posted
V'ger on one hand and Borg on the other there is no doubt in my mind that they are the same, and...i have proof. If you have never read The Return then this is somewhat of a spoiler. $ $ $ $ $ $ $
Near the end of the book Spock mind melds with Picard and Kirk, From Picard and Kirks experiences with the Borg he gathers that V'ger was infact Borg in origin because he also mind melded with V'ger. So in other words what i am saying is: To those of you who still wonder where that peice of information is hidden read " The Return ".
-------------------- "Explore New Worlds"
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Uh...which is fine, if we were all that interested in what "The Return" said about the subject. Unfortunately (well, not in my opinion) that novel, like every other novel, remains far outside the domain of Things Which Really Happened.
And the idea that V'ger and the Borg are related is, in my opinion, an exceedingly bad one. It uselessly shoehorns two unrelated plots together to create one amalgamated mess.
This desire to connect everything to everything else is, I think, one of the greatest sins of the Star Trek novel.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
And the fact that novel writes frequently go into Look-What-Obscure-Facts-I-Found-In-The-Encyclopedia mode. Susan Wright does this so much, you forget what the story is about. Try "The Best and Brightest". One giant mess of little facts and cameos that the story is given so little space it's rushed and well, not very interesting.
posted
Koy: I'm just going to gently point out to you that NOTHING in any Star Trek novel is proof of anything canon. Not even a novel written by a Star Trek producer (e.g. Jeri Taylor), or a novel "ghostwritten" by a former ST actor (e.g. Wiliam Shatner).
And Sol is correct. To equate V'ger with the Borg solely on the basis of them both being machine life-forms is ludicrous. Other than that, they have absolutely nothing in common.
Harry: "Not very interesting" wouldn't be my choice of words to describe TBATB. "A large pile of crap" seems more fitting to me.
[ May 30, 2002, 15:02: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I understand your argument but i wish to believe that V'ger is in fact borg...unless you can point out a more likely species that sent Voyager back to it's creators effectivly completing it's mission of finding all there is to know about the galaxy. Read the fucking book before you judge the object of conversation, otherwise your opinion means nothing.
-------------------- "Explore New Worlds"
Registered: Mar 2002
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The Defiant
Ex-Member
posted
Koy'please Banhim, I want to know what a Verg is. That is what the subject is. Tell me why you're talking about Borg and V'ger when the subject is Verg.
Aban RIne asked who to feel sorry for the most:
quote:Originally posted by koy'peled Oy'tio: The Defiant (rambles on about some junk)
Yeah, right
[ May 31, 2002, 14:08: Message edited by: The Defiant ]
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posted
I'm not sure where this is supposed to be going, and I suspect it won't last long in any event, but to try and inject some politeness into your bitter world view, koy'peled Oy'tio, I have read the book in question, and even own a copy, though I hide it when company comes, or would if company ever came. (Though said copy is at my parent's house, not mine [such as it is], and I'm more than willing to let it stay there.)
quote: i wish to believe that V'ger is in fact borg
This is, of course, perfectly acceptable. We all have our own favorite versions of things that happened offscreen. However...
quote: unless you can point out a more likely species that sent Voyager back to it's creators effectivly completing it's mission of finding all there is to know about the galaxy
Gosh, I don't know, maybe the machine planet that was, you know, in the movie and stuff?
It's a big galaxy out there.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Regarding "V'ger" and the Borg, variou messages went round and round on this very subject a while ago.
I still feel that there are too many discrepancies between the established Borg/history behavior and V'ger and the "living machines" to make this likely.
To reinterate my old points for the aforementioned thread...
quote: 1. As established elsewhere, the Borg were around long before Voyager 6 was luanched.
2. The Borg aren't living machines, they're cybernetic organisms.
3. V'ger has memories of its home planet, but it doesn't have an inkling about carbon units or their functioning. Unlikely if it were of Borg manufacture.
4. Spock relates that he "saw V'ger's planet." He mentions "unbelieveable technology" but he apparently got not an inkling of biological life.
5. Although it's just his opinion, Spock says the machine inhabitants "made Voyager 6 into all this" which implies V'ger was made as we saw it, which is wayyyyy beyond Borg technology as shown. (V'ger's consciousness is another matter entirely.)
6. Borg behavior is inconsistent with what V'ger's planet did for Voyager 6.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
The conclusion? V'Ger came from Cybertron.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I always wanted to see the Borg assimilate the Daleks, whereupon the resulting Borgs become immobilized by their contradictory impusles and mechanically chant, "Ex-ter-min-ate! As-sim-i-late! Ex-ter-min-ate! As-sim-i-late!"
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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