Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Voyager's forgotten story ideas

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Posted by grb on :

Well, we all know that when Voyager first started, it had plenty of story ideas, like the crew's desperate attempts to survive, the paris/chokotay conflict, and, what was supposed to b one of the central conflicts of the seriies, the maquis/starfleet conflict. Its pretty much too late to have these stories brought into the series now, but there are a few stories left behin that can still be told. Such as, how did Tom Paris get in trouble with starfleet? All we need to know is that he didnlt report a mistake of his that made someone die. And another, newer story(Spilers:
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$ we know voyager's maquis reaction to the massacer of the maquis by the dominion, but what about the actual dominion war that involved the whole federation? Voyager can now communicate with starfleet (maybe), what if janeway finds out Mark was killed inb the Breen attack on earth? What if kim's parents were killed there too? how would the crew react to learning of the devastation caused by the worst war (and only major war) in federation history?

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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Voyager's writers never seemed to take advantage of any of their opportunities, and instead focused on weird spatial anomolies and such.

BTW, from O'Brien's descriptions, the Cardassian war in the 2340's-60's was certainly a major war.

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I would call any interstellar war a major one. I'd put the Tzen'Kethi in there as well as the not-quite-a-war with the Klingons.

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Posted by Gepta001 (Member # 231) on :

speaking of O'Brian, why is he just a petty rank? I did a search,and as far as I can come up with basically he's an Ensign!!?? With the war he fought in, and supposedly how long he's been in starfleet? why the low rank? what's the story?

-FTM

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Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Because he's enlisted, and thus his position matters more than the actual rate/rank.

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Posted by Gepta001 (Member # 231) on :

that still doesn't clear anything up for me

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funniest TV quote.....

"A small penis is a clean penis"
-Matt Real World Hawaii

Posted by Epoch (Member # 136) on :

People who are Ensigns and above went through starfleet acadamey and got their commissions(sp). O'Brian did not go through the acadamey and there for is not really considered an officer thus the low rank. However he has been around long enough that people respect his opinions and treat him as if he was an officer.

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Posted by Obese Penguin (Member # 271) on :

Enlisted Perrsonel do go through Academy they just take Classes that are particluar to what they are gonna do basicly like a trade school where they teach you what you chosse like if your going to be an engineer they teach you only Engineering and a little of the rest and graduation as an enlisted officer takes maybe a year unlike officers which spend upwards to 5 years at Sf Academy .

Basicly the differance between Enlisted and Officer is that Officers go for a carrer in Starfleet they hope to some day get there own command Enlisteds only wish to learn a trade or spend a couple of years in Sf , the closest an Enlisted person can get to Officer is the rank of Cheif Warrent Officer which is basicly Ensign but without the Education.

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Posted by grb on :

The cardassian war, and klingon and tzen'kethi were major conflicts, but in no way could they compare to the dominion war. One of the great massacres of the cardassian war was the death of 100 federation civilians at cetlik 3. One of the major massacres of the dominiuon war was the death of 800 MILLION cardassians at the battle of cardassia.

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Although with the Navy it's possible for an enlisted person to become an officer. I assume it's the same with Starfleet as well.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Yes, but O'Brien mentioned at some point that he chose to stay enlisted, that he didn't want to be a commissioned officer.

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Posted by Gepta001 (Member # 231) on :

TSN: when did O'brian mention this, I'm a big O'brian fan, think it'd be cool to see this ep.

-FTM

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funniest TV quote.....

"A small penis is a clean penis"
-Matt Real World Hawaii

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

The only incentive for an enlisted man with a high and hard-earned rating of Senior CPO and a lucrative command position to become a commissioned officer would be a pay raise. But since TNG-era Starfleet doesn't have payrolls in the traditional sense, this incentive no longer applies.

O'Brien could probably become an Ensign or a Lieutenant by taking a brief course and signing a few documents. But that would turn a senior enlisted man into a junior officer, that is, reduce his prestige immensely. In light of this, I very much doubt Starfleet supports the "mustang" option at all.

OTOH, an enlisted man today only works for the military as long as he wants to, but an officer is commissioned for life and dedicated to the military career. In O'Brien's case the situation is something of the reverse - commissioned officers around him retire and rejoin Starfleet as they please, while he himself is a dedicated career Starfleeter.

There are still promotion possibilities for O'Brien in the enlisted ratings. He's a CPO or SCPO now, and his Academy instructor assignment probably would include a promotion to MCPO - heck, perhaps even "MCPO of Starfleet" if the said organization supports this honorary rating.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

The ep that he mentioned his choice to stay a non-com was "Past Tense, part 1" DS9

But what does all this have to do with Voyager stories?

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Posted by Dane Simri (Member # 272) on :

Dhunter: You said, "Enlisted Perrsonel do go through Academy..." What's the canon source on this one?

Timo: You said, "OTOH, an enlisted man today only works for the military as long as he wants to, but an officer is commissioned for life and dedicated to the military career." I assume you mean that an enlisted person ENLISTS for a period of service in the military, after which he/she is given the choice to re-enlist or leave the service. As far as commissioned for life... well, that's partially true. Today (in the US, anyway) officers incur an obligation to serve after they've been commissioned (usually from three to five years, depending on the commissioning source) after which they too are given the option to leave the service. (I was an Army officer for five years, and chose to leave the military at the end of my commitment to pursue a civilian career.) However, officers who resign this way retain their commissions for life, under a reserve status.

Wow... this is REALLY off thread.

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Dane

"...and there was war in heaven..." The Bible, Revelation 12:7

Posted by Gepta001 (Member # 231) on :

theres nothing wrong with a really off thread, sometimes thats how good conversations start.

-FTM

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funniest TV quote.....

"A small penis is a clean penis"
-Matt Real World Hawaii

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

Dane Simri: In "The Drumhead" TNG, Crewman Tarsus said that he went through something like "Starfleet's program for Enlisted Personel".

However, in "Trials and Tribbleations" DS9 (I think it was in this episode) Bashir asks O'Brien if he had studied something or other while he was at the Academy. I don't remember what his response was, but it wasn't "I didn't go to the bloody Academy, I'm an enlistedman dammit!" Now while I think that was a mistake on the part of the writers, you can take it as you like.

I also remember a scene in DS9 where O'Brien was talking to Jake about whether or not Sisko would be mad at him for not wanting to be a Starfleet guy. He told Jake that he went into town and joined up one day against his father's wishes. It doesn't sound like he went through the Academy at all. So my guess is that Enlisted personel never set foot on the Academy grounds unless their training courses take place at the Academy (which is possible). If they do, they are only there for a few months at most.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

I'm sure Sisko meant that he joined the Academy against his father's wishes. Somehow, I can't see Sisko as a non-com...

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"The Earl of Sandwich invented the sandwich. Samuel Morse invented the Morse Code. Plato invented the plate."
-Holly, Red Dwarf: "Parallel Universe"

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I think Aban meant that *O'Brien* joined Starfleet against his father's wishes.

Since O'Brien is so cool with people saying that he attended the Academy, and even speaks of it himself, it would seem logical to assume that enlisteds in the 24th century Starfleet call their place of initial study an Academy as well. Perhaps because the training programs take place in facilities shared by the officer Academy? Perhaps because even enlisteds have to study a bit of Temporal Mechanics, and it really doesn't pay to hire TWO mad scientists to teach it, one to the cadets and one to the enlisteds.

So O'Brien could easily say something like "As I just told to my old Academy pal, it was a good thing neither of us ever went to the bloody Academy! So how was your trip to the Academy, Julian? Did you meet any of my old instructors? Or those uppity Academy teachers of yours?"...

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Dane Simri (Member # 272) on :

Actually, in today's US military, the schools that train junior enlisted personnel to be sergeants or petty officers (also called non-commissioned officers or NCO's) are referred "NCO Academies." When I was on active duty and spoke to an NCO about "the academy," it was understood that the academy I was speaking of was the NCO academy, not West Point (the United States Military Academy). Perhaps Starfleet has something analogous.

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Dane

"...and there was war in heaven..." The Bible, Revelation 12:7

Posted by Marko Latin on :

Somebody should rename this thread to "O'Brien"

or "Ex-Voyager"

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