I'm putting this here because there's not really a TNG spot that I could find.
I've come to the conclusion that Picard must have commanded a ship between the Stargazer and the Enterprise D. He talls Tasha's sister in "Legacy" TNG that his ship responded to a distress call that Lt. Yar was assisting in and he decided then to have her on his NEXT command. This ship couldn't have been the Enterprise D because Yar was on board that ship before Picard. Couldn't be the Stargazer either, because Yar would've have been a child, if she was even born, when the Stargazer was destroyed.
It's possible that Picard served in some sort of black ops capacity and thus has never spoken about that ship or the events that took place there.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
I don't remember ever hearing of another ship, but it is an interesting speculation.
Anybody know when the Stargazer went boom, and what Picard was doing between times?
------------------ "One Tequila, Two Tequila, Three Tequila, Floor". George Carlin
Posted by KXZ (Member # 119) on :
Wasn't the Stargazer destroyed in 2355. Eight years between then and the Enterprise.
------------------ All hands, abandon ship! All hand, abandon... BOOM!
Posted by jh on :
I kind of always took it as a given that he had a ship between the Stargazer and the Enterprise. Beyond the Yar bit of chronology In "The Battle" they give the date that it was lost and there is definite mention that "the Picard Maneuver" is standard tactical teaching at the Academy so you have to figure that someone on the Ent-D had been taught that (Worf maybe? or one of the younger crewmembers). Plus it just seems unlikely to me that they would have given such an advanced (at the time) ship like the E-D to a captain whose only previous command was a Constellation class, even if he did command it for a long time. Which is another question, given his approximate age, how long did he have the Stargazer?
------------------ Proverbs for Paranoids, 3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I believe he commanded the Stargazer for about 22 years (which actually puts Picard in his 70s or 80s I believe). And there had been many years between the big Stargazer bang and the Ent D.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by KXZ (Member # 119) on :
Picard was born in 2305. It is now 2376 (I think). He would be 71.
------------------ All hands, abandon ship! All hand, abandon... BOOM!
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Wow, and he only appears to be 59 years old!
------------------ "This is where the adventure is. This is where heroes are made." - Dr. Bashir Federation Starship Datalink - Starship site of the new millennium.
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
Plastic Surgery?
------------------ "One Tequila, Two Tequila, Three Tequila, Floor". George Carlin
Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :
Increased lifespan. I get the impression that McCoy's age in "Encounter at Farpoint" wasn't that unusual, even for a medical genius.
Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :
And yet here he is chasing after 30 and 40 year old women. Picard's a dirty old man.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
A healthy intake of the spice, perhaps.
------------------ "Quadrilateral I was, now I warp like a smile." -- Soul Coughing
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Is that a reference to Dune? IS IT? Don't make fun of Dune, man. Those heart plugs were coooool!
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
Sol is actually our chief Dune fan.
------------------ Frank's Home Page "I can't find any good quotations." - Frank G
Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :
I thought he was our ONLY Dune fan. . . which is probably the same thing. 8)
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
And as said Dune fan, I'll avoid noticing the fact that it is the movie being referenced.
------------------ "Quadrilateral I was, now I warp like a smile." -- Soul Coughing
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Perhaps Picard was never really in command of a ship at that time. I have a feeling that not all captains are assigned starships and the like. Some Captains are probably given tenures at institutions such as Starfleet Academy.
Likely that Captain Picard was a guest on a vessel which also responded to the emergency that particular day when he met Tasha Yar. What he was doing there could be anyone's guess: diplomatic mission, training cadets, on vacation to Risa, etc.etc.
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited October 14, 1999).]
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Unfortunately "All Good Things..." shows that Picard and Yar didn't meet until just before the D's launch. Isn't that a bit of a contradiction? (I haven't seen "Legacy").
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Did they actually say in AGT that they hadn't met prior to that? And besides, even if they did, it's possible that Picard saw her previously, but they never actually spoke.
------------------ "It'd be a pity if every pencil on Earth suddenly collapsed in on itself and blew everything up." -Krenim, TNO chat, September 30, 1999
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
It was implied in All Good Things that the two had never met. It was definate that Picard had never been on board before. He probably saw Tasha before but never actually met her until the traditional shuttle ride over.
As far as Picard not being in command of the ship that responded to the referenced distres call as mentioned in Legacy, he clearly refered to her a "my ship". I believe those were his exact words.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by jh on :
I don't even read the ST novels but this sounds like an idea for a new book series. Picard: The lost years. All about his second ship. Hmmmm???
------------------ Proverbs for Paranoids, 3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
My thought exactly. Actually, I've already come up with a little story line if I may...
Star Trek: Valhalla. Picard commands the Steamrunner Class U.S.S. Valhalla during the Cardassian or Tzen'Kethi Wars. He is involved in a secret strike force or something. This would explain the silence as well as bring back the Cardies. It would also allow for a little exploration since they'd be in little explored space.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :
I thought there was something about Picard helping Yar in the past. . . getting into the Academy or something. I'm probably wrong though. And it amazes me how they HAVE ignored Picard's lost years, especially when the much-hypothesized "second five-year mission" of the TOS crew between TMP and TWOK has had enough written about it to fill a TEN year mission!
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
I like the idea for the story. May want to use a bigger ship.
------------------ "One Tequila, Two Tequila, Three Tequila, Floor". George Carlin
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Captain Picard commanding a dingy Steamrunner Class? I think I speak for many other people when I say BLEEEAAAACCCHHH!!!!!!!!
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :
There has to be an intermediate stage of sorts. I mean, he went from commanding a poxy little Constellation - for TWENTY YEARS - one of the oldest ships in the fleet, to commanding the newest, AND the flagship to boot! He'd been involved in the building/designing/whatever of the Galaxies, but had never been on one before.
I'd rule out an Ambassador or an Excelsior. He'd never served on a ship with families before. If even Mirandas have families, that suggests something unusual. I wouldn't rule out a Steamrunner - it's unlikely that ANY ship we saw on TNG would be the class concerned, or else he'd have got all misty-eyed whenever they saw one. Therefore the FC ships fit the bill nicely.
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
It says a lot more if you can command a ship like a Constellation well as opposed to a large ship in a mediocre way.
I would imagine only the Type III Mirandas have families, although we haven't seen enough of the others to tell. The Excelsiors might not, and Ambassadors probably do (as with the Gandhi).
------------------ Frank's Home Page "I can't find any good quotations." - Frank G
[This message has been edited by The Shadow (edited October 15, 1999).]
Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :
I got the impression the Galaxy was the first ship to have families.
I think if asked today they would make Picard younger, too. I'd say the character should be early sixties, and stay there.
------------------ With 17 hours of class, guess what I'm doing.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The Galaxy wasn't the first class to carry families (although the families posted to Galaxy Class ships obviously had the best time). Tom Riker mentioned bringing familiy aboard the Gandhi and Sisko had family aboard the Saratoga.
I suggested the Steamrunner class to get an intermediate ship sizewise and date wise. It could be any of the FC ships or one of the non canon ships, like the Sequoia or Wambundu Classes. But if it were made into books, how would you illustrate a ship that hasn't been seen yet? We artists have to think about things like this. And there aren't many illustrators out there that I would trust to come up with a cool ship design.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Justin_Timberland (Member # 236) on :
It's so logical that Picard commanded another ship after the Stargazer and before the Enterprise-D. He, just like every other Starfleet officer, had to have had a long history of command experience which could include command of more than one ship. There is a long gap between the time he lost the Stargazer and him taking command of the Enterprise. He could have commanded an Ambassador Class after the Stargazer, since those ships have components that were used on the Galaxy classes. And I'd think Starfleet wouldn't assign a captain of an Oberth class to command a Galaxy class. It's logical to believe that someone in command of the former top of the line class would be given command of the new top of the line class.
------------------ "Women feel the emotions of happiness, hatred, anger, helplessness, and desire.
Men on the other hand feel the guy version, Horny."
-Michael_T
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
Not really; that would mean capable captains would be locked into commanding lesser ships and such. I mean, they have to move up at some point.
------------------ Frank's Home Page "Don't worry; in Season Two we abandon it for 'I Am A Sock-Puppet!'" - Bob Skir
Posted by jh on :
Weekend project for someone:
Run through "All Good Things" and find the scene in the shuttle bay where Picard comes aboard the E-D. The orders he reads go something like "From SF Command to Capt Jean Luc Picard" and then I believe they say "commanding officer USS..... You are hereby requested and required to..."
Do they give his second command there? Am I imagining that?
------------------ Proverbs for Paranoids, 3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
Posted by Elim Garak (Member # 14) on :
I just saw "All Good Things..., Part I" a few days ago and I don't remember them giving a previous ship.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :
No, they didn't.
Posted by grb on :
USS Enterprise ncc-1701-B mosified excelsior-class starship, one of the most advancd ships in the fleet commanded by first time captain, John "Tuesday" Harriman
You need a former captain of a top-of-the-line ship to command a new top-of-the-line ship? Starfleet doesn;t seem to think so.....
But it does make alot of sense that Picard did something between the Stargazer and the Enterprise. They wouldn;t have him sitting at starfleet command for so many years.
------------------ USS Infinity NX-157240 First Transwarp Ship of the Fleet Epsilon Omega Shipyards
"It's like I said, the more things change, the more they stay the same."-Unknown Vulcan Philosopher
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
John "Tuesday" Harriman *LOL*
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Ya mean like how he got all misty-eyed at the Hathaway in Peak Performance? Yup, he was forever breaking down into tears...
------------------ Cordellia: "Well, does looking at guns make you wanna have sex?" Xander: "I'm seventeen. Looking at linoleum makes me wanna have sex."
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, regarding promotion in starfleet, it's kinda wierd. The U.S. Navy assigns captains to ships for only a specific period of time. The whole point is to get command of a bigger and better ship.
Starfleet seems to assign captains for the life of the ship or until they are promoted to Admiral. In the Navy, a 22 year command (as with Picard and the Stargazer) would be unheard of. So I'd conjecture that Picard's second command was either destroyed or decommissioned and it's wouldn't necessarily have to have been a ship of the line.
By the by, the Ambassador class was not the state of the art up until the Galaxy. Nebulas, Akiras, Steamrunners, and several others all predate the Galaxy but were introduced after the Ambassador. I would thereby say that they were state of the art, even though smaller and possibly less powerful.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :
I don't agree with you reasoning.
Okay so we've seen dudes who end up serving on/commanding the same ship forever. This does not mean it is the status quo. I mean look at tours of duty. Untill they get on the Enterprise (or whatever the platform for the series may be) most characters have served at several different ships/stations. Then they get on the Enterprise and never leave. I would think that there is a probably an average rotation worked out for personnel and commanding officers. But if you are Jean Luc Picard and you want to stay where you are, you get to because you have lots of friends in high places are are generally held in high regard by starfleet. In other words people like Picard and the officers under him have the option of sidestepping transfers if they wish to. This is generally not a good strategy for a career minded individual as transfers and promotions often go hand in hand. Riker would have been a captain (or at least had his own command for over a decade now had he not decided to rot his career away on the Enterprise).
------------------ "Stood in firelight, sweltering bloodstain on chest like map of violent new continent." -Rorschach
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
You make a very good point. It is very likely that senior officers have a little say in their assignments. It also makes sense that people who are good at what they do want to stay where they are. I think longer tours of duty and longer commands may also come from the nature of deep space exploration. Unlike the Navy, Starfleet likely has many long term assignments going on. "O.K. Capt Bob, we're giving you command of a Galaxy Class. Turn your Intrepid around, come back 5,000 light years and we'll get a new captain." Unfortunatley, we've really only seen a very narrow slice of Starfleet policies and proceedures.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
Riker would likley be dead if he had excepted command of the Melbourne.
------------------ "One Tequila, Two Tequila, Three Tequila, Floor". George Carlin
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Now wouldn't that have been terrible?
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Sorry, I'm slightly confused by Bryce's comment waayy up there that Picard should be early sixties, and stay there. First, it's the 24th century. People live longer. Get over it. And second, how can he stay there? This isn't the Simpsons ya know...
------------------ Cordellia: "Well, does looking at guns make you wanna have sex?" Xander: "I'm seventeen. Looking at linoleum makes me wanna have sex."
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, he can't stay there but after his trip to Bak'u in Insurrection, I think it's safe to say that Picard is about the same age as Patrick Stewart.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
But then shouldn't Picard in the next film look like Picard did in 'Encounter at farpoint'?
Although I probably couldn't spot the difference. Aside from getting fat, the male TNG cast doesn't seem to have aged much in 10 years.
------------------ Cordellia: "Well, does looking at guns make you wanna have sex?" Xander: "I'm seventeen. Looking at linoleum makes me wanna have sex."
Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :
I think AGT illustrated that Patrick Stewart hadn't changed much as he looked exactly as he had in the original farpoint scenes, cept his skin always looked a little more pasty back then. I think that Riker actually did show his age quite a bit by shaving off the beard. When he grew the thing it made him look five years older, now I'd say it makes him look ten years younger.
Posted by Saboc on :
I wish that Riker accepted the offer to command the Melbourne. So that he can get blown up along with the ship. I hate him. Can anyone here tell me an officer who is more arrogant than Riker? I personally think Riker is not that smart. And he walks like a girl!!!
------------------ -Father of Vulcan phylosophy(forgot his name): "Nothing unreal exists" -Spock: "Logic is the beginning of wisdom..."
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Nah, Riker's the Man! He get's lots of chicks (including Troi). And let's face it, if you get on his good side, he'd be alot of fun to work for.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
I went to a convention in San Francisco a few years ago and Riker was there. He said he tries to walk like John Wayne. Are you suggesting that John Wayne walks like a girl???!!!!! I'm shocked, shocked, and appalled. By the way, I hate Riker too, but I like John Wayne movies. Check out Stagecoach, They Were Expendable, Red River, or The Searchers.
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Posted by Saboc on :
Are you kidding? Riker's walk is nothing like John W. And I don't think it's fun working with Riker. His Romulan warbird sized ego is enough to sufficate you to death even if you're 2 light years away.
------------------ -Surak: "Nothing unreal exists" -Spock: "Logic is the beginning of wisdom..."
Posted by Saboc on :
sorry...I thought my first message didn't get posted the first time I tried. So I did it again...Sorry..
------------------ -Surak: "Nothing unreal exists" -Spock: "Logic is the beginning of wisdom..."
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Well, that's what he said, not me. Riker's sort of leads with one shoulder like John Wayne did. He also walks like his momentum is about to send him in undesired directions. Might be a weight problem.
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Posted by jh on :
"It was a slow walk in a sad rain, and nobody tried to be John Wayne. I came home but Tex did not, and I can't talk about the hit he got. Drive on."
Okay, sorry, non-sequitor there but I couldn't help it. I've had that song in my head all day.
------------------ Proverbs for Paranoids, 3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
Posted by Saboc on :
Riker walks like a duck. He sways from one side to another. Also, I think Frake is such a horrible actor. But that's just me. How the heck did he nail the initial audition? Anyway, Picard is too old now. He should retire or accept an offer to become admiral or something like that. I don't get it. Picard as captain is no better than Sisko or Janeway or even DeSoto. Why does he get to captain the flagship? (I guess I could like Picard more if he inflated his ego a bit and should act a bit humble. I think that could help)
------------------ -Surak: "Nothing unreal exists" -Spock: "Logic is the beginning of wisdom..."
[This message has been edited by Saboc (edited November 16, 1999).]
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
Saboc: Although I hate Riker, I've never known a person to despise him with such a passion as you (take this as a compliment ).
Are you kidding, Picard is so perfect it's almost sickening. I can't think of anyone more suitable to captain the flagship. Sisko is my favourite captain but that doesn't make him the most qualified.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
Posted by Saboc on :
:::frozen in disbelieve:::: Picard is perfect it makes you sick? Picard is no perfect. When he was young, because he was scared, he left his girlfriend in Paris and never contacted her again. What kind of a man is he? Next point, just because he has like what a billion years of command experience doesn't make him a "perfect" captain. The reason why he gets the job done better than other captains is that he has a better ship. That's all. For example, in first contact, thanks to his ship, he destroyed the Borg. Do you think that Picard could have destroyed the Borg commanding a Miranda class? Any captain could have destroyed the Borg and restored the timeline if they had the flagship...
------------------ Spend all your time waiting for a second chance, a break that would make it ok...
Posted by Saboc on :
As for Riker, just because he can get lots of girls and can bluff at a poker game that doesn't make a him better officer. I hate Riker... (I"m sure you all know that by now..lol...)I personally think Kira and Dax and a bunch of other officers are much better him.
------------------ Spend all your time waiting for a second chance, a break that would make it ok...
Posted by Lt. Tom on :
I don't think Dax was saying that Picard being the very model of a modern starship captain makes him sick--it's a figure of speech.
I've got to disagree with you about the starship making all the difference. Picard has a better ship because he gets the job done better. Could Picard have used the same strategy that he did in FC if he was in command of a Miranda? No. But he'd have found another way. Although I'm sure Starfleet has several other captains who could have done the job, four pips and a seat on a Sovvy's bridge doesn't automagically solve everything.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Uh...huh? Picard was very likely the only person in the entire galaxy who could have saved the Federation. It had nothing to do with his ship. It was because he was still partially tuned in to the Collective.
------------------ "And if we weren't good to you, Dave, you shouldn't take it all the way to your grave." -- Will Rigby
Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :
Come on people, the reason Picard's second command is a mystery is because he was assigned to Starfleet intelligence. He may have command one or many ships, so I think we should be contemplating what he was doing all those years, and not what he was flying. The lack of information about this period in his life would also be consistent an individual that is either unwilling to talk or not privilaged to talk. We know from his statement in Encounter at Farpoint that he asked Starfleet for a ship without children, and what was the reason for going to Farpoint station in the first place? Picard was on a mission to discover the origins of Farpoint station itself. Think about it, the whole reason for him being there was to collect intelligence and somewhere along the line he was given the opportunity to stay.
Not to throw everything into disarray, but wasn't there a line somewhere with Picard stating that he has commanded starships for X years, X barely being the sum of his Stargazer years and the E-D years up to that point? I really cannot remember the reference now, but I'm 100% sure I read about the oddity in Larry Nemecek's TNG Companion.
The second command implied by the line in "Legacy" would have to have been a very brief one, then. It is quite possible that a position in SFI would let Picard commandeer ships for brief periods. Other postings might allow for such commandeering as well, though. But the job description would have to be something else than commanding starships on a regular basis. SFI fits the bill better than a dull desk job, considering how Picard is the #1 choice for the mission in "Chain of Command", or other undercover jobs.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I like the idea of Picard having been in SFI for a time and not being disposed to talk about his time there. It would explain the complete silence on the subject. What do you think of Picard as an unwilling agent of Section 31? Possible?
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Well... maybe not Section 31. Most likely Starfleet's main intelligence bureau.
------------------ Calvin: "I'm a man of few words." Hobbes: "Maybe if you read more, you'd have a larger vocabulary." Federation Starship Datalink - Starship site of the new millennium.
Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :
According to the Star Trek Encyclopedia, (the bible), he went straight to the ENTERPRISE-D from the STARGAZER.
SO let's see here... Picard commanded the Stargazer until the year 2255, until such time that it was attacked by the Ferengi near the Maxia Zeta Star System.
Following this incident, he was court-martialed and was exonerated.
And then he got command of the Enterprise-D in the year 2263 What happened to 8 years. WOW.. what a hole in time that is.. can you tell me that he was being court-martialled for 8 years??
ACK.
------------------ Alshrim Dax
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, I don't think that the Bible is supposed to be canon. It's simply a writer's guide probably used mostly at the beginning of the series. Obviously, there is some missing time and, as comments on the show suggest, he was definately doing something.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well we know why he was exonerated - he was doing Phillipa Louvois
------------------ Ralph: Um, Miss Hoover? There's a dog in the vent. Hoover: Ralph, remember the time you said Snagglepuss was outside? Ralph: He was going to the bathroom.
Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :
LOL - YOU KILL ME BWAHAHAHA!!!!
------------------ Alshrim Dax
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I could say "I kill me" but we'd be getting into "ALF" territory... heh heh
Milhouse: "Look Bart! ALF's back... in POG form"
------------------ Ralph: Um, Miss Hoover? There's a dog in the vent. Hoover: Ralph, remember the time you said Snagglepuss was outside? Ralph: He was going to the bathroom.
