Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Losses in the War

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Posted by warbird5 on :

What do think the losses for all the major powers in the war including ships and casualties?

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

A lot.

Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

I'd have to disagree TSN, I think that they lost quite alot.....

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EOH

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

A hell of a lot.

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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Allied forces lost about 30 million (mostly due to the USSR); Axis losses were a bit lower, at around 10 million. I was having a hard time finding ship stats, but the US lost around 1000 warships, if that helps.

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Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Is that just soldiers, or does it include civilian casualties? Does it also include people who didn't die as a direct result of the war, as in the halocaust?

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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

It's supposed to include civilians, but I'm not sure about the holocaust. Try a Web search...there's plenty of info out there.

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

"Halocaust", eh? Some sort of burnt nimbus...?

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Posted by warbird5 on :

I was refering to the Dominion War. i was looking for numerical estimates for ships and casualties.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Now, at this point, someone will pull some numbers out of their deficating tunnel, saying "The Federaton lost approx 30,000 ships, mainly 23rd century classes, like the venturific-class."

And the reason why I hate this, is because the writers have always purposefully kept it vague as to how many ships Starfleet actually has. And without that information, an accurate guess is probably impossible to predict. A percentage might be possible, so I'm going with close to 50% of their fleet has been destroyed or heavily damaged (ie, requiring extensive repairs)

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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Causalty rates depend on what you count as a causalty.

According to "Dirty Little Secrets of World War II", as many as 78 million people were killed as a result of the war, and the authors suspect that the real number might be as high as 100 million.

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

It also helps to define a time frame for World War II.

Some people define it as beginning with Japanese hostilities in Eastern Asia in 1931, and ending in 1945 with Japan's surrender ...

Or Poland, 1938 to Japan, 1945 ...

Or Dec. 7th, 1941 - 1945 ...

One guy even grouped WWI and II together ... not a bad idea, as WWI led directly to II, but not the most effective, either.

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Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Or you could include that Japanese squad that stayed hidden on some Pacific island for a few decades AFTER the war ended...

My questions for warbird5:

a) What difference does it make to ANYTHING, real or Trek?

b) How the heck do you expect US to know? There is absolutely NO basis for any sort of estimate, so as Liam said, anything anyone tells you, they've pulled out of their "deficating tunnel." You could say, "They lost every ship they had, except the ones that we KNOW survived." You could also say, "The Federation has THOUSANDS of ships left. They only lost the ones we KNOW were destroyed." Either statement is equally justifiable.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I don't think the Jap hold-outs would be considered, as a treaty was signed ... although, I wouldn't be surprised to see new theories which extend WWII through the Cold War until the collapse of the USSR ...

It's hard to guesstimate losses because:

a) We didn't see much of the War. We don't know how battles raged on other fronts, and we don't know what other non-aligned races (minor ones, no doubt) might have allied themselves with the Dominion against the AQ ... (and vice versa)

b) We don't know the populations or military strengths of any of the AQ powers. I mean, have you seen the threads in here on Starfleet's fleet size or the existance of a Marine Corps? That can't be decided on, much less anything else in regards to the other powers!

I'd say its a safe bet to say that several billion people died.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Liam: I think you're wrong. We all knew what Warbird was talking about to start w/, and yet, no-one gave a straight answer then, either. :-)

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

I am never wrong.

And I'm sorry Jeff, but if you ever say "guestimate" again, I will beat the living crap out of you, and then I will burn your barely alive body as a firey warning to other people who use crap words.

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Er ... bad childhood memories associated with "that" word, Liam?

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Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

Would 'interpolate' perhaps be more acceptable??

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EOH

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

quote:
How the heck do you expect US to know?

Just because we don't know the answer doesn't mean we have to chastize him for asking the question.

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Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

In that case I demand a recount....

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Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

Oh, no, we're not going through THAT again!

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Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :

aaawwwwwww, I'll see you in court..... LOL

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[This message has been edited by Ritten (edited December 22, 2000).]

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

No, it's just a stupid crappy evil word. If you want a non-crap alternative, here's a crazy idea. Use "guess". Or "estimate". But don't make up stupid words that are stupid and are used by stupid people for stupid reasons, or I will kick your stupid arse all the way to stupidsville.

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I'm sorry Liam, but if you ever say "stupidsville" again, I will beat the living crap out of you, and then I will burn your barely alive body as a firey warning to other people who use crap words.

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Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Ah, but I was using "stupidsville" in an ironic way to highligh the stupidness of "guesstimate".

My British wit prevails!

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