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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

God, I forgot how DIFFERENT TNG's premiere season was! Besides the cosmetic changes among the crew -- LaForge at Conn instead of Engineering, Lt. Yar alive, and Worf as a "bridge officer" not Security Chief (not to mention Riker sans beard) ...

I forgot how almost every episode, the Enterprise sends an away team to a planet or starship. Usually consisting of Riker, Data, and Yar, with LaForge or Worf sometimes accompanying them.

I forgot how CORNY it was! The main theme playing as the Enterprise warps off whichever way. Etc., etc.

The larger sense of "family", which would be missing in later eps -- for example, Riker hurrying two little children out of the Observation Lounge where they are playing ("The Last Outpost"), and the first impressions of the Ferengi, from the same ep.

The Anticans and the Selay -- god, those two races were fun. Looks like O'Brien was a security officer at one point -- during "Lonely Among Us" he got caught up between members of the two races.

The First Season was argueably the closest to TOS that TNG would ever come -- of course, it was trying hard to keep in TOS's shadow at this point, especially with eps like "Naked Now" (a blatant rip-off of a TOS episode), and "The Last Outpost" which had the crew caught in a very TOSy situation (unknown power drain, crew about to die.)

And, of course, it had it's good points too.
"Heart of Glory", for one. Who can forget this exchange:

"But for all you say, where are the words, 'honor, duty, loyalty', without which a warrior is nothing!"

"I do not care WHAT you look like! You are NO Klingon!"

"Perhaps not." ::zzaap!::

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Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

And don't forget the nifty Engineering elevator in the pilot, or the TNG skirt uniforms, wich looked just ridiculous!

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

That elevator was seen in quite a few TNG eps ...

Those skirt uniforms looked especially ridiculous when men were wearing 'em.

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

During the first season of TNG, the writers seemed to have the "let's have our crew beam down to a hostile planet-of-the-week and meet aliens that noboby cares about and who we'll never see again" syndrome that was prevalent in TOS. I believe that no matter what people were saying about how the show was not trying to be a carbon-copy of the original, at this early stage no one really kmew the direction the show should take, so they resorted to the TOS "tried and true" method.

It was only in the third & fourth seasons that the writers focused more on the character development instead of the planet of the week shtick (as they rightly should - why would anyone care about a television show if they didn't care about the characters?)

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Homer: "Maybe five dollars will refresh my memory."
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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I'd like to see the Anticans and Selay again, though ...

Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :

It is amazing how much that show changed during its run, DS9 underwent a similar drastic change, too. Only VOY is still pretty much the same now as it was back in '95, unlike the other series (which all featured a turning point - TNG had Yesterday's Enterprise, and DS9 The Jem'Hadar ) it has remained quite static.

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"Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"

Posted by Teelie (Member # 280) on :

I think around season 3 was when Roddenberry died or lost control over TNG, right? That'd explain it's taking the less fleeting route.

Posted by Psi'a Meese on :

Purrrrr....

It is clear that TPTB as well as fans of both past/present were not comfortable with the gray area's suggesting the ship is not completely military.
I for one missed the directness of family and clothing/uniform choices introduced in Season One. Rank and standard uniforms on the bridge represent 'structure'. But this needn't have become the case throughout the series.

Of course we all know that some women needn't be seen wearing skirts. But some men look good in them.

[This message has been edited by Psi'a Meese (edited March 04, 2001).]

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

Roddenberry was essentially little more than a creative consultant by the end of season 2, AFAIK. He didn't die till season 4, though...

Interestingly enough, despite a commendable job done in cosmetically changing back to season 1 TNG for AGT... it's interesting to note how the atmosphere was still very season sevenish. I think the drasticness of the differences from TNG's start to finish were probably not as big as we make them out to be, but were clearly accentuated by the cast and writers getting into a groove with the characters and plots.

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Posted by The Talented Mr. Gurgeh (Member # 318) on :

Hey, you forgot to mention the "EXTREME CLOSEUP!!" tendency TNG had in the first season.

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Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Well, one major difference between the sequences in AGT and EaF is that camera tech had evolved, so the sequences in AGT looked a whole lot better than EaF...

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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :

After seeing that episode where Tasha fights the wife of the African chief, I actually stopped watching TNG for about a year and a half. What an awful episode!! Even "Spock's Brain" was better. I also couldn't stand Troi's overemoting and that Wesley kid. There are still quite a few episodes from the first and second years that I've never seen.

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Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

You know, the kids in the observation lounge during The Last Outpost never made any sense to me. How'd they get there? If a kid walks into a turbolift and says "Battle bridge", would it just take them there?

And also, since it seems the only way to get to the observation lounge is through the bridge, how come Worf or yar didn't notice them walking past?

Actually, the Last Outpost is pretty horrible from start to finish. And very inconsistent even with other season 1 episodes.

The lounge/corridor area (the part that had the big comfy sofas) also dissapeared. Probably because it really did make the Enterprise look like a hotel.

And to be fair, the Naked Now is actually a really entertaining episode. It's fluffy, inconsequental fun, that a/ proves that the original Enterprise was Constitution class 9even if they showed the wrong pic), and b/ that Riker can hold his drink.

Troi's over emoting was pretty awful in season 1 though (although not as bad as the pilot. my god, if she'd done the "Captain...there's...great...pain!" every episode, we'd never have gotten anything done), as was Wesley, who was much more likeable by season 3, and actually had a good sending off in season 4.

The horrible synth music was, well, horrible too. There's one excruciating part in Encounter at Farpoint just before Picard orders saucer seperation where, at a dramatic part, they play a little cheesy synth trumpet version of the main theme. I burst out laughing everytime I hear it.

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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

The observation lounge has a corridor leading to a ramp down to deck two, no? At least, that's the party line now. I suppose the layout might have been different then. It's been awhile since I've seen any TNG, much less the first season.

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Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :

The conference lounge is about a half-level down from the main bridge itself, and the portside doors open onto the rest of deck one proper. Only the starboard doors lead directly onto the bridge.

--Jonah

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--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Of course, in Season One, there was an actually corridor running sideways away from the corridor: or in other words, into space. Bad idea, that. But yes, there is access to the Lounge from other parts of the ship.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

How I want to sum up the first seasons of the later three Trek shows.

TNG - yeah - it was CRAP compared to the rest of its run.

DS9 - it was a GOOD season - go back and watch it - I actually have a fondness for season 1. "Battle Lines"; "Emissary"; "A Man Alone"; "Progress"; "The Forsaken"; "In The Hands of the Prophets"; "Vortex" and "Captive Pursuit" oh and you can NOT forget "Duet".

Voyager - well Voyager's season 1 was BETTER than (as a whole) Voyager season 2 and 3 and probably 6... It has some great episodes for such early on in a series. Its a pity that by midway season 2 - they had forgotten that they can experiment with the show and have new ideas - and began to repeat themselves and rarely took any risks.

But look at some of the fantastic season 1 Voyager episodes: "Caretaker" "Time and Again" "Eye of the Needle" "Prime Factors" "Jetrel" "Projections" "Heroes and Demons" "State of Flux" and the WONDERFUL yet creepy "Faces"

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Duet is, without a doubt, the best episode of "Star Trek" I have ever seen. To go from loathing Maritza to feeling an affection for someone willing to die in order to force Cardassia to take responsibility for what it did ... what a fantastic episode! I'm not even a big "Kira" fan (and this was certainly a Kira episode), but ... wow! I loved it!

The First Season of TNG was certainly uneven, but it had it's fair share of gems ... Conspiracy, Arsenal of Freedom, Heart of Glory, 10110101, The Battle, The Big Goodbye, Datalore ... I certainly enjoyed the first season more than the AWFUL second season. I think the only good eps to come out of that were Peak Performance and Measure of a Man.

I mean, who can forget Worf's exchange with Korris? "Yet for all you say, where are the words, 'honor', 'duty', 'loyalty'? Without which a warrior is NOTHING!"

"I do not care WHAT you look like! They have sapped the fire from your heart! You are NO Klingon!"

"Perhaps not." ::ZAP!::

::Korris proceeds to fall three floors to the deck of Engineering::

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 05, 2001).]

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Has anyone noticed that almost all of the first season eps of TNG (at least the first 7 or 8 IIRC) have a token "Damn" thrown in there. It's usually Picard saying it. It's like, "We can get away with this language now, so let's do it!"

It's kind of irritating once you catch on to it.

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Posted by The Talented Mr. Gurgeh (Member # 318) on :

One of my favourite TNG episodes had to be Darmok, "Darmok and Jalaard, at Tenagra, When the walls fell...".

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

Re: The obs deck "Corridor"... I was always under the impression that there were several Obs lounges scattrered around the ship, and this was one of them. Yes,, each one would have that nifty mural with all the enterprises on it, but it would explain the corrridor at least a little. Also, originally Geordi's VISOR was supposed to be regularly used to supplement the main sensors (which makes little sense, but still) and he made regular trips to an observation lounge to take a peek at what was in front of the ship.

Of course, the RL explanation was that the Obs louge was part of the "swing" sets they had on the first season - if you pay attention, you'll notice that the wall behind the biobeds in sickbay was the same outer wall of the obs lounge, with simple carpet draped over the windows. In the second season they of course gave sickbay some real walls, and the Obs lounge was finished as a more permenant set, with proper corridors and everything.

Mark

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I vaguely remember an episode where Geordi goes to a forward lounge and looks out ... can't think of which ep, though ...

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

There's still no topping Picard's Merde....

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

It was the one with the Edo, Jeff..."Justice."

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Cool!

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Is "Merde" French for "Damn"? Which episode was that in?

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

Actually, it's French for "shit." Ooh, how daring, very HBO.

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

OK. I gotta see this now! Which ep was it in!?!?

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Lonely Among Us ...

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

I think it's The Battle (it's definatly one season 1 ep). In that episode, the corridor leading to "normal" observation lounge door has a very steep ramp, which is never seen again. Strange.

Season 2 also had Time Squared and Q Who, which I enjoyed. They managed a real feeling of tension that a lot of later episodes failed to generate.

And Jeff, how can you like the Battle? It's horrible! Everyone's badly out of character, the direction is appalling! Data and Geordi make snide comments to each other on the bridge, bizairre stuff happens for no real reason (the Feregi ship extending, everyone ending up in weird places when they beam down, the fact that is takes several seconds for the Ferengi Captain to dissapear after communications have been shut down, the fact that Yar thinks White is a primary colour, the weirdness of children being in the observation lounge (are they allowed free reign of the ship?), the Ferengi's acting like the flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz, the awful acting on display, I'll stop now), it's just a terrible episode. Second only to Justice, and at least that had some nice women to look at.

Urgh. Awful.

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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Actually, I've just realised that I've gotten "The Battle", and "The Last Outpost" mixed up. But I don't want to have to delete that post, as it was a good vent for a lot of built up rage. The Battle is okay. The Last Outpost makes me want to smother old people with pillows.

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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Liam,

The Battle is the episode where the Ferengi give the Stargazer back, then mind-control Picard to attack the Enterprise with the Stargazer. And Riker and Data have to come up with a solution to the Picard Manuever or die.

The Last Outpost is what I think you're talking of. And Data and LaForge have traded quips at the Ops/Conn post before, the children in the Obs Lounge -- hell, they could get there, and Yar is blonde: it surprises you she doesn't know what primary colors are?

Posted by Right on :

The best part of The Last Outpost was the old magician's condescending attitude towards the Ferengi at the end of the ep.

And the finger puzzles.

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Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Ha! I spotted my mistake first!

Still, I'd say that while data and Geordi might exchange quips, they don't normally sit there slagging off a first contact alien while he's on the bloody viewscreen.

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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

There was no blood on that viewscreen.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

YES! Season Two, did have some GREAT episodes too...

"The Measure of a Man"
"Q Who" *amazing*
"Time Squared" (Picard killing himself was quite eerie...)
"Peak Performance"
"The Dauphin"

and "Pen Pals!!!!!"
and "The Emissary"

Though we did have

The Royale
Shades of Grey
Samaritan Snare
The Outrageous Okona
and the non cloning part of "Up the Long Ladder"

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Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

WHAT?

Pen Pals, Dauphin, Emissary?

No way. The only good eps from Seas II were Peak Performance, Measure of a Man, Q Who?.

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Hmm. I did quite like "THE Emissary" too.

And Jeff, you've just created a thread with a big long post where you rap. You're in no position to correct me on my slang.

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"And Mojo was hurt and I would have kissed his little boo boo but then I realized he was a BAD monkey so I KICKED HIM IN HIS FACE!"
-Bubbles

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

That is someone else's fly and funkadacious rap. I didn't write it. You yankee trader!

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Pen Pals... oh Pen Pals... go watch it again! It is a truly amazing episode... the whole clincher of that episode was (I think) even before the credits... where Data answers the little girls call for help... Prime Directive indeed!

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"Yar, a lesbian? That girl had a sex drive! First, Data in Naked Now, then, in
Hide and Q, she hits on Picard! "Oh, if only you weren't the captain..." God! If
Denise Crosby hadn't left the series, she'd've slept with the entire senior staff by
now!" Jeff Kardde - March 7, 2001

Oh, and in THE Emissary, how can you NOT love the end scene with Worf and K'eylar SP? in Klingon Garb... looking like they are actually IN CONTROL totally... of the Galaxy class ship...

Posted by BRUTUS on :

Maybe it's because I was 6 when TNG premiered, and have watched the shows over and over since then, but I think some of you are a little too cynical about the first two seasons. There are some really good things that were done, as have been mentioned...but even bad episodes have nice moments. I get upset when they screwed up when the show was mature...I can forgive the odd stuff that came at the beginning. I actually like the first couple seasons a lot while not thinking it's the best.

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Actually, I liked the first season quite a bit. Big Goodbye, DataLore, Heart of Glory, Arsenal of Freedom, Conspiracy, The Neutral Zone, The Battle ... excellent episodes all.

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
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"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001