Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Blackholes

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Posted by David Sands (Member # 132) on :

It's been so long since I've had the time to watch Trek and keep up with it these past two years of school. Would someone care to let me know the answer I thought up at work today while talking physics with some fellow employees? Have there been any instances of balckholes being given more than mere passing-mention in Trek? Grnated, there's not but so much you can make them do for a plotline, but I was wondering if they've ever played any role in any episodes. Answers of any kind would be appreciated! Thanks!

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

The only instance I can think of is only a maybe. The second ep of Voyager's first season dealt with the ship getting caught in a quantum singularity, which I think is the same thing as a black hole. It was anything but black though.

I believe it was theorized in ST:TMP that V'ger fell into a black hole. And the Romulans use a contained black hole as a power source.

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Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

"Tomorrow Is Yesterday." The Enterprise finds herself in orbit of Earth ca. 1968 after having an encounter with an uncharted "black star" & being slung back in time & across space.

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Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :

There's an interesting portrayal of a black hole in the book "Federation" as well...

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Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

In the Dominion War books, the Dominion puts POWs on freighters to mine a special mineral from black holes.

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

To...what? "Attention, prisoners. You have recieved your turnips. Begin harvesting blood!"

Anyway, black holes are a semi-common feature. As mentioned, we've got TOS's "black star", which was a pretty good guess, considering it predates the theoretical objects final name of black hole by a bit.

Romulan vessels are powered by micro-black holes, as postulated by Stephen Hawking. (Well, maybe not exactly as postulated, but that's where the general idea comes from.)

One thing that isn't seen too often is a plain old ordinary black hole. Voyager attempted to, but got the physics of the thing so horribly wrong that it's best not to think about it.

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Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Well, I don't believe they ever actually used the term "black hole" anywhere in Paralax. Just "type four quantum singularity". Would a singularity NESECARILY have to be at the bottom of a black hole? All it really is is a place where the laws of physics no longer apply...

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Um...wahey?

Kip Thorne describes a singularity as "a region of spacetime where spacetime curvature becomes so great that the general relativistic laws break down and the laws of quantum gravity take over".

A black hole is merely the cloak a singularity wears over its shoulders.

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

I always thought wormholes *where* black holes, but I'm probably wrong

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Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Sol: In the books, the Dominion was constructing a verteron collider to create an artificial wormhole to the Gamma Quadrant. The mouth of the collider needed to be made out of corzanium, an ultra-light, ultra-strong element found only in black holes. The prisoners had to quantum-step the stuff out of the black holes. And it was rather dangerous work so that's why the POWs were doing it.

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[This message has been edited by Fabrux (edited July 18, 2000).]

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

An element found only in black holes? Oy... That's about as believeable as "Spock's Brain"...

A wormhole isn't quite a black hole. A balck hole is a singularity where things go in and don't come back out. A wormhole is a singularity where things go in and come back out somewhere else. But they are both quantum singularities.

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Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :

Was there a blackhole mentioned in one of the animated series episodes? I think it was the one with Captain Robert April?

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Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :

...in a way, you could think of a black hole as a mass of neutrons, since it has no protons at all, you could consider it a new element...

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Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Ah yes... That one. When the Enterprise went through the black hole, everything was backwards. Space was white and everything. The ships went backwards, old people were babies, etc. Turns out, this was just an alternate reality created by the Wanderers Who Play (IIRC).

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Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

The Counter-Clock Incident.

*Waves a Dogbertlike paw*
Bah.

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

A neutron star can be described, and is, a mass of neutrons, hence the word neutronium.

A black hole collapses matter far beyond neutrons, quarks, gluons, or any other fundamental particle. What you get is scary scary quantum gooey stuff.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Erm... Different elements are determined by the number of protons. If you haven't got any protons, you haven't got an element. You just have... stuff. :-)

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Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :

Go "stuff"

Posted by Fructose (Member # 309) on :

Yeah, that "corzanium" stuff is bull. All the elements are on the periodic table. And any new ones will be heavier and denser. And if you change the neutrons around, you'll just have isotpoes of the same element. Also, neutronium isn't real. Neutrons can't exist alone for that long. I think neutronium is just supposed to be some futuristic super dense material.

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Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

They don't have much of a decision in neutronium. It's created by compression that's so great, the protons & electrons have no choice but to come into contact, cancel each other out, & turn into neutrons. And after that, it's so dense that the neutorns are actually touching each other.

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Posted by TerraZ on :

Hey, we've actually SEEN a micro-black hole in the second episode with the Hirogens I think. They destroyed the alien com. array by releasing the quantum singularity powering it (I think they even specifically mentionned "black hole"). What we got was a small black hole surrounded by a white vortex. Quite far from what a real black hole would look like (it would distort light around it).

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