Flare Sci-Fi Forums: How to beat the Borg?

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Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

The way I see it Picard was able to destroy the cube in First Contact due to a residual telepahic link to the Borg Collective Consciousness. He was able to, if he focussed, perceive some of the internal commands being circulated in the "brain" of the Borg. Thus he could anticipate, if he waited until just the right moment, a window of opportunity when a small section of ship would lose shielding/be regenerating/house a critical root command group for just those few seconds.

Lucky for him. But what about everyone else? Well, if the Borg consciousness can be sensed by Picard there are only two possibile ways of it working.
Technological transmissions, (they were "active over a subspace domain similar to a transporter" according to Data in BoBW2) If so, build a receiver to tap in and get useful info in battles. Perhaps tying in an "Interface" VR probe would allow swift reaction-time responses.

Alternatively, it could have been "true" telepathy, which could be difficult to harness with technology. So... (and this is the hilarious bit), perhaps Starfleet should equip each ship in a battle group with a few telepaths to tap in and anticipate.

Anyone who suggests Vulcan telepathy is due to prehistoric intereference from Species 8472 will get sat on.

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"I cannot live out that life.
That man is bereft of passion... and imagination!
That is not who I am!"

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I think being able to hear the Borg is only part of the solution. Picard knew what to do because of his experience as a drone, and a rather special one at that. Now, it might be possible to work up a translation from Picard's descriptions, and Seven's if they get the chance. But I wonder whether he was consciously aware of what was going on, or just had an instinctive "shoot here" response. Of course, even if only the latter, that could still prove useful.

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"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.

Posted by Justin_Timberland (Member # 236) on :

But WHAT about the rest of the fleet??

If Picard can't take the Enterprise-E on a detour and beat the Borg, what does the average command officer do? Does he eject all the ships records and hope he dies in battle than be assimilated? Does he go to ramming speed? Does he pray that the weapons hit the right spot?

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Sometimes I run
Sometimes I hide
Sometimes I'm scared of you
But all I really want is to hold you tight
Treat you right, be with you day and night
Baby all I need is time

-Britney Spears

Posted by grb on :

In the novelization of FC, Picard could hear the voices of the borg, and so heard drones commadning each other to repair a certain heavily damaged part of the cube. That was the part of the cube he heard the drones sa was very damaged, so that's where he told the fleet to shoot. Perhaps picard's assimilation changed the sturcture of his brain into some kind of subspace trasnmitter that heard the voiuces of the borg.

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Obviously you refuse to cooperate with me. Obviously you have no discipline to kepp the mouth shut. Obviously you don't. Let's try it that way, then you might get the hint. How many more minutes are we going to waste asking you not to talk? How many more!?!

Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :

I came up with a decent idea about how to beat the Borg a while back. Since the Borg collective operates via signals similar to transporter beams, I figured one could somehow integrate transporter inhibiters into an anti-Borg weapon. Come up with a field/beam that wrecks the ability of the hivemind to function. The Borg ship would not be able to adapt as well, and could be defeated a lot easier.

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"We exist in a boundless time continuum. There is no weekend!"

- Zorak, "Hungry," Space Ghost: Coast to Coast.

Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :

I know this isn't exactly the point, but I was watching First Contact the other day and noticed that the Borg never seem to shoot anyone with phasers. An Enterprise crewman would shoot until the Borg adapted their shields. Then the Borg would just walk up to the crewman and grab him. On the other hand, whenever anyone whacks them with a Batleth or a rifle stock, it seem to go right through the shield. Why doesn't the Federation just hit the borg with non-energetic weapons, like big rocks, baseball bats, swords, etc?

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum

Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :

I'm having an image of Starfleet officers beaming onto a Borg cube with wiffle bats, pool noodles, and Nerf guns.

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No I'm Spartacus!

Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :

Maybe they could use slinkies to poke out the borgs optical implants

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"Marge .. Do you have other men in this House ? .. Radioactive men?"
~Homer "The Simpsons"

Jupiter Station , Starfleet Research & Development

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Pool noodle? Is that like a cue?

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always end up saying "Don't forget the big heavy eyebrows." Then they would all get embarrassed because they remembered they had the big hunky eyebrows too, and then they would get mad and eat the snowman.

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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

No, it's one of those long foam things that you can use in swimming pools to float around on or whack people with.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

captain: "Crew, we're going to beam over to that Borg cube and give them what's for! Computer, replicate us fifteen Tommy guns, pronto!"

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"The Earl of Sandwich invented the sandwich. Samuel Morse invented the Morse Code. Plato invented the plate."
-Holly, Red Dwarf: "Parallel Universe"

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Now here is a scary thought:

Picard with a sword saying to the Borg Queen: "There can be only one!"

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"Reality is a condition that occurs because of a lack of alcohol."
- Albert Einstein

(-=\V/=-)

Posted by Dane Simri (Member # 272) on :

captain: "Crew, we're going to beam over to that Borg cube and give them what's for! Computer, replicate us fifteen Tommy guns, pronto!"

Of course, this is exactly what Picard did in the holodeck scene of ST:FC. There seems to be something to this projectile weapons thing... and don't tell me it's because those drones thought everything in the room was holograms and therefore let down their sheilds.

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Dane

"...and there was war in heaven..." The Bible, Revelation 12:7

Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :

On a more serious note, you could develope large-scale tommy guns to whack a Borg Cube (I'm talking mass-driver weapons or gauss-cannons which use magnetic field accelerator coils to propel objects of relatively large metallic mass with a very high density core-material such as uranium at targets at high velocities). Heck, if it works on drones and their adaptive shielding stuff, why would such a weapon not work on a Cube itself? (Now if it was constructed of neutronium

- but it isn't)

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"Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

The unfortunate Borg drones that went to the holodeck/holosuite had scanned Ethan Phillips and saw virtually no threat. The drones could have had their shields to only protect them from energy weapons, not projectile weapons. Starfleet only uses energy weapons, and the occational killing knife. When was the last time we saw a Starfleet officer with a gun in their hand ready to kill?

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Is this the feeling, I need to walk in
Tell me why I can't be there where you are
There's something missing in my heart

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Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Okay. Here's my take on it. The cube in FC was destroyed simply because the entire fleet focused their firepower on one spot. This was too much for the sheilding, so it collapsed, and they pummeled the hull. There wasn't already damage there.

As for fighting the Borg drones, I say each officer should have a phaser rifle and a TR-116. Start with the phaser, and when they adapt to it, use the TR-116. Once they adapt to that, go back to the phaser. IMHO, they can only set their sheilds to deflect energy weapons or projectiles, not both.

And I also had another theory. Perhaps the Borg cubes and their machinery are powered by the biological drones themselves, � la Matrix?

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The Psi Corps is your friend. Trust the Corps.

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

Masao: Why shoot something you're going to assimilate.. no use assimilating damaged goods, right??

And to defeat the Borg... The Virus Prog that Geordi and Data came out with... That's the ticket.

Confuse them so bad, they shut down, and they're history.

OR..

Become allies with 8472

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I feel more like I do now, then when I first got here!! :)

- Alshrim Dax
The Other Dax;

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Tommy guns? How about 50 Chain guns with 1000 rounds each? Like the ones in Aliens and Predator.

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I believe that eventually, the Borg would adapt to projectile weapons as well as they have to directed energy weapons. The reason Picard was so successful with the Tommy gun is because the Borg were not familiar with that technology. Most of the species they have assimilated have been advanced species who probably use energy weapons of some sort.

As far as destroying the ship, it seems like they were suggesting that the spot Picard targeted was simply a vulnerable spot in the hull. Some kind of blindspot or something. Data said there didn't appear to be anything important about that spot but it was vulnerable none the less.

I believe that Picard probably had residual Borg tech in his body. I don't believe the nano-probes were used in Picard's assimilation since the Queen wanted a different kind of drone. But even so, the Doctor on Voy had to come up with a whole new way of extracting the tech from the lovely 7 and for neutralizing nano-probes. If Crusher had gotten everything out, you'd think the Doctor would've known about that.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

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Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Does everyone ignore my posts or something?

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Chris's Home Page
The Psi Corps is your friend. Trust the Corps.

Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :

The reason I think he was consciously waiting for a particular moment during the battle was his few-second pause before saying "Fire". In those seconds we saw at least two ships get blasted, killing their crews!
I don't think Picard would add a dramatic pause at such high cost; ergo, he was waiting for a key re-routing of power or something on the cube.

P.S. No we're not ignoring you Fabrux.

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Gene: "I AM Star Trek"
Yvonne: "You can't sum yourself up in so small a package."
Gene: "SMALL?!!"

- Gene Roddenberry: The Last Conversation

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Good. I was beginning to get that impression

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Chris's Home Page
The Psi Corps is your friend. Trust the Corps.

Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :

A. Dax: Yes, that's a good point about not wanting to damage the prospective asimilee (?), but why do they have to be just walk up and grab? Why can't they immobilize at long range somehow, such as with phasers on stun, gases, or a longer range version of the neck buzzer thingee? Or how about using nonlethal weapons now being researched like spreading sticky stuff on the floor (like roach motels), spraying a hardening foam, and lights and sounds to induce seizures, confusion, and nausea? These things might also work against the borg.

Your point suggests a possible weakness in the Borg approach: If their main strategy is to walk up and grab you (rather than shoot you at long range), you should have a lot of opportunities to kill them or stop them before they reach you, assuming your attack is not deflected. I suppose this is something like resisting arrest by the police (of course the police will kill you if you resist enough).

The Borg shielding may be something like the personal shielding in the Dune books. The shields in Dune can stop energy weapons, but can be penetrated by knives entering at a certain angle and speed. Any Dune fans that can elaborate?

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When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

The Holtzmann effect deflects any object with a high enough kinetic energy. This translates into something like 3 cm per second, or so.

Sorry, Dune mode.

Anyway, why do the Borg walk up to you? Because they can. In the mind of the Borg, why waste the energy running after you? They'll get you eventually. Running is saved for species that are actually a threat.

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"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.

Posted by Dane Simri (Member # 272) on :

I think Sol's right on the mark here.

(I can't believe I'm agreeing with Sol! )

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Dane

"...and there was war in heaven..." The Bible, Revelation 12:7

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Also, consider this. By using a slow, methodical, juggernaut approach (they just keep coming and coming) the Borg may lose a few expendable drones, but they also get to use up an enemies reserves and get to sample every form of attack they are able to throw at the drones. Once they've adapted to the attack, it is no longer a threat to them from anyone and can't be used again.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.thespeakeasy.com/alanfore

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

Ever heard this one?

StarTrek "The Borg" - The Lost Episodes

Picard: "Mr. LaForge, have you had any success with your attempts at finding a weakness in the Borg? And Mr. Data, have you been able to access their command pathways?"

Geordi: "Yes, Captain. In fact, we found the answer by searching through our archives on late Twentieth-century computing technology." Geordi presses a key, and a logo appears on the computer screen.

Riker looks puzzled. "What the hell is 'Microsoft'?"

Data turns to answer. "Allow me to explain. We will send this program, for some reason called 'Windows', through the Borg command pathways. Once inside their root command unit, it will begin consuming system resources at an unstoppable rate."

Picard: "But the Borg have the ability to adapt. Won't they alter their processing systems to increase their storage capacity?"

Data: "Yes, Captain. But when 'Windows' detects this, it creates a new version of itself known as an 'upgrade'. The use of resources increases exponentially with each iteration. The Borg will not be able to adapt quickly enough. Eventually all of their processing ability will be taken over and none will be available for their normal operational functions."

Picard: "Excellent work. This is even better than that 'unsolvable geometric shape' idea."

15 Minutes Later...

Data: "Captain, we have successfully installed the 'Windows' in the Borg's command unit. As expected, it immediately consumed 85% of all available resources. However, we have not received any confirmation of the expected 'upgrade'."

Geordi: "Our scanners have picked up an increase in Borg storage and CPU capacity, but we still have no indication of an 'upgrade' to compensate for their increase."

Picard: "Data, scan the history banks again and determine if there is something we have missed."

Data: "Sir, I believe there is a reason for the failure in the 'upgrade'. Apparently the Borg have circumvented that part of the plan by not sending in their registration cards."

Riker: "Captain, we have no choice. Requesting permission to begin emergency escape sequence 3F ...."

Geordi, excited: "Wait, Captain! Their CPU capacity has suddenly dropped to 0% !"

Picard: "Data, what does your scanners show?"

Data, studying displays: "Apparently the Borg have found the internal 'Windows' module named 'Solitaire', and it has used up all available CPU capacity."

Picard: "Let's wait and see how long this 'Solitaire' can reduce their functionality."

Two Hours Pass...

Riker: "Geordi, what is the status of the Borg?"

Geordi: "As expected, the Borg are attempting to re-engineer to compensate for increased CPU and storage demands, but each time they successfully increase resources I have setup our closest deep space monitor beacon to transmit more 'Windows' modules from something called the 'Microsoft Fun-pack'.

Picard: "How much time will that buy us?"

Data: "Current Borg solution rates allow me to predicate an interest time span of 6 more hours."

Geordi: "Captain, another vessel has entered our sector."

Picard: "Identify."

Data: "It appears to have markings very similar to the 'Microsoft' logo..."

Over the speakers: "THIS IS ADMIRAL BILL GATES OF THE MICROSOFT FLAGSHIP MONOPOLY. WE HAVE POSITIVE CONFIRMATION OF UNREGISTERED SOFTWARE IN THIS SECTOR. SURRENDER ALL ASSETS AND WE CAN AVOID ANY TROUBLE. YOU HAVE 10 SECONDS TO COMPLY."

Data: "The alien ship has just opened its forward hatches and released thousands of humanoid-shaped objects."

Picard: "Magnify forward viewer on the alien craft!"

Riker: "My God, captain! Those are human beings floating straight toward the Borg ship - with no life support suits! How can they survive the tortures of deep space?!"

Data: "I don't believe that those are humans, sir. If you will look closer I believe you will see that they are carrying something recognized by twenty-first century man as doeskin leather briefcases, and wearing Armani suits."

Riker and Picard, together horrified: "Lawyers!!"

Geordi: "It can't be. All the Lawyers were rounded up and sent hurtling into the sun in 2017 during the Great Awakening."

Data: "True, but apparently some must have survived."

Riker: "They have surrounded the Borg ship and are covering it with all types of papers."

Data: "I believe that is known in ancient vernacular as 'red tape'. It often proves fatal."

Riker: "They're tearing the Borg to pieces!"

Picard: "Turn the monitors off, Data, I cant bear to watch. Even the Borg doesn't deserve such a gruesome death!"

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So small,
so innocent,
so young,
so delicately done,
grown up in your poison.

"Little Baby Swastikkka"
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Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

ROTFL!!!
I've read that little piece myself before, but it still gets me every time!

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Navigator-"Heading, Sir?"
Kirk-"Out there...somewhere...out thatta-way."--Star Trek: TMP

Posted by Alshrim Dax (Member # 258) on :

Sol: I agree with you. Masao: They're not strategists !! In their twisted form of "Pure Logic", Resistance is Futile !! Which means .. They think you can't stop them. YOu fire at them, they are unharmed.

Humans fight at long range to avoid getting hurt.. that's the whole premise of long distance warfare ... Well.. Imagine if we felt no pain, and had no fear to die; and one mother-of-an-ego that said that nothing can appose us. And on top of that, all we have to do to defeat the enemy is touch them on the neck !! And on top of that ... Their weapons are useless against you.. I wouldn't waste the energy either.. and you have to remember that the Borg (in the word of 7 of 9 herself) strive for perfection and ultimate efficiency. They rule out all irrelevencies (like running after you) and perform the task at hand. They've assimilate entire worlds in this fashion. I think they think... why fix it if it ain't broke!

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I feel more like I do now, then when I first got here!!

- Alshrim Dax
The Other Dax;

[This message has been edited by Alshrim Dax (edited January 19, 2000).]

Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

Anyone remember TBofBW where Dr. Crusher suggests using a destructive breed of Naanites to cripple the Borg?

What do you think?

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

It was a good idea, but I think that Borg nanotechnology would probably prove more then a match for that of the Federation.

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"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.

Posted by Marko Latin on :

why don't the borg integrate the assimilation tubules in the interrior of their ships: walls,corridors...or make some kind of assimilation robots (entirely robotic, why waste drones?)...that way anyone who boards a cube,sphere,whatever would be almost instantly assimilated without any losses in the collective...

I'm not on their side...just wondering...

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Dream on...in the end...dreams are everything...

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I don't think that the Borg think in terms of wasting drones. They're just cells, after all, to be used as necessary.

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"20th Century, go to sleep."
--
R.E.M.