Flare Sci-Fi Forums: Adm. Ross- There might be $$$$

This is topic Adm. Ross- There might be $$$$ in forum General Trek at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://flare.solareclipse.net/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/1234.html

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

What kind of admiral was Adm. Ross? When he first appeared he seemed to just be your run of the mill admiral. Towards the end of DS9 he seemed to be someone special. I base this on the fact that he was discussing Worf with Gen. Martok in WYLB.

Comments?

------------------
"Everything I needed to learn in life I learned from Optimus Prime."

Rule #3 : Whenever someone under you screws up make sure you teach them a lesson more so than you punish them.

Posted by Deep6 on :

He had 3 pips (or whatever they are)on his collar, so thats fairly important. i believe he was originally the commander of the 9th fleet, but as for in the end, i dont know.

------------------
"So where are the nuggets on a chicken anyway?"

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

He was referred to as Vice Admiral William J Ross in TDoW, which matches his three pips. (Is it just me or are there a hell of a lot of Vice-Admirals.)

------------------
"A Star Wars picture that preaches against greed is a little like Bill Clinton in the pulpit for a chastity-begins-at-home campaign."

-Rex Murphy on Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

Perhaps there is a Vice-Admiral in charge of each fleet, so at least nine of them.

------------------
-I'm not principal of the line, mother.
-And you never will be...

Posted by grb on :

Spoilers ahead....

There seem to have been alot of changes in position over the course of the war. First it started out like this, during "A Time to Stand":

Sisko is just captain of the Defiant

Martok is just captain of the Rottaren

Ross is some type of important commander. Could he be the suprememe commander of the ill-fated 7th fleet?

Over the course of the season 6 war arc, we saw sisko move to some more important position as one of ross' advisors.

By "You are Cordially Invited," the station has been retaken. At this point....

Sisko is just captain of the defiant and DS9

Martok is supreme commander of the 9th fleet

Ross disappears....Maybe he has gone back to starbase 375 to continue to command the 7th fleet, or some other force.

It seems it stays pretty much that way until "Tears of the prophets":

Sisko is named commander of the invasion of cardassia.

Martok is still commander of the 9th fleet.

Ross reappears before the battle, but then disappears.....It seems possible that more than one fleet was used in the invasion of chin'toka. Maybe Ross' 7th fleet (back to at least half strenght as metnioned in some other obscure episode) also participates in the invasion, but perhaps ross himself stays behind.

After this point Ross appears on the station several more times, such as in "Take me out to the Holosuite." Maybe by this point the 7th fleet also operates out of DS9, along with the 9th.

Ross' importance changes by "The Emeperor's New Cloak." In this episode, Martok mentions he'll ask Gorwron for more ships, and Sisko says he'll ask admiral ross for more ships. I believe it is possible that by this time Ross has been placed in charge of all federation forces fighting in the dominion war.

Overtime, i believe things start to change. Because by the 7th season arc, Martok is mentiones by Gorwron to have been commanding the entire klingon war effort. Perhaps by this point martok was put in command of all klingon forces operating in the dominion war.

So, by the time of the finale, things stand as follows:

Sisko is still in command of the invasion of cardassia. This includes commanding the battle of carddassia prime.

Martok, now channcelor, is in command of all klingon forces.

Ross is in command of all federation forces fighting in the dominion war.

Thoughts?

------------------
"How many people does it take before it becomes wrong?"- Jean-Luc Picard

"Fortune Favors the Bold."- Benjamin Sisko

"And so, the warriors, the peacemakers, the helpers, the saviors, the forgotten, and the remembered, they all signed on that data padd and peace was made."- Shannon London-Karkarsku, leader of the Unisist Movement

Captain Alex Herenwhiner,
Transwarp inter-dimension timeship explorer U.S.S. Liberty

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

makes sense, I like it.

------------------
-I'm not principal of the line, mother.
-And you never will be...

Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :

I agree with that, but it seemed to me that Sisko was given an unusual amount of power during the war. Esp. the battles. It felt like Sisko was the Adm. and Ross was a Capt.

------------------
"Everything I needed to learn in life I learned from Optimus Prime."

Rule #3 : Whenever someone under you screws up make sure you teach them a lesson more so than you punish them.

[This message was edited by bryce on June 18, 1999.]

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

I want to know what happened to Alynna Nechayev - she WAS after all the Admiral in charge of the sectors closest to the Cardassian boarders!?!

------------------
"Ooh, FASA." - The Shadow, aka Frank G - June 1999

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Maybe she was replaced by Admiral Ross...

------------------
Star Trek: Dark Horizon
Creator, Owner, Only Writer

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

When I first saw an admiral they all 4 pips with a box around them. But then later they refined it so that 1-4 pips boxed represent an admiral. 1 pip boxed means 1 star admiral, 2 pips boxed meaning 2 star admiral, etc.

Hobbes
9906.19

------------------
Got Trek?

Posted by grb on :

Sisko was given so much power because starfleet put him in charge of the invasion of cardassia. Thus, Ross would have made the major war decisions, such as fleet deployment and such, while sisko lead many of the actual battles and made the invasion plans.

------------------
"How many people does it take before it becomes wrong?"- Jean-Luc Picard

"Fortune Favors the Bold."- Benjamin Sisko

Captain Alex Herenwhiner,
Transwarp inter-dimension timeship explorer U.S.S. Liberty

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

There's no such thing as one-star, two-star admiral, etc. Presumably some deep underling at Pocket was labeling the rank diagram and made more than a few mistakes.

The TNG-era rank system for admirals is as follows:

[l] (Not in use, could have been Commodore once upon a time)

[ll] Rear Admiral

[lll] Vice Admiral

[llll] Admiral

I would appear that Fleet Admiral is not a rank but more of a position by the TNG era. (Nechayev was a Vice Adm. in CoC and had the usual 3 pips but was referred to as Fleet Admiral in The Search 2 and had the same number of pips... it's unlikely she jumped two ranks in two and a half years as well as wore the same number of pips. And Fleet Adm. Shanthi had 3 pips in Redemption 2). I like to think of it as analagous to Staff Sergeant in a Police Detachment... a rotating chief-of-staff position amongst those of Sergeant rank. Presumably the Federation is carved up into Starfleet operations regions and each one has one a rotating order for Fleet Admiral's post for that region.

------------------
"A Star Wars picture that preaches against greed is a little like Bill Clinton in the pulpit for a chastity-begins-at-home campaign."

-Rex Murphy on Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace

[This message was edited by The_Tom on June 19, 1999.]

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Well, a one-star admiral would be a Commodore/RA (lower half), a two-star admiral would be a RA (upper half), etc. Different names, same rank.

The one-pip rank (Commodore/RA [lower half]) is certainly in use...those admirals would probably be in command of small flotillas and such.

"Fleet Admiral" (AKA Admiral of the Fleet) is normally the highest admiral rank, although the title could also be informally be applied to an admiral of lower rank in command of a fleet. Vice-Admirals do this in the US, and could very well act in the same capacity in Starfleet.

------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
"Speak softly, drive a Sherman tank." - TMBG

Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :

...Certainly in use? We've never ever seen a one pip-in-a-box rank ever. We've never heard of Commodore or Rear Admiral Lower Half or any flag rank lower than Rear Admiral since TOS. In fact, considering Kirk went from Captain to R. Adm in 18 months it stands to reason that Commodore was gone by the end of TOS.

------------------
"A Star Wars picture that preaches against greed is a little like Bill Clinton in the pulpit for a chastity-begins-at-home campaign."

-Rex Murphy on Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

But it leaves a severe hole in the command structure, though. And we've never really seen small groups of ships together either, so there haven't been many opportunities for Commodores to show up.

------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
"Speak softly, drive a Sherman tank." - TMBG

Posted by Federation Shipmaster (Member # 15) on :

The actress who played Nechayev died. However, in various novels, she still hodls a high position in Starfleet operations.

------------------
What bloke invented signatures?

Posted by Brigman on :

The actress who played Nacheyev died?? When?? How?

------------------
Peace!
Brigs

Posted by Cargile (Member # 45) on :

Real sound logic you have there. If we haven't seen it, it doesn't exist.

------------------
"There are always bigger tits."

Qui-Gon Jinn in Mos Espa's sleaziest adult nightclub.

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I really don't think that Natalia Nogulich, the actress who played Admiral Nechayev, is dead. I can't be certain since the IMDb appears to be down at the moment. However, she does all the Bible readings for A&E's "Mysteries of the Bible", so she must be at least semi-alive.

------------------
"It's not my birthday, it's not today. It's not my birthday, so why do you lunge out at me?"
--
They Might Be Giants

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

According to IMDb, she hasn't been in anything since early 1998.

------------------
Brain: "Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
Pinky: "I think so, Brain, but, if you get a long little doggie, wouldn't you just call it a 'dachshund'?"

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Yes, but it doesn't include the A&E gig, does it?

------------------
"It's not my birthday, it's not today. It's not my birthday, so why do you lunge out at me?"
--
They Might Be Giants

Posted by jh on :

grb: I like it with one or two minor revisions.

I don't know if we can say that Ross is command of all the Federation forces in the Dominion war for sure. But we can say that by the end of the series he is certainly in charge of all the forces operating in the Bajoran theatre of the war. It seems like, as Vice-Admiral, it's more likely that he as command over a particular theatre of operations than over the whole war. For instance, several times he just reports on the goings on the Bolian or Vulcan Fronts, where it seems there would likely be other Admirals. As an analogy, think of Ike in WWII. In command of all Allied forces in Europe, but not the whole war.

Continuing the analogy and a point I've made on some other boards: Sisko's importance seems to me completely in keeping with his experience in the sector and in dealing with the Dominion. Not to mention commander of the primary base. I tend to think of him as Omar Bradley to Ross's Ike. Though the rank can be confusing.

------------------
Proverbs for Paranoids, 3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

It's very strange to think that the people who make Star Trek created the encyclopedia to keep track of things and yet we still have to point out mistakes in both the shows and the encyclopedia itself. A mon avis, I believe that the four pips inside the box is for fleet admiral. The fact that admirals on the shows who were addressed as fleet admiral while wearing the three pips inside the box was a mistake.

------------------
"But I want it that way"

-Backstreet Boys

Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :

With The five-star fleet admiral thing aside (don't know where they got that from) who can blame the Enclyclopedia people for labeling the Admiral insignias generically (one star, etc.). The show is so inconsistant with Admiral rankings what are they supposed to do?
The Tom: Actually the last time a Commodore was mentioned was in the com traffic at the beginning of ST: TMP. Kirk was just so cool that they kicked him straight up to Rear Admiral. Of course even by the chronology's (in my opininion stupid) assessment that only a year (or whatever) went by between TOS and TMP, that still gives Kirk enough time to become a Commodore, and then be promoted to RADM. While I was in the Navy I saw an Admiral go from RADM LH to UH to VADM over a six month period and she wasn't even a great hero like Kirk.

[This message has been edited by Obi Juan (edited June 28, 1999).]

Posted by HMS White Star (Member # 174) on :

Wait a minute I assumed they would just take normal US Naval Ranks you know Rear Admiral one pip, Vice Admiral two pips, Admiral three pips, Fleet Admiral four pips. Any way I thought the rank of a Commodore was an honerary rank given to a captian when he was on another ship, so there who only be one captain on the ship. Of course being Star Trek the couldn't follow the perfectly logical system the US navy had, they had to make there own one up loosy based on the US Navy's ranks

HMS White Star

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Starfleet does follow the US Navy's system, right down to a similar basis in the rank insignia.

------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
"I could never sleep my way to the top, 'cause my alarm clock always wakes me right up." - TMBG

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

And why can't they make up their own rank format, or adjust an existing one? Heck, my SF story uses Sirdars and...uh...other guys.

*checks notes*

------------------
"And give me back my evil heart so I can see you as you are."
--
John Linnell

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Anyone who wants to make up a rank system probably doesn't understand the logistics and purpose of ranks in the first place.

------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
"I could never sleep my way to the top, 'cause my alarm clock always wakes me right up." - TMBG

Posted by Jedi Weyoun (Member # 110) on :

And if they DID make up their own, it would be harder for people to pick up on right away.

------------------
"Fear attracts the fearful"
([[[[[[*]}��

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

I found my notes.

Sirdar
Dizdar
Naik
Nizam

Those are just preliminary, though.

------------------
"And give me back my evil heart so I can see you as you are."
--
John Linnell

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Back to Admiral Ross. I agree with Fabrux. Admiral Nechayev was promoted from vice-admiral to fleet admiral in 2370. So it's possible to assume that Ross took her place.

Hobbes
9907.11

------------------
Got Trek?
Federation Starship Datalink

Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :

Erm...why? There are probably lots of Vice-Admirals in Starfleet...

------------------
http://frankg.dgne.com/
RB: "'Get a life' is a phrase heard a lot, though I have never known exactly what kind was implied. Seems a lot of shallowness and greed is the rule."
CS: "I guess that it means the kind of life led by the characters of 'Dawson's Creek' or 'The Simpsons'."

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

The actor who played Ross may just have been available, and the other not available.

------------------
WHO ARE YOU

Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :

Then what is the actress who played Necheya(sp) doing? Anyway, isn't Starfleet based on the British Navy or something?

------------------
"Its origin and purpose, still a total mystery."

-Dedication Plaque quote from the U.S.S. Odyssey

Posted by Mycon on :

Michael_T: Gene Roddenberry planned Starfleet as a non-military organisation (Yes, that's quite strange, but IMO a fact). I doubt that he had any existing military organisations in mind.

------------------
Mycon

Posted by Kosh (Member # 167) on :

I saw an interview where the Rod said that Starfleet was based on Navy traditions, I don't remember him naming a specific Navy.

------------------
WHO ARE YOU