.

My vision of the home system of the Romulans-
The Romulans live on a planet named Romulus. A large satellite of Romulus, be it planet or moon,is called Remus (Romii). ("The Defector", a large terrestial body can be seen in the night sky.) In our solar system, Romulus could be at the point where Earth is. And the asteriod field of the Romulus System could lie between (in our solar system) Mars and Earth.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

The only problem with the Romulans not having warp drive is that it makes the Earth Alliance, and later the Federation, look like the aggressors. Now, while they certainly could have been, I highly doubt that's what Roddenberry intended. So why would a warp culture ever have to fight a prewarp one? Even if their weapons could go faster than light, without FTL sensors it couldn't be aimed.

Personally, I lean towards Diane Duane's explanation of the whole thing, but that's not canon.

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"According to myth, the earth was created in six days. Now watch out! Here comes Genesis. We'll do it for you in six minutes."
--
Dr. Leonard H. McCoy

Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :

Face it, Tim, we'll never know - all that sensorship they have. . . 8P

Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :

I forgot to say I like my second theory more, because of the arguments that have been mentioned by PsyLiam and Sol.

Posted by Baloo (Member # 5) on :

How the Romulans got Warp drive (Speculation about how Earth wound up fighting a war with people it should've been able to safely ignore).

--Baloo

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I like the idea that Romulans don't have WARP - but they use another FTL technology, i.e. that Forced Arcifical Quantum Singularity seen in "Time scape" - TNG

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"I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die, while you discuss this invasion in a committee" Queen Amidala - Star Wars: Episode 1, The Phantom Menace

Posted by Trinculo on :

Known Facts

Engineering
Romulans operated sublight ships to the mid-2260's("Balance of Terror")
Romulans didn't have warp drive until the 2270's ("Insurrection")

Celestial
Icarus IV is a comet that is experiencing the full effect of a sun or suns ("Balance of Terror"). Evidence-prominent tail. In our system, a comet doesn't develop a tail until the orbital path of Mars has been passed (over 1 au).
The first outposts were established on asteriods. Asteriods, as far as we know, exist within a sun system-the outer boundary (Kuiper Belt) and in space between Mars and Jupiter.

I have no explanation for the why? of the first Romulan War. The war has been mentioned, I believe, only twice.