Flare Sci-Fi Forums: My Timeline-In-Progress

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Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :

I've been doing my own timeline regarding TOS, TAS, and the TOS Movies. Here's what I have so far:

2265- "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (TOS) Kirk's five-year mission begins halfway into 2265.

2266
into
2267- First Season TOS, from "The Corbomite Maneuver" to "Operation: Annihilate!" Second year of the 5-year mission.

2267
into
2268- Second Season TOS, from "Catspaw" to "Assignment Earth" Third year of the 5-year mission.

2268
into
2269- Third Season TOS, from "Spectre of the Gun" to "Turnabout Intruder" Fourth year of the 5-year mission.

2269
into
2270- First Season TAS, from "Beyond the Farthest Star" to "Jihad" Fifth year of 5-year mission.

2270- Second Season TAS, from "The Pirates of Orion" to "The Counter-Clock Incident" 5-year mission ends halfway into 2270.

2270
to
2272- Kirk is Chief of Starfleet Operations for 2 1/2 years.

2271
to
2272- Eighteen month refit of USS Enterprise NCC-1701.

2272- Star Trek: The Motion Picture

2272
to
2278- Second 5-year mission by Kirk and Enterprise crew. (This would have been the Star Trek: Phase II TV series.)
____________________________________________

Here are some questions I have:

1. What is the source for the datings of the films after TMP? Okuda does not give a reason for putting TWOK in 2285 in the Chronology. Is this from Paramount? Is it possible TWOK and took place in 2282, as it was released in 1982?

2. Where do the dates from STIV, V, and VI come from?

Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :

I always thought it was because Kirk stated in TWOK that he hadn't seen Khan for over fifteen years. Of course, if he just said fifteen instead of "over" fifteen, then your 2282 date would be correct. (IIRC, "Space Seed" took place in 2267 according to the Chronology)

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :

But he DID say 15 years. He didn't say "over." He said "There's a man out there I haven't seen in 15 years, who's trying to kill me."

So I guess TWOK does take place in 2282.

So that puts it like this:

2282-TWOK
TSFS

But now what about IV-VI? Where do their dates come from?

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

I was working on this subject as well. I'll post my timeline tomorrow.

Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :

Well Monkey, I would say TVH came directly after TSFS, as it was after all a kind of trilogy, all being set back to back. So IV would be around 2282-83 (if the we hypothetically say that TWOK did indeed take place in 2282).

Lol, I kinda pretend TFF did not take place at all!

TUC may probably have been set in the late 2280s. And Generation we know was set in 2293, 78 years before TNG in that film, which was in 2371.

Posted by Tahna Los (Member # 33) on :

In TUC, McCoy states that he was the Enterprise's CMO for about 27 years (I think). The date for TUC should reflect that.

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

I would find it surprising is TWOK was in 2282 as McCoy give Kirk a bottle of Romulan ale dated 2283.

Posted by Stingray (Member # 621) on :

That can be explained away, Shik. Romulan calender system or just a bottle that went from the vineyard to McCoy (perhaps it was the very end of 2282) or something like that. McCoy's line:

"Yeah, well it takes this stuff awhile to ferment." could easily be interpreted as sarcasm.

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :

Yeah, that bottle does throw a wrench into the whole idea of TWOK being in 2282.

The 2293 date for TUC is from the fact that McCoy says he's served on the Enterprise for 27 years, having replaced Dr. Mark Piper in 2266.

Yeah, I'd agree that TWOK, TSFS, and TVH should all take place within the same year. Possibly TFF takes place within that same year also, as it seems to begin right after TVH. (It's kinda more of a quadrilogy! )

The question though is which year? WHile there's no real evidence that contradicts Okuda's dates, we know that he was wrong on TMP, by a year. Should we just "adjust" his other dates to fit with a 2272 TMP?

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Hey, we don't even know if 2272 is the correct date. We only know that 2271 isn't. Anything between 2272 and 2283 is free game, as long as it involves 2.5 years of downtime for Kirk just prior to the movie.

Since Kirk's rank does not change in the movies 1-3, and the others only receive one-step promotions between 1 and 2, there's no pressing need to insert extra years between those movies for reasons of rank progression. And uniforms could change overnight, hairstyles overforthnight (save for Kirk, who can swap in a second, and Chekov, who can't change his hair even when moving to parallel universes).

IMHO, the primary reason to put a buffer zone between 1 and 2 (as well as to move 2 to 2284 or later) is the "Generations" tidbit that suggests that Kirk retired from Starfleet prior to 2, or at least held a sabattical or otherwise distanced himself from SF nine years before 2293. This holiday must have come before 2 and after 1 - it can't come during the 2-5 quadrology, and between 5 and 6 is too late.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

For the Romulan ale bottle to be postdated makes no sense. It's best to assume ST2 took place in that same year that was stamped on the bottle, and that's what McCoy's joke was about...

Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :

An observation-
In Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, the stardate for the Genesis tape is 7130.40, a year before the movie. This stardate would place the first test of Genesis before V'Ger's encounter. On the other hand, stardates are planet and ship subjective. This could explain the many discrepancies we see in Star Trek.
A few examples-
38325.30 Major disease on Obi VI. Year-2296. "The Child"
40877.20 Battle of Maxia Zeta. Year-2354. "The Battle"
The stardate for Tuvok's birthdate. Year-2264. "Unicomplex Zero, Part Two". I remember this stardate being 3xxxx.xx

My timeline-
2254 "The Cage"
2265 "Where No Man Has Gone Before"
2266 to 2269 The Series
2270 USS Enterprise NCC-1701 returns home.
2272 TMP (This date is supported by a comment uttered by Pres. Jaresh Enyo that Earth faced a planet wide crisis a hundred years before. He was president in 2372.)
2286 Movies 2 to 5
2293 Movie 6

Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :

My version of the timeline

This is still a draft, the final version will eventually end up on my site.

Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

Yeah, because the whole "ocean-eating flying space turd" incident didn't even RATE on the Crisis-O-Meter.

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Of the calamities-of-the-week in the TOS movies, I think Starfleet could have classified the TMP and TUC ones as not worthy of a planetary emergency. The TMP crisis was to be solved in space, or not solved at all. And Starfleet would want to keep the civilians out of the TUC one. TWoK and TSfS did not have major crises that would have affected Earth directly, nor did TFF or Generations.

Even the Borg attacks would not require a state of emergency, since what good would it do? Those problems would once again be solved in space, or then not solved.

Only TVH would register in the catastr-o-meter, really.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :

HArry: Why do you say that with TAS being considered, TMP is in 2273. Have you forgotten that the second season of TAS was only HALF a year? So two-and-a-half years between midway through 2270 (the year that Kirk's five year mission ends according to a line in Voyager) puts TMP at 2272.

To whoever: The reason for having an extended period of time between TMP and TWOK is all due to Harve Bennett. (The producer who stepped in after Roddenberry was "promeoted.") He decided that while GR was content to ignore the aging of the actors and place TMP a short while after the series, he wanted the characters ages to match those of the actors. So, since the actors looked a decade older than they did in TOS, he decided to place TWOK in that timeframe.

The other thing (which isn't exactly strictly canon, but is conjectured by Okuda and I accept) is that Kirk probably commanded another 5-year mission after TMP. This only makes sense, as TMP was originally to be the pilot for the follow-up TV series Star Trek: Phase II. A full list of episodes and partial scripts/treatments is available in the book ST II, and I am content to regard those stories as the events of the second 5-year mission, after TMP. So then adding after that time for Spock's promotion to captain, Kirk's appointment to instructor at Starfleet Academy, and the Enterprise's assignment to training duty, etc, AND the possible short-term retirement of Kirk as per Generations, you canosee there is a need for quite some years between TMP and TWOK.

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :

Hey! I just got it! In Generations, Kirk says that his first nexus experience was "9 years ago" from 2293. SO that means he returned to starfleet in 2284. THAT'S why the Chronology pegs TWOK at 2285. Duh!

Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :

Hey, folks, TMP can't be in 2271, 2272, or 2273!

Back when I was in college, after TWOK came out, I tried my hand at dating the movies and TOS. One thing I figured was that TMP had to be set in the late 2270's or early 2280's.

Remember, when they first figure out that V'Ger is really Voyager 6, Decker has the line, "Jim, this was launched more than 300 years ago." The first two Voyagers were launched in August and September of 1977. Therefore, TMP cannot take place any earlier than 2278, and that's assuming NASA could afford to punch out multimillion dollar space probes like issues of TV Guide!

From this I made a rough deduction that TOS' five year mission ran from 2271-76, based on a ballpark estimate for TMP at late 2279. Since that would put "Space Seed" in 2273 (roughly), it means we have to cram ST II-VI in the space between 2288 and 2293. Kinda uncomfortable, aint it.

Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :

Hmmmn...

Well, that wouldn't be so difficult, considering that II, III, IV, and V all look to have taken place in either one or two single years...

Now if only TPTB had though of this before they added Icheb's line in VIY stating that the first 5-year mission was from 2265 to 2270...

And that doesn't really leave room for a post-TMP/Phase II 5-year mission...

...Hmmn...

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Then again, Phase II as such couldn't happen after TMP anyway: Decker is dead, and so is Ilia, and Xon has been transformed into a human and then stored in V'Ger's memory patterns. What we would have would simply be the continued adventures of Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

And how much sense do these adventures make? Kirk is a flag officer, the Chief of SF Operations, who should rightfully be sitting behind a desk at SF HQ. The one-off galactic emergency is gone now, so what excuse does Kirk have in staying in space (hearing that it took a fight for him to get permission to do the V'Ger mission already - clearly the people in the Admiralty oppose of his space-hopping)? McCoy apparently hated being dragged off his civilian life, so why would he stay aboard (although we see that apparently he does)?

I could see the Enterprise undergoing plenty of post-TMP five-year missions, but not Kirk. And probably not Spock, who would have no ambitions of such command, and would probably settle for training cruises and the like if given captaincy straight after TMP.

A pre-TMP mission for the crew would be quite plausible psychologically etc., but then again, Kirk spoke of five years "out there". So while I'm all for moving TMP to the late 2270s, I'd have Kirk spend the meantime in some other assignment, close to Earth, sucking up to the boss to get those two promotion steps.

Timo Saloniemi