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Posted by Saboc on :

Does anyone know how old captain Scott, not scotty the engineer, was when she was promoted to captain? I know that she is THE youngest officer to ever make captain, but I don't know when that was.
Please don't laugh at me but I have just noticed that Picard was only 28 when he got promoted to captain and offered the Stargazer

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

They didn't say.

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Was it even specified if Scott was the youngest to receive four pips in her collar, or if she was the youngest to be appointed as the captain of a starship?

Perhaps she became the captain of a starship while holding a rank of Ensign in her youth, and got the promotion to Captain rank later on? In any case, one would think she became captain (in either sense) at 21 at the earliest, since the Academy is supposed to last 4 years (or more) for command-liners and entry age is 17 (for humans at least, and Scott seemed to be one) - and even Picard, who got the four pips at 28, graduated at Ensign rank, no higher (even if Kirk may have graduated a Lieutenant).

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I wonder if Tryla Scott is the child of Scotty and Uhura!?! Did they ever "go all the way"?? There were some feelings evident in "The Final Frontier" !?!

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

This brings up the problems with Picards past again. I think he was promoted directly from Lt. to Capt. of the Stargazer. Apparently, though, he was serving as the first officer in additon to whatever else he was doing aboard the Stargazer. Riker commented once that Picard had been a first officer himself. It's possible that there were personel shortages at that time and that's why Picard advanced so quickly.

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Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :

I'd like to dispute that, Aban. What likely happened was when the captain of the Stargazer was killed and Picard took command, they probably put him under consideration for command rather than promote him directly. He probably got promoted to Lt. Cmdr after that incident, and would probably be promoted to Captain a year later........

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

It's been awhile since I've seen "Tapestry", but I could've sworn Q said that he'd been given the command of the Stargazer for saving the ship after the captain was killed.

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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :

AndrewR: Great Idea! I'd like to think that Scotty and Uhura were "doing the nasty" someplace on the old Enterprise (phaser control room or battle bridge?). Kirk shouldn't have gotten all the action. Unfortunately, Capt. Scott's a bit too young to be their daughter. Maybe a granddaughter.

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Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

I remember hearing Picard was still a Lt. when he commanded the Stargazer. It's a small ship and considering the events he was given command after the incident, but not promoted in rank.

Scott was the youngest Capt.

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Posted by Saboc on :

Does anyone know how old Kirk was, when he got promoted to captain?
Picard was 28. Sulu was in his late 30's. Sisko was in his mid 30's. Janeway, I would guess in her early 30's.

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Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

I think there is a lot of confusion here and some bad information.

Where do the ages of Kirk, Picard, and Sulu come from?

Remember Riker was the real driven guy and he wanted to make Capt. by 35!! I can guess from that that 28 for Picard as Capt. rank is not a canon fact. If I am correct the only things we know for that Scott was stated as the fastest officer to reach Capt. and that Riker was driven to make Capt. by 35.

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We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the
obvious is the first duty of intelligent men."
George Orwell

Posted by Saboc on :

I got their ages from various episodes and the ST Enceclopedia(sp. And besides, just because Riker wants to make to captain at age 35, it does not mean anything. We shouldn't use the egocentric Riker as a standard for anything. And besides, he was offered a promotion before he was 35, once or twice, dont' remember.

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Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Sulu was only in his late 30s when he got Captaincy of the Excelsior? Is this between STV and VI, or going by the idea that he actually got captaincy just before ST II but was demoted after the whole stealing teh Enterprise thing?

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

According to the encyclopedia, Sulu got command of the Excelsior in 2290, which would make him 53 at the time. I don't think he was promoted to captain much before that.

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Riker was apparently referring to the normal path to captaincy when speaking of the age of 35 as his goal. He couldn't count on having his captain killed in a crisis that would make Riker the replacement. And he was speaking *TO* his captain at the time, so voicing out the desire for such an event would have been rather nasty...

Then again, Paul Rice studied with Riker and was a captain by rank and position in 2364. If he was the same age as Riker (entered Academy at 18), wouldn't he be just 29 then? Riker turned down the command of the ship that eventually went to Rice - so he seemed to abanadon a chance at captaincy far before 35.

Perhaps Riker was speaking of getting to be the captain of a tall ship like the Enterprise, and not a leaking scow like the light cruiser Drake?

And perhaps Rice became captain of the small Drake at the rank of Lt.Cmrd, and only made Captain at 29 because of some unexpected heroics?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Well, in the episode Riker mentioned that Rice was exceptionally talented...rewriting multiple-choice answers on exams and so on.

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I believe Captain Tryla Scott is not reffered to as the youngest PERSON to become Captain ... but as the youngest WOMAN to become Captain.

I'm not sure, it HAS been awhile since I've seen "Conspiracy"

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

From the Encyclopedia-2:

Scott, Tryla. (Ursaline Bryant). Starfleet officer who earned the command of a starship at a younger age than any previous captain. Scott was something of a legend in her own time, but she was taken over in 2364 by the extragalactic intelligence that attempted to infiltrate Starfleet Command that year. ("Conspiracy" [TNG]).

Unfortunately, I don't know if this accurately reflects the episode. I thought they only mentioned her captaincy (as in rank), not her command of a ship. If we take the enecyclopedia at face value, she could have been given command while she was any rank. But, I think the episode suggested that she was the youngest person to get the rank of captain. But, then, maybe it wasn't specified either way...

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I've got this one on tape, so I'll check. Going by memory, though, I'm pretty sure the episode only stated that she was the "youngest captain", without any explicit reference to a) her sex being a factor or b) whether this was the rank or the position of captain.

It would appear that whenever somebody becomes a captain of a starship, Starfleet feels obliged to promote him or her to Captain rank either immediately or at least very soon afterwards. For some reason, non-Captain captains are a very rare sight, early DS9 notwithstanding. Perhaps there is an obligatory captaincy course required for long-term ship command, a course that near-automatically also results in promotion to Captain rank?

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Teelie (Member # 280) on :

I always assumed Captains of Star Fleet ships were literally Captains- by rank.
It's been years since I saw the ep either.

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I think there is a definite difference between the rank "Captain" and the post "Captain" ...

i.e., if Cmdr. Jones is given command of the USS SMITH, his crew will refer to him as "Captain Jones", not "Commander Jones," even though his rank is indeed Commander.

Does anyone have "Conspiracy" on tape? I'd imagine you'd be able to see Scott's rank pips. I also interpreted the episode to mean that she was the youngest (woman?) to reach the RANK (not the post) of Captain. But, I can't remember if there is a reference or not to her being the youngest woman ... anyone got this episode on tape????

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Timo just said two posts above yours that he has it on tape and will check...

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Yeah, I saw that, I just forgot it when I posted my reply.

This is what happens when I don't have beer for breakfast, sheeeesh

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Okay, so the reference goes like this: in the abandoned mines of Dytallix B, Walker Keel (four pips) interrogates Picard for a while, then introduces Captain Rixx (four pips) and asks if Picard knows the third person. Picard does know captain Scott (again four pips) and says "[they] say[-id] you made captain faster than anybody in Starfleet, present company included". Picard then asks if Scott is as good as her reputation. She says she is.

This is the full extent of dialogue on the subject of captain Scott, I'm afraid. The later meeting at SF HQ reveals nothing new. While Scott very clearly is a Captain both by rank and by position at the time she meets with Picard, nothing definite is revealed about her age at that time, or at the time of her rise to captain position or Captain rank. We do not even know if the position came before or after the rank.

It is also unclear whether captain Scott survives the episode. She goes down in the fight, and the parasite leaves her body - but the body is seemingly intact, and Admiral Quinn did survive the eviction of the parasite with proper medical care. By the looks of the actress, Scott could have been in her mid-twenties or early forties or anything between, and probably was in good physical health to survive the ordeal.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by spyone on :

fyi:
Kirk was 31 when he became Captain of the Enterprise.
Scotty is 11 years older than Kirk.
Kirk retired at 60.
Riker was offered a Captaincy at 29, but turned it down to become First Officer of USS Enterprise.
Sulu was 53 when he became Captain of USS Excelsior.
Picard was 28 when he assumed command of USS Stargazer, though his rank at this time is unclear.
Picard was 59 when he assumed command of USS Enterprise.
Ben Sisko is 99 years younger than Kirk.
Harry Kim was in Wesley Crusher's Academy class.
Julain Bashir was a student at Starfleet Medical when Beverly Crusher taught there.
Ben Sisko took command of DS9 at age 36.
Miles O'Brien is at least 2 years older than Ben Sisko.

I have more if you care, like that Geordi, Riker, and Chakotay all graduated together.

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Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

I'd have thought that O'Brien is way more than two years older than Sisko...

Harry was in Wesley's class? Interesting... But which one? Welsey repeated a year.

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Posted by spyone on :

Well, notice I said "at least".

Harry and Wesley would have graduated together if Wesley had not dropped out. so..... since Harry was first in his class, and wesley was a prodigy, if Wesley had stayed he would have been first, probably. so, if only he hadn't dropped out of the academy, Wesley Crusher would have been aboard Voyager!

Apparently, Janeway is younger than Cakotay by a year or two. Sadly, the only concrete evidence of Janeway's age is a mention of not having played tennis in high school and a statement of how many years ago that was. (15?) Based on this, we can determine an exact year when Janeway was "in highschool", but cannot be sure whether this marked her freshman year, her senior year, or some year in between. If she was a freshman, then she entered the academy the year after Chakotay graduated. I find this intolerable, because this would put her first command at just 2 years past graduation.

I've been told that Jeri Taylor's novels shed some light on this, by fixing admiral Janeway's death in refernece to his Daughter's time at the Academy. I've never read the books, but at the extremes she either entered or graduated from the Academy the year he died.

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Not to throw gas on the fire, or anything, but Starfleet Academy's age admittance is "sixteen" according to Coming of Age. So, given a four-year Academy, once could presumeably become an ensign by twenty.

Going by Riker's "captain at thirty-five", that seems to indicate it's very possible to become a Captain after fifteen years in service.

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

However, Harry Kim graduated from the Academy when he was twenty-two. So he either entered when he was eighteen, or he entered at sixteen and stayed for six years instead of the usual four. Maybe engineering school is a six years curriculum?

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Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

FWIW: Janeway's age has been incredibly inconsistent... I believe there's an entire webpage dedicated to figuring it out...

Academy entrance age has been shown to be pretty flexible, with entry at 17 or 18 pretty normal for humans.

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

Wasn't Wesley 15 during "Coming of Age"?

Mark

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Posted by Daniel (Member # 453) on :

Also, remember we've seen people graduate from the Academy as lieutenants. Saavik and Kirk were both lieutenants when they graduated, I believe. So this could also shorten the time to receiving captaincy.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Wesley was fifteen, and some of the other testees inquire about his age -- apparently, he's too young to attend Starfleet Academy, but he'll meet the age requirements because his 16th birthday is only a few months away.

Also, Kim could've failed his first few entrance exams, and been admitted late. Or chosen not to try as soon as he could have.

I don't think we know for sure that Kirk was a lieutenant when he graduated. Frankly, neither do we know that Saavik is actually graduating from SA. I find it more reasonable to assume that Saavik graduated from the Academy, served a tour on a ship, and had earned lieutenant's rank while completing Command School -- a more advanced series of courses for officers thought to be on the command track.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

It's possible that she took aditional schooling, but I don't think officers go to command school until they're up for command of a ship.

Man, this is an old thread...

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I disagree. Since the First, Second, or even Third or Fourth officers can conceivably be placed in the position of command of a starship at any time, they would need the teachings of command school. I would imagine Command School is required for any officer who wishes to be in the Chain of Command on a starship. For example, on the Enterprise-D, Riker, Data, Yar, LaForge, and Worf must've taken the Command School course ...

Riker's pretty obvious. He's the XO, and he'd already been offered his own command prior to EaF.

Data's obvious too. The Enterprise is presumeable his second assignment as second officer (he identifies himself as being a Lt. Commander to Lore for 10 years prior to the episode DataLore, so it's reasonable to assume he was 2nd officer of his assignment before), so he would need to have completed Command School as well. If anything were to happen to Picard or Riker, he'd be the new Executive Officer.

Yar was the Third Officer while she was alive. Likewise, she would need to have completed the Command School to be in that position.

We saw both Worf and LaForge take command of the ship (Worf of the saucer in EaF, LaForge of the whole ship and then the stardrive in Arsenal of Freedom), so they must also have taken the Command Course. From Arsenal of Freedom, we can see that LaForge was the Fourth Officer and Worf the Fifth Officer (just by way that Picard assigned LaForge to command, not Worf).

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

The reference I remember hearing to Command school in Star Trek, is Janeway's mention of it early on in the series ("Sometimes you just have to punch it"). They way she said it, it made me think that it was more for someone who is expected to be taking command of a starship soon. I have no doubt that Riker has taken this course, though.