Can anyone tell me the meaning of the old Vulcan proverb "Only Nixon could have gone to China."?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
ref. American history, 1972. Look it up.
------------------ "Do you know how much YOU'RE worth??.....2.5 million Woolongs. THAT'S your bounty. I SAID you were small fry..." --Spike Spiegel
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
As to why it'd be a Vulcan proverb when it relates to American history must be a joke the writer thought was funny.
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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I wonder... When Spock said once that one of his ancestors once said "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth", did he mean that some Vulcan said that, or that he's related to Arthur C. Doyle?
------------------ "Me, Grimlock, not 'nice dino'! Me, Grimlock, bash brains!" -Grimlock, Transformers: The Movie
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
But where is the connection to the Klingons?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Nixon opened up relations between the US and China whereas Kirk and company were going to open up relations between the Federation and the Klingons.
------------------ Teddy Roosevelt: "Speak softly and carry a big stick." Yosemite Sam: "Well, I speak loudly and I carry a bigger stick...and I use it too!"
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
I assume that Nixon was a great opponent of Communism (like Kirk hates the Klingons), because this would explain the "Only Nixon". Am I right?
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Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
You're probably correct. Sometimes the most vocal opponent is the first olive branch, as Kirk is, here.
I will point out however that "Only Nixon can go to China" is NOT the actual proverb. It's only a translation made by Spock to cast relevance to Earth history. Otherwise the proverb isn't that old anyway. This is probably a proverb from very ancient Vulcan philosophy.
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Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
TSN: He said that to Valaris (sp.?) correct? By "ancestors" he probably meant that he is half-human.
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Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
*ding*
Never thought of that.
------------------ "My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht." Psychiatrist: "Again."
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I suppose the idea that Spock has a very wry sense of humor is right out?
Very intersting. Like, if an organization starts a very important experiment or project, they put the one least willing to do it in charge, so that he won't be blinded by hopes, enthusiasm or optimism, but instead falls back on his professionalism. And most important, he won't hesitate to abort or take measures should anything go wrong.
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�on Flux, "Thanatophobia"
[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited August 13, 2000).]
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
I suspect that the "Nixon" quote may have originated with Henry Kissenger, who was Nixon's secretary of state. As pointed out earlier, Nixon was a staunch anticommunist and veteran communist hunter from the 1950s. As a result he would not have been accussed of being "soft on communism" if he went to China. In contrast, someone who had a history of being more open to friendly relations with the Soviets and the Chinese or advocated pulling out of the war in Vietnam, such as George McGovern, would have been accussed of groveling to the Chinese.
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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Of course, you can't always use the person the least in favor. I mean, you wouldn't send Joe McCarthy to open relations w/ the Chinese... :-)
------------------ "Me, Grimlock, not 'nice dino'! Me, Grimlock, bash brains!" -Grimlock, Transformers: The Movie
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Actually, Tim, Nixon would come right after McCarthy as the most unlikely. He was Joe Mac's right-hand-man, wasn't he?
------------------ "...I was just up in Canada, Toronto actually. You know, they really hate you guys [Americans] up there? The funny thing is, they think you hate them back, when in fact, you just couldn't be bothered to care. Now in Ireland, it's a different story. At least we had the common decency to wait until the English invaded before we started hating them. I guess the Canadians are hating you in advance..." -Irish Comic Ed Byrne on Canada-US relations
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
McCarthy's right hand man was a fellow named Roy Cohn. Nixon main red-hunting claim to fame was the Alger Hiss case, which involved microfilm hidden in pumpkins by State Department employees (or something like that).
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Right. I thought I wasn't sleeping through that History class.
------------------ "...I was just up in Canada, Toronto actually. You know, they really hate you guys [Americans] up there? The funny thing is, they think you hate them back, when in fact, you just couldn't be bothered to care. Now in Ireland, it's a different story. At least we had the common decency to wait until the English invaded before we started hating them. I guess the Canadians are hating you in advance..." -Irish Comic Ed Byrne on Canada-US relations
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
I think that the "ancestor" Spock was referring to is supposed to be none other than that master of logic, Sherlock Holmes. I believe this lineage is mentioned in one of the non-canon Trek books, Amanda supposedly being descended from him.
------------------ "Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I think, considering that the Trek timeline and the real-life timeline are supposed to be conincidental up until around the '60s, assuming Sherlock Holmes to be a non-fictional character in the Trek universe is a bad idea. It makes a lot more sense to say Spock is related to Doyle, since he's the one who actually wrote that line.
------------------ "Me, Grimlock, not 'nice dino'! Me, Grimlock, bash brains!" -Grimlock, Transformers: The Movie
Posted by SCSImperium (Member # 397) on :
Or, maybe the writers could stay more towards Nimoy's herritage and have his character related to a Ukranian Titoist. And Titoist is a word I invented for the whole group of politicians who resisted the Warsaw pact and Russian soveriegnty in Eastern Europe ...
But then again, that isn't very Spock. Hmmm ..
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Posted by spyone on :
Nixon was rabidly anti-communist. For anyone else to open diplomatic relations with China would have made them look weak, or at least soft on communism. This created a popular saying in America, "Only Nixon could go to China". Kirk was rabidly anti-klingon. No one could accuse him of being a closet-Klingon (well, they do have similar personaliy types...) or a pro-Klingon agitator. Anyone else holding out the olive branch would be accused of colluding with the enemy, but KIRK wouldn't do that. For similar reasons, I have heard it suggested that the first female (or black, for that matter) Vice President will have to be a Republican. The Democrats are traditionally painted as liberal, and the Republicans as conservative, and programs that benefit women (or blacks) are traditionally seen as fitting a liberal agenda. Basicly, if a woman runs as a Democrat, most Republicans will vote against her. But if she runs as a Republican, many Democrats will vote for her. People are resistant to change, and quick to villify proponents of change. The best way to avoid being smeared as one of "them" is to be overwhelmingly one of "us". Pick any two groups that have been traditionally at odds, the more vehemently the better. Two examples that leap to mind are the Arabs and Isrealis or the Nation of Islam and White Supremicists. Anyone from one camp who shows empathy for the other will be (and has been) painted not as "moderate" but as an outsider, not "truly" one of "us". To open talks, you need to send someone who's allegience is unimpeachable.
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Posted by Starbuck (Member # 153) on :
McCarthy was opposed to communism? Funny... my old English teacher said he was in charge of witch-hunts.
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