I wonder who was/were the first species in the Borg Collective. I remember the Queen told Seven of Nine her original species, but I don't remember. lol And also, what does it take for a drone to become the Queen?
------------------ -Father of Vulcan phylosophy(forgot his name): "Nothing unreal exists" -Spock: "Logic is the beginning of wisdom..."
Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :
The queen's species was 125.
------------------ Quark-"Stop. Or I'll disintigrate this hostage."
20th Century General-"With Your Finger?"
Quark-"With my death ray."
20th Century General-"Looks alot like a finger to me."
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
See the thread in the Creativity forum called "A story in search of a middle" for more on this.
I personally don't think that a drone becomes a the Queen. I believe that the Queen is a consciousness that exists within the collective capable of being wherever it wants to be. It can take a body during an occurance of specific importance.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Lt. Tom on :
Thank you, Aban! I was tearing my hair out looking for that thread! Posted by Saboc on :
Does anyone know how the Borg started? In the episode "Dragon's Teeth" or something like that, one of the aliens mentioned that before he went into stasis, the Borg was in only several systems. So I guess the Borg is only about 900 years old, species-wide. Right? What do ya think?
------------------ -Father of Vulcan phylosophy(forgot his name): "Nothing unreal exists" -Spock: "Logic is the beginning of wisdom..."
[This message has been edited by Saboc (edited November 16, 1999).]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
"Dragon's Teeth" certainly puts a bit of a limit on the Borg's backstory, unless we toss in some sort of catastrophe theory, ala the novel "Vendetta". (In which, if I recall correctly, the Borg have existed for thousands and thousands of years, but were stopped from overwhelming the galaxy by the ancient Iconians. Or was it the Preservers? Anyway...)
I have my own theories on the queen, which have been described here and will be, plug plug, on my upcoming Borg page.
------------------ "And if we weren't good to you, Dave, you shouldn't take it all the way to your grave." -- Will Rigby
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Then again, more than one character of the shows may be ignorant or lying. People who promote "ancient" Borg are limited to Q (who might be trying to scare Picard) and Guinan (who comes from a long-lived race that might have authentic knowledge of the distant past, but perhaps hasn't personally seen much of the Borg and has only very recently lost her homeworld to the Collective). People who promote "recent" Collective are in turn limited to "Dragon's Teeth".
Who in "Teeth" said the Borg were nobodies 900 years ago? Seven and the deep-sleep people who claimed to have once controlled the universe? The latter are probably
a) blatantly lying and/or b) full of their own propaganda and/or c) ignorant of the actual might of the Borg.
The former... now, what *did* Seven say, exactly? I haven't seen the episode, and won't for a couple of years...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Seven simply replied that history on the Borg from 900 years ago was fragmentary.
------------------ Calvin: "I'm a man of few words." Hobbes: "Maybe if you read more, you'd have a larger vocabulary." Federation Starship Datalink - Now with a pop-up on every page...damn you Tripod!
Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :
I wouldn't be surprised. History is irrelevant. The Borg are concerned only with specific events and actions. Met this species, assimilated them. Met this species, assimilated them. Met this species, ignored them because they're not worth assimilating. Met this species, destroyed them. Met this species, assimilated them. And so forth.
------------------ Remo Williams: "Chiun, you're amazing!" Chiun: "No! I am BETTER than that!"
As is typical of my luck lately my local Voyager station pre-empted the episode in question for, ugh, a hockey game. What was the context of this discussion and can someone recall more specifically what was said?
------------------ Proverbs for Paranoids, 3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :
Dragon's Teeth spoilers $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ When the first of the Vardwuar woke up, and saw Seven, he mentioned that they had only assimilated a few species 900 years ago.
------------------ Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!! Gandalf
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Saboc, learn from Kosh and use SPOILERWARNINGS!!!!!
------------------ -You are crazy. -I thought I was pisces.
Posted by Saboc on :
I'm new to this so anyone mind explaning what "spoiler" means?
------------------ -Surak: "Nothing unreal exists" -Spock: "Logic is the beginning of wisdom..."
Posted by Saboc on :
Ok...In the "First Contact", the Borg queen told Data that (and I quote)..."brave words....I've heard that thousands and thousands of years ago, from thousands and thousands of species..." But in the "Dragon's Teeth", the stupid alien said that the Borg was a noboby only 900 years ago. Which or who can we believe?
------------------ -Surak: "Nothing unreal exists" -Spock: "Logic is the beginning of wisdom..."
Posted by The First One (Member # 35) on :
A 'spoiler' is when you post something about an episode you've seen that other people may not have seen. This includes people in other countries, mainly other than the North American continent - we tend to get the episodes a lot later. If in doubt, put our spoiler warning ($) in the thread title. Hell, put several!
I advise you to be VERY discretionary from now on. People round here will tell you how I respond to thoughtless idiots who can't think of other people. Assume that any ep less than a year old is rife with spoilable possibilities.
Do I sound harsh? Tough. We're a community here, and a community respects its individuals. If you don't, then you get your asses kicked. By me.
Posted by Saboc on :
Sorry everyone...I didn't know that... Once again, I'd like to apologize....
------------------ Spend all your time waiting for a second chance, a break that would make it ok...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"We're a community here, and a community respects its individuals."
Apparently, right up until the point at which they unwittingly do something you don't like, and then you bite their head off? Interesting concept...
------------------ "Alright, so it's impossible. How long will it take?" -Commander Adams, Forbidden Planet
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I suggest we move on, what.
What? Oh, right. Uh...how 'bout them Borgsters, eh? I bet they like to go.
------------------ "And if we weren't good to you, Dave, you shouldn't take it all the way to your grave." -- Will Rigby
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
If you think about the evolution of a society, the Borg could've existed a thousand or two years ago but not as we know them. They may have started out on a single planet and expanded though not with the full assimilation philosphy they have now. They may have only attained the power and notoriety in the last few centuries.
One problem I have with everybody knowing about the Borg though. How do you know about a species like that in such detail without them knowing about you. Everybody in the DQ seems to have heard of the Borg but they haven't been totally assimilated. Also, it seems as though the Borg should be alot farther spread than they are. Once you assimilate an entire region, there's not a whole lot of need to keep alot of troops aand ships there. There's no more resistance. There's no chance of attack. The Borg don't appear interested in colonization. Planets could be used for raw materials and construction, but I find it hard to believe that so many of the Borg ships are consentrated in Borg Space. Course, we don't know how many ships the Borg have. Maybe relatively few.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I think it is consistent to have races learn a thing or two about the Borg before being assimilated. It kinda puts the Feds in their place as a typical assimilation victim, instead of a brave stronghold of resistance.
Apparently, the Borg normally assimilate species at a relatively leisurely pace, sending single cubes to test the defences. This gives plenty of time for the victim to come to know the Borg. And this is a good thing, because then the victim can try to devise advanced defenses that the Borg can eventually assimilate.
Perhaps within the next century or two, the Borg will do to Earth what they did to Arturis' people prior to "Hope and Fear": they send multiple cubes and flatten the futile resistance. But not before the victim has developed something like slipstream warp or long-range teleporters or really powerful beam weapons or a new flavor of strawberry that makes them worth assimilating.
The Aardwar (what would the official spelling be?) may have seen the Borg assimilate some neighboring planets at this slow pace, and come to the erroneus conclusion that the Borg were weak.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The Federation and, presumably, everyone around them know about the Borg, but they haven't been assimilated. I think it makes sense that everyone in the DQ would know about this "scourge of the galaxy", even if they haven't been done in by them.
And I think I saw someone spell it "Vaarduar", but I don't know for sure. When I watched the episode, I never even figured out quite how it was pronounced... *L*
------------------ "Alright, so it's impossible. How long will it take?" -Commander Adams, Forbidden Planet
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
The captioning said "Vaadwaur".
And I still want to know the nature of the relations between the Dominion and the Borg. They have to know about each other, and the Dominion has such a high level of technology that the Borg couldn't resist them. There'd have to be a stalemate. Maybe the Jem'Haddar and Vorta are designed to be impervious to assimilation, and their ships are designed to blow up if borded by Borg? That would keep Dommie tech out of Borg hands, and the Dominion could easily handle a single cube if the Borg couldn't adapt.
------------------ Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons; for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Why would the Dominion and the Borg know about each other? They're almost as far away from each other as each is from the Federation, and since the Dominion didn't have Q to accelerate their contact, and there's no known Delta-Gamma wormhole, I see no reason for the two to have any relation at all.
The Dominion might know about the Borg from their contact with the Federation, and vice versa, but there's no reason to assume that they MUST interact.
------------------ Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
I've placed spoiler marks at the title. Saboc, in the future, if you do plan to post something that has to do with a new ep or movie, please place dollar signs in your title as I have done above.
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
First of Two: I agree. I think the assumption is so far that the Borg have not yet reached Dominion Space. Although, it's certainly possible that the Borg have met some Dommie ships in the AQ during the war. Oooooh, how 'bout this? What if one of the hundred infant changelings sent out by the founders wandered into Borg space and and was assimilated? A changeling drone? Oooooooh. I kinda like that.
------------------ "Resolve and thou art free."
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Oh yeah, and I also can see your points about the Borg's leisurely pace of assimilation. They are certainly taking their time with the Feds. If there are almost always a few survivors, like Guinan and her friends, then word would tend to spread about this hostile force.
