Overly Melodramatic, but that's the Wheat for you.
[ August 14, 2002, 17:40: Message edited by: Magnus de Pym ]
Posted by Colorful Cartman (Member # 256) on :
I am struggling to surpress my tears.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
the title is misleading. i thought it meant that Wesley was coming out of the closet.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Some might flame me for this, but I feel sorry for the guy, meaning I feel sorry for his disappointment. No matter what anyone says, no matter how iratating Wesley may have been, he was still a part, at least some part, of the Star Trek family, as are all the others that moved on to other things, Denise Crosby, Terry Farrell, Jennifer Lien.
I don't think there would be too many complaints if he had made a small, short cameo in the movie. I wouldn't have had a problem with it.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
That's a shame. What am I saying?! No, really. I feel bad for him. I mean, sure, we all hate Wesley Crusher. But that doesn't mean we have to hate Wil Wheaton. I suspect that playing The Boy went a long way toward screwing his career; after all, prior to getting on TNG he was in Stand By Me playing one of the two main characters, the other played by River Phoenix. Now, today, nearly 10 years after Phoenix dies, even after it came out that his whole eco-fiendly persona hid a copmplete druggie asshole, his star remains far higher than Wheaton's. I'm not saying that Wheaton could ever have been Phoenix, but all the same you have to wonder.
I wonder how Logan feels about it? After all, the opening scenes contain a lot of the fan-oriented stuff he enjoyed writing. . .
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Shouldn't there be a spoiler warning in the title?
Can anyone tell us what Wesley's scene in the movie about?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Wheaton's managed to carve out a strange niche of credibility for himself with his blog, at least among that small segment of the population that pays attention to blogs, which is probably smaller than the number of Star Trek fans that don't hate Wesley, but we have to take it where we find it.
Anyway, something for the DVD, I suppose.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I came into this thread guessing exactly what it was about, based on the title. I've been following some basic news about the movie, but avoiding real spoilers about anything other than the general plot. I've never been a fan of Wesley Crusher aside from one, maybe two episodes. And on the Net, it's easy to hate "the boy."
I came into this thread expecting to chuckle, to express sarcastic relief that the little snot-nosed brat wouldn't be appearing in the movie. For some reason, I decided to click the link and actually read Wheaton's entire message. And now, I feel sorry for the guy. And I'm actually sorry that Wesley won't be in the movie. Because despite all of the bad memories from the silly episodes where a 15-year-old boy would upstage the best and brightest of Starfleet, it still would have been a treat to see Wesley in the movie. I've stayed far away from any details about the plot of the movie, but I've gathered that Logan put a lot of effort to include treats for us long-time fans.
And I think that Wheaton's message made me finally realize that he's a real person, too. Some people have a very hard time separating the actor from the character. But no matter how I might feel about "the boy," it's still a shame that he had to be cut.
Enough rambling.
THREE HOURS??? Jeez, this would be one heck of a long movie if they left it as is. Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing a lengthened Trek movie for a change. Obviously that's not likely to happen given how movies are generally marketed -- not many people aside from die-hard Trekkers like us would be willing to sit through that long of a film. Nuts.
I just hope that that massive cuts that they're going to make (nearly a THIRD of the entire film) won't hack the story to death, to the point where there are odd jumps in location and action. And that the entire story doesn't seem to be a patchwork to fill in the missing scenes.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
A third? You'll be lucky. Prevalent Trek-marketing wisdom seems to regard any more than 90 minutes (i.e. half) as excessive; Inadequaterection was what, about an hour twenty, and left loads of potentially-good stuff on the cutting-room floor?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Even still, at 2 hours 12 minutes, it's the longest Trek movie. LotR is 2 hours 58 minutes, so they probably could have left everything in... Are all Logan's movies this long? I know Gladiator was lengthy, but what about his others?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I'm quite impessed with Berman actually, especially when it's pretty obvious that him and Wheaton used to not get on.
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
"He tells me that he has to call one of the other actors because they've suffered rather large cuts as well."
Grrr... how much you wanna bet that it was either Gates McFadden or LeVar Burton he called, and not Kate Mulgrew?
At least Sol System has a point... the cut scenes may give Paramount to finally treat us to a first-issue Trek movie DVD with lots of extras. Although I wouldn't have minded Nemesis being 2.5 hours...
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
So, does this mean that they cut the entire wedding reception scene? Does this mean Riker and Troi won't be married after all?
I have to agree w/ those who were looking forward to Wesley's appearance. I mean, he obviously wouldn't have the "The Boy" personality about him anymore. It'd be nice to have him canonically not fall off the face of the universe.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
"I've thought about this on and off for months, and I knew that if the movie was long, this scene, and maybe even this entire sequence, would have to go."
By "the entire sequence", he's probably talking about the wedding. I doubt they'll leave the whole thing out, since they've already mentioned it in interviews and such.
It's a shame they cut it. After all, whether you like it or not, he was still part of the family, like Red Admiral said.
The other cut scenes mentioned could also involve Guinan (she is in it, right?).
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Personally, the whole wedding thing is icky in my opinion, even minus the Black Horta of the family. I mean, the whole on-off Riker/Troi relationship should have ended ages ago, not dragged onto a conclusion of sappy "and they lived happily ever after".
Posted by Magenta Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Crap... now I feel bad for him too... and he's a half decent writer (though he needs to edit for spelling).
It wasn't the Boy that made me dislike Wil Wheaton... it was the fact that he got to kiss Ashley Judd. Then I saw him on The Weakest Link and that just sealed the deal.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Yeh I thought the same thing! But I laughed when he came onto Roxanne Dawson, and in a big way. And yeh, he got to kiss Ashley Judd as well. Fair play to him I suppose.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Y'know, I may be in the minority here, but I was really looking forward a lot to Wesley's cameo. I never really cared much for the character, but it would have been nice to see the entire TNG cast (excluding Yar, of course, but including Guinan and Wesley) on screen together one last time. (I'm really starting to fall in line with the idea that this will be the final TNG movie.)
And wow, speak for yourselves, but a three-hour Trek film would sooooooo rock IMO, providing that it was of at least decent quality. I can't fathom how they managed to cut an hour's worth of footage for Nemesis without leaving out some good scenes from the script. Damn!
And, I'm not holding out much hope for deleted scenes on the DVD. Look at Insurrection. There were plenty of cut sequences from that, and nothing. Hasn't our buddy Rick Berman stated for the record that he doesn't care for deleted scenes sections on DVDs, and that cut footage is procedurally destroyed after editing is complete? Damn him, the cocksucker. I love deleted scenes...
-MMoM Posted by Captain... Mike (Member # 709) on :
Wow.. this thread has proven that, contrary to popular belief, not all of us hate wesley. i realize that i was really looking forward to it too. and did he say he'd be in uniform?! *dies* i dont know why, but itd be pretty cool to see the Boy in the fleet again.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
I don't think anyone has a problem with a three-hour Star Trek film per se, we're just being realistic. Most first cuts of films come in at about three hours, it's from there that the editor starts working towards the finished product.
It's difficult to say right now what might stay in or not given all we have is the script published online, and there are major problems with that:
1. The whole opening sequence is heavily glossed over, presumably because they didn't know initially who they could get to appear.
- actually, I'm reminded over the planned TOS reunion they tried to write for Generations - they simply couldn't fit anyone in and do them justice in the time available. I'm surprised they didn't bear this in mind when planning this scene.
2. The rest of the story falls into three stages.
*SPOILERS BEYOND!!!*
*SPOILERS BEYOND!!!*
*SPOILERS BEYOND!!!*
*SPOILERS BEYOND!!!*
a) They go to the planet and find B9.
b) They get to Romulus and meet Shinzon.
c) They escape from Romulus, Shinzon comes after them.
. . . and each act has major pacing problems. The one thing I really hope they lose is Shinzon's infatuation with Troi. I mean, WHY?! It serves no purpose whatsoever apart from making sure they know this guy is evil. The fact she's now married seems to hardly come into it, and indeed Riker seems to concern himself more with the Viceroy than the weirdo who's mentally raping his wife.
Posted by ThoughtPyminal (Member # 480) on :
Unless it's Picard doing the bone dance with Troi in the trailer, I'd say they left that part in.
Meanwhile...I'd put Wil Wheaton in one of my movies. As an action star. I want a Wil Wheaton action figure with a Kung Fu grip.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I think the Wesley cameo would've been cool, if, and only if, we got some kind of explanation as to why he was there, when he got back, and what he's been doing all this time. Just having him stand there in a uniform and waiting for everyone to go, "HEY! There's Wesley! COOOOOOLLL!" would've really made me mad.
I would love a well written 3 hour Trek movie. I think it would be great. The reason that can't keep it that long, I would think, is because 1) theaters won't show it, and 2) people have short attention spans and tend to strain their limits at 2 hours. The two reasons kind of tend to feed on one another.
Posted by ThoughtPyminal (Member # 480) on :
I think two hours twenty minutes is about as long as I want to spend watching most movies without a break. When I watch the Godfather I have to stop it to go for a stroll after Micheal does the hit at the deli.
Even LOTR had me squirming a bit by the time it was over, mostly because I drank a monster pepsi in the first half hour of it...
The obvious answer to the time dilemma is to design movies with an intermission in them.
If the theatre would put a bit more thought into their presentations, they would probably make a killing during intermission, as well, and not just on snacks...
Going off on a tangent here, but wouldn't it be really nice if movie theatres also sold stuff like movie posters in the lobby? Wouldn't the natural selling place of most of the McFarlane toyline be AT a movie theatre? It would kick major butt to be able to buy a Freddie Kruger action figure as your walking away from Nightmare On Elmstreet 21: Freddie gets Fingered.
With so many great theatres becoming a thing of the past, it annoys the piss out of me that they're not even TRYING to bring in any merchandising capital. Jesus, you'd think that they'd figure out that the best time to sell kids toys is right after they see the movie they starred in. This applies for Big Kids, and their Angelina Jolie Fan Appreciation T-shirts, too...
Anyway. End of pointless tangent.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
I already knew he was going to be cut, but aren't you giving away to people that don't read spoilers that Wesley's not going to be in it by putting that in the thread's title? What good are the spoiler warnings?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I meant to comment on that, actually. Plus this has gone from Pseudo spoilers to actual spoilers now.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
If theaters sold action figures they would cost about seventy five dollars each. Want a poster? Two hundred dollars! They are crazy.
Posted by Magnus de Pym (Member # 239) on :
But, think of the opportunities for romance! You can buy your significant other a poster! Love will abound!
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Yes, UM, but you enjoy both genders, doubling your chances thast sooner or later, eventually, your approach might actually work.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
maybe someday he will find the right poster and the right boy/girl, and he can become "effective member".
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Don't want to contemplate about Wesley being cut out of Nemesis.
But about the movie-posters: in our local cinema they do sell movie posters. No big deal in the pricing either. Not more expensive than anywhere else. Movie-posters are alyways horrendously expensive, aren't they? Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
It's a shame IMO, even if a lot of fans like to say they hate him, he deserved to be in possibly the last TNG movie. I hope they put his scene on the DVD and that the other cameos are still there.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I agree that Wesley should have been in the movie! And as for him as part of Starfleet again....Heck, after the losses in the war with the Dominion, I'm sure he would have been welcomed back with open arms!
After all, we are supposed tobelieve that the Maquis crewmwmbers on Voyager would be allowed to join up?!? They were crimminals!
Anybody here know what scenes were cut from Insurrection? I'd have loved to see them returned to the DVD. ***Spoilers*** ...mabye the second wedding is between Picard and Angie?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Angie"? Like the Rolling Stones song?
And what second wedding?
Posted by The Mike Who Would Be Captain (Member # 709) on :
um.. Anij maybe?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Okay! Anji, not "Angie"! The hottie from insurrection!
Posted by Captain-class, Mike-variant (Member # 709) on :
ew. my. gawd.
Anij.
AH-NEEJ.
AAAAAAA. NEEEEEEJ.
A - N - I - J
even the characters in the sucky movie deserve some literacy from you.
and she's not a hottie. shes a tripped out old actress. Johnny Picard could do a lot better. Where's Kamala?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I thought she was hot too. I also saw her in an episode of Law and Order as a lawyer. She had long, straight hair and ooh, baby...
But hey... I've got a thing for (slightly) older women.
She's certainly better than that "handsome woman" Johnny tried to pick up at Starbase Earhart...
Kimala's probably still cooking dinner for that ugly Olrec of Alt guy (or whatever his name was) and praying for death.
Posted by Magnus de Pym (Member # 239) on :
This has ventured into uncomfortable territory.
Posted by Captain-class, Mike-variant (Member # 709) on :
i just didnt see how picard could fall for a chick that sits there and talks like.. she's.. done.. too.. much.. acid. he's slowing down in his old age. but then again, so is his movie franchise.
yeah i guess she looked all right. scary nose tho.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah...rating the Babes of Sci-Fi seems a little more suited to Trek BBS... Plus, I don't like discussing good looking women and Wesley in the same place...
Posted by Captain-class, Mike-variant (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Plus, I don't like discussing good looking women and Wesley in the same place...
Robin Lefler.
Posted by Eric Cartman (Member # 256) on :
And the female shapeshifter.
Grrr.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
My point exactly.
*Hatred...growing...again*
Posted by Cadet Sorak (Member # 874) on :
quote: ...he deserved to be in possibly the last TNG movie.
I think it probably is. Anyone seen the trailers? Between scenes the really big text: A Generation's Final Journey. Personally, I think it'll be kinda sad to see the TNG crew sail off into the sunset after a 7-series show and 3 movies. At the time, TNG was the longest running sci-fi program on TV.
Heck, Jimmy Kirk got 6 movies after a 3-season run!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Um... Kirk had seven movies. And TNG has four.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
Yeah, and TNG got more seasons, why then should they get more movies too?
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
i think they should go make voyager movies now!!! and 7 of nnie should g0 84ck 1n t1m3 4nd k155 7'p0L!!!!
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
You deserve to die PAINFULLY.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Mind you that's an intriguing mental picture (7of9 and T'Pol, not Reks dying painfully) Posted by Capped In Mic (Member # 709) on :
eh im imagining both
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
quote:Originally posted by Snay: You deserve to die PAINFULLY.
what's your address? i'm warming up the thrax.
quote:Originally posted by Capped In Mic: eh im imagining both
it's so nice to be appreciated.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
If this is indeed the final TNG movie then it will also be the final Trek movie!
Think about it, not a lot of fans would want to see a VOY movie, and DS9 - which many would like to see - seems VERY unlikely.
So what's left - Enterprise? That's still years from ending it's normal run. (I would guess they do seven seasons again.) And even if they decided to make one after that, it won't really be a Star Trek movie with them, now would it?
Posted by O Captain Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
meh i still think theyve got more up their sleeves than this.
even if B&B are obsessed with the concept of killing off 24th century Trek, and focusing on this Enterprise crap, they wont be in charge forever...
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
No. They are likely to be in charge in 7 years time though.
And, er, "obsessed with the idea of killing of 24th century Trek"? The non-logic there is making my nose bleed.
Posted by O Captain Mike Captain (Member # 709) on :
i'm just trying to fathom a reason why this would be the last movie.
im not saying thats the way things are (them trying to end 24th century stories), im saying thats an explanation that seems unlikely.
i think in three years we are going to be checking up on spoilers for number 11.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
You have gotten stranger, Michael.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
Why? I think Mike could be right. But I can't fathom right now what an 11 would be about - or what cast it would feature.
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