V'ger on one hand and Borg on the other there is no doubt in my mind that they are the same, and...i have proof. If you have never read The Return then this is somewhat of a spoiler. $ $ $ $ $ $ $
Near the end of the book Spock mind melds with Picard and Kirk, From Picard and Kirks experiences with the Borg he gathers that V'ger was infact Borg in origin because he also mind melded with V'ger. So in other words what i am saying is: To those of you who still wonder where that peice of information is hidden read " The Return ".
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Uh...which is fine, if we were all that interested in what "The Return" said about the subject. Unfortunately (well, not in my opinion) that novel, like every other novel, remains far outside the domain of Things Which Really Happened.
And the idea that V'ger and the Borg are related is, in my opinion, an exceedingly bad one. It uselessly shoehorns two unrelated plots together to create one amalgamated mess.
This desire to connect everything to everything else is, I think, one of the greatest sins of the Star Trek novel.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
And the fact that novel writes frequently go into Look-What-Obscure-Facts-I-Found-In-The-Encyclopedia mode. Susan Wright does this so much, you forget what the story is about. Try "The Best and Brightest". One giant mess of little facts and cameos that the story is given so little space it's rushed and well, not very interesting.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Koy: I'm just going to gently point out to you that NOTHING in any Star Trek novel is proof of anything canon. Not even a novel written by a Star Trek producer (e.g. Jeri Taylor), or a novel "ghostwritten" by a former ST actor (e.g. Wiliam Shatner).
And Sol is correct. To equate V'ger with the Borg solely on the basis of them both being machine life-forms is ludicrous. Other than that, they have absolutely nothing in common.
Harry: "Not very interesting" wouldn't be my choice of words to describe TBATB. "A large pile of crap" seems more fitting to me.
[ May 30, 2002, 15:02: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Ooh, careful now. Some of your posts were a tad harsh, we don't want to hurt the poor little mite's feelings. . .
*pause*
Oh, wait a minute, yes we do. You complete and utter doughnut! 8)
Posted by koy'peled Oy'tio (Member # 796) on :
I understand your argument but i wish to believe that V'ger is in fact borg...unless you can point out a more likely species that sent Voyager back to it's creators effectivly completing it's mission of finding all there is to know about the galaxy. Read the fucking book before you judge the object of conversation, otherwise your opinion means nothing.
[ May 30, 2002, 17:14: Message edited by: koy'peled Oy'tio ]
Posted by The Ulcer Mongoose (Member # 239) on :
You are a twat. Read, or some shit. Maybe.
Posted by koy'peled Oy'tio (Member # 796) on :
would it make you feel better if i didnt use words with more than five letters
[ May 30, 2002, 17:18: Message edited by: koy'peled Oy'tio ]
Posted by The Ulcer Mongoose (Member # 239) on :
*snickers*
Posted by koy'peled Oy'tio (Member # 796) on :
then we have an understanding?
Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
Koy'please Banhim, I want to know what a Verg is. That is what the subject is. Tell me why you're talking about Borg and V'ger when the subject is Verg.
Aban RIne asked who to feel sorry for the most:
quote:Originally posted by koy'peled Oy'tio: The Defiant (rambles on about some junk)
Yeah, right
[ May 31, 2002, 14:08: Message edited by: The Defiant ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I'm not sure where this is supposed to be going, and I suspect it won't last long in any event, but to try and inject some politeness into your bitter world view, koy'peled Oy'tio, I have read the book in question, and even own a copy, though I hide it when company comes, or would if company ever came. (Though said copy is at my parent's house, not mine [such as it is], and I'm more than willing to let it stay there.)
quote: i wish to believe that V'ger is in fact borg
This is, of course, perfectly acceptable. We all have our own favorite versions of things that happened offscreen. However...
quote: unless you can point out a more likely species that sent Voyager back to it's creators effectivly completing it's mission of finding all there is to know about the galaxy
Gosh, I don't know, maybe the machine planet that was, you know, in the movie and stuff?
It's a big galaxy out there.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
Regarding "V'ger" and the Borg, variou messages went round and round on this very subject a while ago.
I still feel that there are too many discrepancies between the established Borg/history behavior and V'ger and the "living machines" to make this likely.
To reinterate my old points for the aforementioned thread...
quote: 1. As established elsewhere, the Borg were around long before Voyager 6 was luanched.
2. The Borg aren't living machines, they're cybernetic organisms.
3. V'ger has memories of its home planet, but it doesn't have an inkling about carbon units or their functioning. Unlikely if it were of Borg manufacture.
4. Spock relates that he "saw V'ger's planet." He mentions "unbelieveable technology" but he apparently got not an inkling of biological life.
5. Although it's just his opinion, Spock says the machine inhabitants "made Voyager 6 into all this" which implies V'ger was made as we saw it, which is wayyyyy beyond Borg technology as shown. (V'ger's consciousness is another matter entirely.)
6. Borg behavior is inconsistent with what V'ger's planet did for Voyager 6.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
The conclusion? V'Ger came from Cybertron.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
I always wanted to see the Borg assimilate the Daleks, whereupon the resulting Borgs become immobilized by their contradictory impusles and mechanically chant, "Ex-ter-min-ate! As-sim-i-late! Ex-ter-min-ate! As-sim-i-late!" Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
To Defiant...as for where "Verg" came from...a really bad combination og "V'Ger" and "Borg".
Posted by Ferg (Member # 828) on :
That's good to know, I thought he was talking about me!
Posted by koy'peled Oy'tio (Member # 796) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Defiant: Koy'please Banhim, I want to know what a Verg is. That is what the subject is. Tell me why you're talking about Borg and V'ger when the subject is Verg.
quote:Koy'please Banhim, from a different topic:
... you should feel sorry for The Defiant more...
Yeah, right.
I don’t know where to start with this one...
About the Verg/Ferg thing...I had no idea you were even a member, pure coincidence, but my apologies.
Defiant if your going to quote me, quote me correctly, use UBB and my actual quote like this
quote: The Defiant cause i actually do know how to Quote but it was too much work at the time...oh well
Kind of funny that my topic you tried to quote was about quoting. As for banning me that is up for them to decide not your stupid use of my name i'm sure you can find better alterations of it somewhere else.
[ May 31, 2002, 08:01: Message edited by: koy'peled Oy'tio ]
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
So you're just making random posts for spam, huh? Posted by koy'peled Oy'tio (Member # 796) on :
*Chaotica* But the little vermin fell for my devious deception ...MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
How come all you posts are either useless banter or just plain stupid topics such as this one. Granted this is the free world and you can say anything or do anything you want within the confines of the law. However for about 99% of all the posts you have made makes me think you are like some naturally high person who had somehow got onto Flare.
Posted by koy'peled Oy'tio (Member # 796) on :
*looking at the pathetic Defiant* Yeah i thought the same until he showed up.
Posted by Fedaykin Supastar (Member # 704) on :
Koy'please banhim
i also make useless posts yet am not the object of insult at this board, u know why? ...actually i dont know but who cares.
back to the V'Ger-Borg thing, MrNeutron already summarised why they arnt related (besides being in Trek) and remember 'The Return' isnt canon! haha
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
It was also written by Mr. Shatner, and we all know he isn't all that good about writing books. I mean "The Return" is just an excuse to get Kirk resurrected. An alliance between the Romulans and the Borg? Then a Defiant class ship wrecking havoc among Borg and Romulan shisp when the Defiant herself couldn't even take down one? It's an official Fanboy book, that's all it is.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
quote:Originally posted by Matrix: It was also written by Mr. Shatner.
My apologies for the parade-raining, but it, uh, wasn't.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Yes. From reading the books, I believe the only thing Shatner contributed to the novels was that God-awful love story between Kirk & Teilani. That, and his waxwork pose on the back covers.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
And yet I really, really enjoy what the Reeves-Stevenses did with "Prime Directive." Odd, that.
Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fedaykin Supastar: Koy'please banhim...
[OFFTOPIC]Whoohoo! It's catching on. [/OFFTOPIC]
Koy'please Bamnhim, what are you talking about? looks fine to me, that quote. The reason I didn't post your entire thing was that it was useless to what I was trying to say.
Koy again: Verg sucks. There. Change it to V'ger & Borg or something like that.
Snay and Matrix: Are you talking to Koy'please Banhim? Because if you are I agree with you totally.
Koy: Like what? Koy'banhim Charles? That works for me.
[ May 31, 2002, 14:15: Message edited by: The Defiant ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The Defiant, if you're really looking to call down a smackdown of biblical proportions on yourself, keep this up.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
If I had the power, both of them would be dangling over a lava pit by their toes! Take it to PMs, you fools.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
quote:if you're really looking to call down a smackdown of biblical proportions on yourself
I'd actually like to SEE that. Dibs on all concessional & marketing rights. Plus 20% of the door.
Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
OK, I at least am moving it to PM's like Snay said.Koy on the other hand, well, only he knows what he's gonna do.
I agree that it doesn't have to be the Borg. Even though it seems like Voyager found enough aliens to fill the Alpha Quadrant, there are still unexplored regions, but consulting some star charts I found somewhere the Gamma Quadrant is the Dominion, we all know the stuff in the Alpha Quadrant, and the rest of the Beta is the Borg, which is unlikeley, because the Romulans or Klingans would have run it to them by now. It could be the Bynars, which if I remember is unlikeley, and I havent seen 1001101 or whatever in a long time. The Gamma Quadrant is a possibility, because the race who did that could have been taken over by the Dominion, if you belive that all the GQ is the Dominion. Now what was I talking about? V'ger or something. I need to learn to stay on subject. Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Could be from another galaxy for all we know.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
This is where I throw up my hands in an expression of resignation.
Posted by koy'peled Oy'tio (Member # 796) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Defiant: OK, I at least am moving it to PM's like Snay said.Koy on the other hand, well, only he knows what he's gonna do.
I'm finished with the whole you scratch my back I'll scratch yours routine...if you have a problem with me Defiant that is fine with me send me pm's if you want, i probably won't read them. As for you post you should slow down with the run on sentences it really gets confusion by about the third line...any way here is a link to a somewhat canon galactic map from DITL
This argument over whose boss is really stupid considering that were both in the lower ranks of things here. Although you may have come later on to the flare you have held this argument with me well, and I commend you for it, however it was, after all on my part more of a tease, you took it seriously and I respect that. I hope that you and I can make amends and perhaps you will look back on this as a learning experience. You may in fact receive more spamming from others in this forum, but you have earned the respect of me. I hope that from this point on we may consider a truce. Although I may in fact enjoy some competition from time to time I believe that the most efficient use of our resources is peace. I believe this decision would be favored by all in this forum would, that is all.
Posted by The Ulcer Mongoose (Member # 239) on :
Also, Simon (to play the excessive familiarity games), please cut yourself and send your genetic material in the mail to my location. I will clone any army of Soltroopers, and we will rejoice.
Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
Truce.
I did lurk before I joined, but things were less chaotic. Thanks for the link. Makes me wonder where the hell I got that.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Man, and here I was waiting for the big TL Slap, or the even bigger CC Slam.....
In that non-canon off-shoot, V'Ger and the Borg were to have something to do with each other.... Thus their acceptance of Spock without proper assimilation, after his V'Ger mindmeld... Which is fine for that book, or series of books....
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
quote:Man, and here I was waiting for the big TL Slap, or the even bigger CC Slam.....
It'll come eventually when we have two new newbies who both think that he or she is the master of all.
Posted by The Ulcer Mongoose (Member # 239) on :
We do have one or two that think that they can outwit TheCapps, but efforts are silly.
Posted by Tahna Los (Member # 33) on :
At least this discussion is not degenerating into moron bashing. So it will stay open for now.
Any more bad words, and I'm reporting this thread to CC.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
so are they fighting over who sucks worse?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Not anymore, it seems. Now they're gonna have to share a totempole spot.
[ June 01, 2002, 01:56: Message edited by: Cartman ]
Posted by Matrix (Member # 376) on :
Yeah, a fight of the newbies... Not something you want to do if you are a newbie especially on a board that likes to scare newbies.
Posted by The Defiant (Member # 818) on :
Boy I learned THAT the hard way...sheesh. And Koy' whatever and me are at least, uh, ask Koy'.
PS: Matrix, I'm not having fun. They don't have an all-you-can-eat buffet and an indoor pool.
[ June 03, 2002, 07:59: Message edited by: The Defiant ]
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Oh, the humanity. Horrors. Horrors, I say.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Thanks for the link. Makes me wonder where the hell I got that.