Even with only three movies, "The Next Generation" era films seem to have developed a few "cliches." Since I do not read the supposed scripts available online, I do not know if scenes like the following are in the movie, but this is what I hope I do not see in "Star Trek X:"
(1.) A close-up shot of Dr. Crusher's face looking down on a bio bed-ridden patient waking up.
(2.) What Rick Berman describes in magazine interviews as "rip-roaring" space battles wherein (a number of cliches here):
(a.) "Enterprise" is pounded by a ship (or ships) it is at least a match for, or, worse yet, by one that is a piece of junk.
(b.) Riker forgets that "Enterprise" is the most powerful ship in Starfleet . . .
(c.) . . . thus, our heroes must use a "gimmick" to win.
(3.) A scene that uses Geordi's eyes (actually, I liked that one in "Insurrection"), with that scene being Geordi's sole contribution to the movie.
(4.) Any scene where Troi is sitting in a seat she definately is not qualified to sit in, regardless of how many test her former and current lover said she passed.
Did I miss any? Can you think of anything else that has appeared in two or more of "The Next Generation" era movies?
[ December 16, 2002, 23:45: Message edited by: Raw Cadet ]
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
I thought of a potential one. Though some seem to think that Worf became Ambassador "for life," and that any appearance by Worf in "Star Trek X" will be a "violation of continuity," I think it entirely possible for him to be reassigned to "Enterprise." However, if he is still an Ambassador, his presence of "Enterprise" could be the second time he is "just passing through."[5.]
[ December 16, 2002, 23:42: Message edited by: Raw Cadet ]
Posted by Tahna Los (Member # 33) on :
Generations: Worf was there anyway.
First Contact: The Most Believable tie-in, the Defiant gets its ass whipped in a very important battle.
Insurrection: Uh..... why was he there in the first place?
With Worf being an ambassador, it may be easier to tie him in the next Star Trek Movie. That may be what the writers intended. It could be like a diplomatic type of mission in which Worf is sent by the Klingon High Command as an Observer. However, he may not reprise his tactical position, it just wouldn't make any sense.
And I do not want to see Geordi in the Helm. What the #$%^ was he doing there in Insurrection anyways?
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
If I recall correctly, Worf was on "Enterprise" in "Insurrection" because he was on his way back to Deep Space Nine from somewhere else. Of course, I do not recall Deep Space Nine being one of the many destinations Starfleet was asking "Enterprise" to go to (maybe he was catching a connecting flight in the Goran system). In a word: lame. That is why I said the Worf excuse could become a cliche depending on how they do it in the next movie.
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
Another thing I do not want to see, and, fortunately, will not be able to see is the "Voyager" sickbay posing as the "Enterprise" sickbay.
[6.]Of course, I really do not want to see the "Enterprise" (as in the "pre-E") sickbay posing as the "Enterprise" (as in the "E-E) sickbay.
[ December 16, 2002, 23:43: Message edited by: Raw Cadet ]
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Funny, I was just thinking about this today. And, while I was expecting out right honourable newbie to say "I don't want to see any of that horrible girly kissing stuff, ew!" (kidding!) I was wondering about some stuff, like one very pertinent question: should Geordi's eyes be back to "normal" - or should they really be normal?
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
I wonder about that myself. The effects of the planet seemed to last off-planet, but we only saw the short-term results; do they wear off after a while once one leaves the planet? I might argue that they do, indeed, wear off; Worf was not still in puberty when he went back to Deep Space Nine. And that way, Geordi will still have something to do ("Geordi, see if you can penetrate that wall" ZOOM IN ON GEORDI'S EYES).
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
[7.]What I really do not want to see is that horrid Ready Room set from "Insurrection," with its half-dozen doors.
[ December 16, 2002, 23:44: Message edited by: Raw Cadet ]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I would think Geordi's eyes should stay real. After all, the planet regrew them. What would cause them to revert? When the Son'a left the planet, they started aging normally. They didn't start aging even faster to make up for the planet's effects.
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
What about Worf? Or is Klingon puberty something that you outgrow by the next episode of "Deep Space Nine" following the premiere of "Insurrection?"
Of course, the truth is, "Worf's puberty" was a stupid idea to (supposedly) generate laughs. Since none of the other "Enterprise" crewmembers "grew" significantly younger, why did Worf revert to puberty? Does Klingon puberty take place during a Klingon's late 30's/early 40's? Of course not. So why did none of his fellow officers revert to puberty? See the first sentence of my second paragraph.
[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Raw Cadet ]
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Klingon puberty happens a lot earlier.. Alexander was fully grown and serving on a warship by the time he was 10. Its too bad they couldnt work this aspect of Klingon biology into Worf's backstory for the chronology, i think that dates for Khitomer have already made it into shows based on Worf aging at a more 'human' speed.
And yeah, one of the reasons i hate insurrection is the stupid ass zit-jokes..
Geordi started out at the helm.. but he probably should have been in engineering, with all the warp-core-ejection nonsense going on, but they probably thought he was reading 'Mr. Scotts Guide to the Enterprise-E' in his office, or trying to work out a metreon gas effect with a holographic Leah Brahms.. or maybe they assumed that he had turned into a fluorescent lizard.. as long as theyre veterans of the E-D theyre used to handling things without the big guy there.
If you want to read something retarded, try the TNG Gateways crossover. Ambassador Worf not only ends up taking tactical, but he also joins an away team and batleHs some dudes.. but thats not even the worst writing of the book, it also features Troi's first command, and the 'warlike' Deltans. Greenberger must be on crack
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think Worf was on his way back from some security assignment...what makes it so obvious that it's a lame excuse is that even the writers thought so. Picard asks him what he's doing on the ship and Worf's response gets drowned in in background chatter. We barely get to hear the first part of the explanation.
I can't, for the life of me, understand why Sirtis, McFadden and Burton keep doing these movies. They barely get to contribute. Troi and Crusher's boob conversation was funny...but was hardly a contributing factor.
Why in the hell would we see Voyager's sick bay posing for the Ent-E's? And even if they did reuse set parts...so what? The ships are so close together design wise, it makes sense that certain facilities will look the same. As long as it's not exactly the same set like the Ent-A/ Ent-D engine room....
I don't want to see Riker and Troi doing anything that requires them to take their clothes off. As in hot tub action. I understand there's a major plot point with the two of them supposedly, but I don't need to see them making out.
And while we're at it, I want Riker's beard back.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
quote: And while we're at it, I want Riker's beard back.
The kidnappers mail it to you in a Ziploc� baggie...
Posted by Dr Phlox (Member # 680) on :
Insurrection was almost the worst Trek film to date. Does anyone else remember Shatner's directorial adventure?
Posted by Grokca (Member # 722) on :
Shatner had his beard woven in to his toupee to keep him young. Paul
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:Why in the hell would we see Voyager's sick bay posing for the Ent-E's?
Because it posed for the E-E's in First Contact and Insurrection? (Actually, I forget if there was a sickbay scene in Insurrection, but ...)
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I didnt see any problem with it.. sets get reused all the time, and i think the producers deserve a pat on the back for the creativity, because the redecorated sickbay Sovereign style so it fit right in with the ship.
Set reuses i dont approve of: Using TNG corridors as 1701-A corridors in Final Frontier.. they didnt take down the 24th century signage. The ST:VI corridors were redresses of the same sets, but looked infinitely better Using the 1701-D engine room in ST:VI as the 1701-A engine room
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, that just goes to show how well done the reuse of the sickbay set was...I've seen the movie a dozen times and it never stuck out at me. Yah, the tech in the room looked similar to that in use aboard contemporary starships...but I see nothing wrong with that.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
Well I do to a certain extent.
The Sovereign is a much larger ship with a much larger crew. This would neccessitate a larger sickbay.
The Sickbay would be one of the few rooms aboard that would actually HAVE to be substantially unique among starships.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Captain Mike,
You're aware that the TNG corridors and sickbay were redresses of The Motion Picture sets to begin with, weren't you?
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Of course.. but by the time they had been labeled in mauve and lavender signs (for the 1701-D residential sets..) they really didnt fit the bill for the 1701-A.. In ST:V the TNG door signs and beige and blue color schemes and carpets were still there, but for ST:VI they added the original chrome finishes and metal floors as they had been shown in ST:1-3.
They were actually built for Star Trek: Phase II, used for TMP when they decided to make the TV series a movie instead, used for ST 2-3, then refurbished to be the 1701-D corridors, reused as 1701-A corridors, used as 1701-D one last time for Generations and then taken down.
Quite a story, fifteen+ years of boldly going around the same corner and then resetting the shot to use the same intersection so it looks like the next one where no man.. where no one has gone before
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The actual sick bay for a Sovvie would have to be larger and quite different than an Intrepid's, yes. But what little we saw of sick bay in FC was just fine using the Voyager set. We didn't see the whole room. With the lighting as low as it was, I have no trouble believing that the actual room aboard the ship is quite different than Voyager's.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
or that it was composed of many rooms.. the VGR sickbay isnt much bigger than the TOS, TMP-TWOK or TOS sickbays.. the only problem with the VGR sickbay is that it is all one room.. the previous three sickbays were established to be much larger facilities, of operating suites & labs & doctors offices (by redressing the regular sickbay to fit the weeks script) that we ended up seeing during the course of the shows, even though we saw the main room most often. It can of course be assumed that the Sovereign has a larger sickbay than Voyager, but we only saw the main diagnostic area.
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
Well, now that "Voyager" sickbay has been struck (it has, has it not?), we may not see the "Enterprise" sickbay at all. Of course, Dr. Crusher will have even less to do, then . . .
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
quote: The actual sick bay for a Sovvie would have to be larger and quite different than an Intrepid's, yes. But what little we saw of sick bay in FC was just fine using the Voyager set. We didn't see the whole room. With the lighting as low as it was, I have no trouble believing that the actual room aboard the ship is quite different than Voyager's.
Reasonable speculation. But similarity implies further similarity.
It was an understandable set reuse, if a dissapointng one.
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
I don't know about you guys, but the Ent-E/Voyager "style" seen in the corridors, Voyager's bridge, etc. seems rather cold compared to the Ent-D and the more colorful TOS Enterprise. There's just too much gray for my eyes!
The oddest set usage I noticed is in Generations when all the lights on the E-D go out. What was the point of repainting the bridge when they dimmed the lights so low?
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
Well since we all know that the doors read the script, perhaps the lights in "Generations" did too, and decided to dim in order to match the "mood" of the movie.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I still dont see why its 'diappointing' for the sickbay set to be reused (realize that at least one of the walls is still the phase II sickbay from 77).. its probably one of the smarter things theyve done, budget wise because with Sovereign color scheme, it looked ike a completely different room, and considering the one year deviation between the commissioning of Voyager and E-E they share a lot of tech in common, just on different scales..
Posted by NightWing (Member # 4) on :
So, what do you people think about adding a model of the NX-01 Enterprise to Picard's collection. I think it's a bad idea.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
I do not want to see the advanced deployable armor and transphasic torpedoes from the VOY final.
I do not want to see Riker in command, only so the most goddamn powerful ship ever build by Starfleet up to that point can have its shot up stern handled back to it on a gold-pressed latinum platter by some half-baked alien race that Voyager would have no trouble taking to school.
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
I would not hold your breath, David. Two out of three "The Next Generation" movies had such battles, and if Rick Berman is ever quoted as saying "Star Trek X" will have "rip-roaring" battles, we can count on "Enterprise"-E getting pounded.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
*shoots himself, or better, B&B (no, not Bed & Breakfast, Berman and Braga)*
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
Do not put the bullet to your brain until we hear Rick Berman say "rip roaring" space battle.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Oh he always says that..
'Honey, I'm home.. i hope you have a rip-roaring dinner made up'
'We had a rip roaring time at the dentist today'
'I have to go to the bathroom and take a rip-roaring crap'
Posted by Proteus (Member # 212) on :
I dont want to see time travel, time slow-down, or time anything, except mabye bullet time...
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Oh yes, that would look original, wouldn't it?
Posted by Woodside Kid (Member # 699) on :
Gee....phaser time. Didn't we see that in "Wink Of An Eye?"
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Damn you WD, you just so ruined the Enterprise pilot for me. Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Er, huh? Even allowing for the smilie, and assuming it's a joke, I'm still confused and frightened.
Whatchu talkin' about David?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"WD"? Last name "Forty"?
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Ooops, I meant "WK", and I thought the phaser time thing was original until I remembered that particular TOS episode with the radiation-accelerated aliens.
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
Isn't the Sickbay set from Voyager gone now anyway? So we may see...*shudders* the NX-01 Sickbay being used.
What I don't want to see in Trek X: Worf showing up without a good reason Riker and Troi in a traditional Betazoid wedding Picard in a hot tub scene Geordi in the helm Crusher and Troi not doing much The Enterprise-E being gang-banged by several ships
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Or they might *gasp* build a new set!!!
Or, there could be no sickbay scenes.
Posted by leuckinc (Member # 729) on :
Ok, thought about movie "X".. Voy. brought back very powerfull weapons and tech / borg stuf. Do the feds get them? will they be in the movie?
[ November 02, 2001: Message edited by: leuckinc ]
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
No.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
Actually, Psy. I think what you meant to say was...
"Oh please dear god no."
Posted by leuckinc (Member # 729) on :
heheheh.. That is what I was thinking too! But in a story line type of way, they should be in, shouldn't they? Afterall the feds always want the best tech stuff they can get.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
No. Because everyship and person in Starfleet is not going to spend the next two years wandering around going "wow. That Borg stuff Janeway bought back. Wow".
There was a better argument for the Dominion to be in Insurrection. Or First Contact to be mentioned properly in DS9. And it still wasn't really that important.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Voyager sucks.
The new 'technology' sucks.
Any 'Trek' show set in the 'future' (aka: post TNG/DS9/VOY) will probably suffer if it's forced to utilize Janeway's tech ...
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
SPOILERS BELOW
1. I did not see
2a. I did not see (since the dialogue clearly established "Scimitar" was designed by a fanboy, and, thus, more powerful than "Enterprise.")
b. I did not see (because Riker was, fortunately, otherwise occupied.)
c. Check (but, again, they were outgunned (and since for once "Enterprise" used all of her weapons (literally, in the case of torpedoes), even with the use of a "gimmick" to win, the film avoided the cliche of "Enterprise" firing a few potshots while being pummeled, which is what I did not want to see.))
3. I did not see (but perhaps I should have wanted to see that as not using his eyes means he dID not get used much at all.)
4. Check
5. I did not see (since my ears did not hear any dialogue explaining his presence.)
6. I did not see (but it would have looked better to me than the sickbay I saw.)
7. I did not see
Though I may sound negative to you above, the film actually turned out better than I thought it would (of course, I thought "Star Trek: Nemesis" would be complete and utter crap). Certainly not the best, but not the worst, either.
Those who originally posted in this thread may want to review what they wrote they did not want to see in the tenth Star Trek film. Are you pleased with what you saw? As I re-read the posts in this thread I noticed a few posters indicated they did not want to see any of the future/special technology present in "Endgame." We did not, fortunately, but why (not)?
Posted by Tahna Los (Member # 33) on :
In this case, I would like to believe that Worf was invited to the wedding and was thus caught up in the events. Though I have no idea why he would be wearing a traditional Starfleet Uniform rather than some Ambassadorial Clothing.
I forgot: was Worf among the away team that first boarded the Scimitar?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
The away team was Picard, Riker, Data, and Troi, I think.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Worf was part of the away team. He was the one who first said of Shinzon, "You are human" as if the audience or away team didn't already see that.
Posted by Raw Cadet (Member # 725) on :
Worf is still in Starfleet, is he not? I see nothing wrong with him wearing a Starfleet uniform as an ambassador, and I guess he is one, as that makes more sense than him wearing red but being "Enterprise's" tactical officer. Of course, we will never know as the dialogue did not offer any explanation.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Well, at no point did Worf specifically say "I will now no longer be in Starfleet." However, it was implied. And also, ambassadors in the real world are civilians, unless they're from scary military dictatorships, and even then they act like civilians, because that's just how things are done. All the UFP ambassadors we've seen have been civilians.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Having said that, it might be perfectly acceptable for Lt. Commander Worf (ret.) to appear in uniform at fancy functions like weddings, and if he happened to be on the Enterprise when it encountered Unexplained Phenomena I can see Picard asking him to take the tactical station.
I guess.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Finally saw it last night.
PRO + Picard's toast of "to absent friends" + Worf's hatred of Irving Berlin + Shinzon's nose. It's mesmerizing. + New LCARS scheme. Very neat. + Ending spacedock scene
CON - Picard's "I'm the anti-Al Gore" routine - the Argo. Completely. - Romulans. Why where they there again? - Commander Batgirl. - Editing out Leah Brahms, Martin Madden, & the Titan. I REALLY wanted to see Steven Culp adjusting to being aboard. - Smoke trails & lens flares for the warp jump - Deck 29 - New torpedo tubes & phaser strips. Except for the blob on the aft Deck 3 citadel, you can't tell anything new is there, especially the phasers. - B-4. Why was he there again? - Viceroy Vincent. Where's Linda Hamilton? If only Robert Urich was still around for a sequel to "Ice Pirates." - Sickbay, or wherever the fuck that was supposed to be. "Hey, look! We got shelving at Lowe's!" - The Scimitar bridge. I kept having to remind myself that the DS9 Ops set has been gone for 4 years & wasn't reused here. Or was it?
NEUTRAL = The B5 telepathic targeting array = Worf. Granted, it's been 4 years. He could've reserved his commission to be ambassador, helped Martok smooth things out, & then a more diplomatic person could've taken over, allowing Worf to return to duty. = New tricorders. Neat looking, but still a little too funky. = Riker's bloblike dimensions. Scary to see the spread, nice to think that it's being seen that he's getting too old to go running around on the planet all the time & decided to step up to conformal assprint-hood.
All that being said, we should all be glad that I don't have a computer anymore, because I'm getting the idea of doing aftermath fanfic .
