forget a DS9 movie, the novels theyve been putting together capture the spirit of the show incredibly, and the last four, the Mission Gamma series, have been incredible.
so far: Colonel Kira hasbeen excommunicated from the Bajoran faith because of her distribution of the heretical Ohalu prophecies. A new split of the Bajoran faith, the Ohalavaru has formed in protest as the selection of the new Kai is underway.
The prophecy has to do with the Avatar, who is the figure who will be born of Bajor to the Emissary. Kasidy Yates is alost ready to bear Sisko's child.
Meanwhile, Bajor was on the brink of joining the Federation, but First Minister Shakaar was brutally assassinated by a Trill security liaison moments before he signed the scroll. He had been showing signs of bizarre behavior, abandoning all peace efforts to the Cardassian Provisional Government and denying further aid to their starving worlds.
On the day of admission to the Federation, the Cardassians presented the Bajorans with a gift: The last four lost Orbs, found in a secret bunker in the ruins of Cardassia.
Now we find out why: Shakaar had been posessed by alien parasites, the ones from 'Conspiracy.' For whatever reason, they needed to have Bajor join the Federation for whetever they were planning.
And at the end of the book, the missing Jake Sisko and Kai Opaka were found by the Defiant aboard Weyoun's cruiser!!! Sisko is on the cover of the book that'll be out next year, Unity.. the tenth anniversary of DS9 is underway!
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I've only read the first two Avatar books, the Section 31 DS9 book, and the DS9 Gateways crossover book so far, but I like what I've been reading. Good stuff (although not as good as my version of events after DS9 in the Star Trek Legacy fanfic I never got around to developing... )
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Woah!
I never had any interest in reading the DS9 Relaunch series, for several reasons. First, I felt that DS9 was basically over and buying the books would be a lame attempt to wring more money out of the series concept. Second, because so many of the original characters were gone -- Sisko, Worf, O'Brien, Odo -- I really didn't care that much to see newcomers replace them.
But this sounds... interesting. And I notice that Weyoun has come back -- again. Big surprise there. (What's their excuse, though?)
Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
the amount of stuff they pulled out of thir hats in the 4 Mission: Gamma books is amazing..
Elias Vaughn is a great character, probably my favorite in Trek rite now.
The whole Mission Gamma concept was to split up the crews, with all of the Starfleet crew (Vaughn, Dax, Bashir, Nog, Shar, Pryn Tenmei and Sam Bowers) in the Gamma Quadrant exploring and dealing with their own situations, while the Bajorans and others (Kira, Ro, Quark, Kasidy Yates, Taran'atar, Vedek Yevir, Treir) dealing with the Bajoran Admission thing. All the ups and downs with Shar's family, Ro & Quarks budding romance, the presence of Gul Macet and Natima Lang from Cardassia, and the Jake mystery have been fueling things. now that Garak popped back up, as well as the O'Briens and the Joe Sisko on Earth subplot, and now a new WEyoun in the Gamma Quadrant. He was just a bit part, a new Weyoun clone in the hemmed in Dominion.
I'm just floored.
Add the 'Conspiracy' parasites.. theyre going to be mopping up for a while. And now Jake is heading home, with Kai Opaka.
The Trill who killed Shakaar is Hiziki Gard.. the previous host of the Gard symbiont is the one who killed Joran Dax... boh!
Oh, and plus the Defiant just encountered a Borg crash site. Boh!
BTW, this isnt as much a 'lets milk the franchise' thing to me, because they are tying up loose ends left and right. and introducing new ones.. basically a lot of stuff that didnt make sense as on WYLB does now..
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"...Ro & Quarks budding romance..."
Ro? As in Laren? As in the bitchy Bajoran ensign?
Quark? As in the Ferengi bartender?
Ew.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Good GOD! I already knew that Ro Laren was in the story... but a romance with her and Quark??? That's more than disgusting. That's simply horrifying.
The "Conspiracy" aliens return? Random one-off old characters? The Borg? God, this sounds like a fanboy's wet dream!
I have just lost any interest I might possibly have had in this story.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
you don't like wet dreams, MinutiaeMan? come on, dude, it's just a little nocturnal emission.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I just finished Cathedral the other day. I'm going to have to pick up Lesser Evil soon! I shouldn't have read Mike's spoilers
But I'm sure I'll enjoy it all the same. The next book out, Rising Son, features Jake's journey and his finding Opaka. Unity looks to be pretty great. Is Sisko returning? There must be a reason for his being on the cover...
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by EdipisReks: you don't like wet dreams, MinutiaeMan? come on, dude, it's just a little nocturnal emission.
Well, they're pretty messy...
You know what I mean!
Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
you know, if someone had said they were bringing those two gimmicks to the table (the 'Conspiracy' bugs and the Borg) i would have been a little put off too.. but after reading the book, i gotta say it works.
The Borg are used as a plot device rather than a nemesis.. think 'I, Borg' .. in fact the scenario is much the same, except the consequences are much more horrific.
And the bugs? again, a plot device to explain why the convoluted political machinations of the DS9 TV series must continue.. its being used to disrupt the stability.. everyone assumed Bajor and Cardassia and the Federation would follow the same path, this has thrown a wrench into the works.. now its brought all sorts of new issues to the table.
and yeah, a good well written story about characters i miss and new characters i adore is kind of a wet dream, especially since i cant remember reading any trek books i actually get interested in in the past decade or so. when these are on the shelf next to the bland TOS rehashes and some voyager nonsense, ill take these.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I can think of far more interesting ways to "gum up the works" than introducing evil mind control aliens.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
yeah, like evil mind control aardvarks.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike XXIII: Wow! I just finished Lesser Evil.
so far: Colonel Kira hasbeen excommunicated from the Bajoran faith because of her distribution of the heretical Ohalu prophecies. A new split of the Bajoran faith, the Ohalavaru has formed in protest as the selection of the new Kai is underway.
The prophecy has to do with the Avatar, who is the figure who will be born of Bajor to the Emissary. Kasidy Yates is alost ready to bear Sisko's child.
quote:
Meanwhile, Bajor was on the brink of joining the Federation, but First Minister Shakaar was brutally assassinated by a Trill security liaison moments before he signed the scroll.
Ugh fanboyish
quote: He had been showing signs of bizarre behavior, abandoning all peace efforts to the Cardassian Provisional Government and denying further aid to their starving worlds.
On the day of admission to the Federation, the Cardassians presented the Bajorans with a gift: The last four lost Orbs, found in a secret bunker in the ruins of Cardassia.
Even more Fanboyish
quote: Now we find out why: Shakaar had been posessed by alien parasites, the ones from 'Conspiracy.' For whatever reason, they needed to have Bajor join the Federation for whetever they were planning.
UUUUUGHHHHHH! WAY TOO FANBOYISH ("wouldn't it be cool if those aliens from Conspiracy came back!?!")
quote: And at the end of the book, the missing Jake Sisko and Kai Opaka were found by the Defiant aboard Weyoun's cruiser!!!
Woah, and would Bariel, Ro Laren, Sito Jaxa, Morn's Mother and a crate load of Yamok sauce be there as well!?!
*REAL-ly*
quote: Sisko is on the cover of the book that'll be out next year, Unity.. the tenth anniversary of DS9 is underway!
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Er, while I'm all up for the criticism and the mockery and, while we're at it, the implied self-hatred, I confess to not seeing how assassinations and orbs count as "fanboyish."
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
I've never been a continuity fetishist, but that's what these stories do, and they do it well. They provide links to past Trek, and a continuing story running into the future. And they're damned well well-written.
And anybody who disagrees is a Pakled.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
Takes one to know one, Robert.
Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
i also see nothing fanboyish about it, with the exception of the Weyoun cameo.. and even that wasnt far fetched.. he is a rather common clone.
i do see snobby elitism about interpreting the events of a book you havent read as fanboyish. unexpected adventures will continue happening, even after the end of a series. the assumption that everyone on Bajor would sit down and have afternoon tea, with no outside interaction, for the rest of eternity since they were no longer the focus of a weekly series is what is dumb. the things that are happening ion the novels are pretty much the same kind of events that most of TNG and DS9 were about. Or do you think that filmed DS9 & TNG were fanboyish too? or do you just have no respect for Trek if it isnt filmed? i find Mission Gamma and even New Frontier far more entertaining that Enterprise or Voyager.
i think the new novels would be fanboyish is they received the new Annihilator-class U.S.S. Defiant NCC-74205-B as their ship of choice, equipped with 15 quantum torpedo tubes, transphasic ablative armor from the future,the ability to launch 60 fighter vessels and slipstream drive, commanded by a time traveling duplicate of Sisko who received optic blast power from the Prophets to fight the pah-wraiths. And then Khan emerges from the Mutara nebula after being thrown into a Genesis warp.
That would be fanboyish. Picking up threads from old stories that could be resolved in an interesting manner is actually a thing called 'good writing'.. hard to recognize these days, but there is some out there.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike XXIII: i think the new novels would be fanboyish is they received the new Annihilator-class U.S.S. Defiant NCC-74205-B as their ship of choice, equipped with 15 quantum torpedo tubes....the ability to launch 60 fighter vessels
oh, you mean the Akira class
Posted by Solommagnus de Pym (Member # 239) on :
To be more fanboyish, it'd be an Akira refit. So that it has special this or special that. Most likely a sexy first officer who doesn't wear clothing.
Posted by EdipisReks (Member # 510) on :
i would watch a show that had a sexy first officer who wore no clothing. it could be on Showtime, with a TV-14 rating.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: Er, while I'm all up for the criticism and the mockery and, while we're at it, the implied self-hatred, I confess to not seeing how assassinations and orbs count as "fanboyish."
Well the orbs aren't... but having a Trill assassin and Having Shakaar Edon assassinated.
Oh and then I go on to read that Ro is INDEED in it!! WHAT!?! And The BORG. Gawd! Next we'll have Hugh (3rd of 5) Admiral Janeway and Captain Sulu (cause he's probably still not dead for some reason). Then we get a Shatner-novel cross-over and Along comes a 160 year-old McCoy and Spock with Sela and The Romulan Commander in some intergalactic menage a trois. Then In bursts Kirk with a Holographic Uhura who gets with The Doctor from Voyager who is the Ambassador to Kzin, where Neelix appears through an Iconian gateway while Deanna searches for her Mother in a Risan Sex-colony where she finds Jadzia alive and well with amnesia and no trill. Scotty and her are de facto husband and wife.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I realise what annoys me with it. Yes, it's great that they can keep the stories going but DS9 wasn't about having a token return of a character or race. They appeared for a Reason otherwise the producers wouldn't have dealt with the idea.
Having Ro Laren, and Kai Opaka and more Trill than you can poke a stick at is pretty silly - it's a big universe to play in. Why not choose another race and new characters. That wouldn't have been as bad but to put the assassination down to the CONSPIRACY ALIEN and now you're saying the BORG appear is just well... ugh. It's too far-fetched and too fanboyish. "Ooooh wouldn't it be cool if those alien parasites from Conspiracy returned!?! Or the BORG came and wooped some ass!?!"
I feel the best explanation for NO BORG - ANYWHERE - was given in the First DS9 novel "The Seige". The Wormhole was playing up... a cube followed a ship through it and was pulverised. The DS9 sensors only got a split second glimse of it before the ship was in little pieces. This would have told that collective to stay away from this 'anomaly' as it was not in their best interests to go through. Thus they never go near it again. Problem solved. No need for Borg to turn up on DS9.
Andrew
Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
and you cite a Peter David novel.. FANBOYISH. the Borg mention in 'The Siege' was the most bizarre fanboyish moment of the entire novel series, as is most of David's other work.
FYI, the Borg went nowhere near the wromhole or Bajor. they were crashed in the Gamma Quadrant. Like i said, it was a pretty straight plot lift from I, Borg: They found Borg in trouble, they had to take pains over what to do about it. .. you are hardly in a position to condemn it.. you didnt even read the book. .. It wasnt a fanboyish THREE CUBEz DESTROY DEEP SPAEC 7 AND THEN THE DEFINAT HAS TO BLAST THEM WIHT TEH QUANTOPRS. Thats Peter David-ish. (And, yes, i love David's novels even though they are kind of retarded like that at times)
BTW, I hate when the novel series introduces far fetched new races that have nothing to do with the actual Trek universe. I prefer books like these that take concepts that were misused, or underused, and utilize them. I'd much rather see a little more internal conflict on Bajor and some Cardassian problems and clarification of what the Trill are all about, than to have the Yuuzhan Vong come in and start eating people.
Instead of having another retort about whether or not the books suck or not, i suggest you read the books or drop the subject, because your commenting about something you know very little about.
[ November 01, 2002, 10:40: Message edited by: CaptainMike XXIII ]
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
WHERE IS THE TREK LOVE PEOPLE?!
Someone give Siggy directions to the Trek orgy, while they're at it.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"UUUUUGHHHHHH! WAY TOO FANBOYISH ('wouldn't it be cool if those aliens from Conspiracy came back!?!')"
Well, considering that the "Conspiracy" aliens were intended to return from the time the episode was originally written, I guess that was written by fanboys, too, eh?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike XXIII: Instead of having another retort about whether or not the books suck or not, i suggest you read the books or drop the subject, because your commenting about something you know very little about.
Hey Mike... eat me.
Um, maybe the term "FANBOY" was bandied about a little carelessly, but you know what I mean. Ro Laren, Kai Opaka, The Borg, the Conspiracy Aliens, Trill Assassins, Shakaar dead, etc. etc. ALL turning up in the one (or few) books - It's NOT VERY REALISTIC. Or true to DS9.
The desperation that appears in a poster when they have to attack the 'person'. Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
and I think its perfectly realistic.
like I said, until you read it, you're just criticising something you know nothing about. And I didnt attack you.. i suggested that you look into what you are so vehemently arguing, because its obvious you dont know jack about some of the things you said. its hypocritical
I don't criticise Andromeda, because I've never watched a single second of it. I have no idea what the show actually looks like onscreen. it would be preposterous for me to follow the shows fans around and beat them about the head with my thoughts on a show i've never watched.
it would make me a big asshole, no?
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote:Having Ro Laren, and Kai Opaka and more Trill than you can poke a stick at is pretty silly - it's a big universe to play in. Why not choose another race and new characters.
Because it's a FRICKIN' DEEP SPACE NINE book, perhaps? Hello, McFly! NOT A NEW SERIES! Now, what characters and races figure prominently in DS9? SURPRISE!
1. Ro Laren is a major new character in the DS9 relaunch. She's Odo's replacement. She's also a Bajoran, which makes it apropos to have her on a Bajoran-run station. There's nothing fanboyish about it.
2. Opaka is a Bajoran. Her reappearance ties up a loose end from early DS9 days.
3. The Conspiracy aliens are another 'loose end.'
4. Tying up loose ends is hardly fanboy material.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Actually, I'd argue that loose-end tying is an almost exclusively fanboyish pursuit. Which I love, being a fanboy. But, yeah.
And Ro should probably be dead.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
So, no Tom Riker or Sito Jaxa (yet)? 8)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I don't need to have READ the books to give an opinion on how it SOUNDS or how it fits into the meshwork of DEEP SPACE NINE.
Opaka was dealt with in Battle Lines.
Fine you want to tie up loose ends or bring back a character or a race. DON'T do about 50 of these things in a few books. IT'S TOO UNREALISTIC!! They wouldn't even do that in the series. You don't see what I'm getting at.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
To play the devil's advocate here (I'm not exactly a fan of ST novels...) if you wanted to get something that gives the exact experience of a DS9 episode, why not go out and watch an episode of DS9. No matter what, a book is not going to replicate that experience, and more importantly, it shouldn't. The whole point of a book, is to investigate issues in greater detail and with more flexibility, than a filmed episode.
Now whether ST novels have taken the correct approach is debatable, but using filmed episodes as a benchmark, is perhaps less than useful.
Perhaps the real issue here, is the fact that ST really has no re-planned story arc. When an episode finishes, the writers usually have tied up all the necessary story lines, and have said all that they want to say. Thus when a previously introduced race or character is re-introduced, it sticks out like a sore thumb because the purpose of the re-introduction will by definition be contrived and perhaps gratuitous. i.e. fanboy-ish.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
But to have about 50 of these 'threads' scattered from throughout the 4 series included in only 4 books set over a certain amount of time sounds way too contrived, whether you've read the book(s) or not.
Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
well first off, there arent 50 of anything.
and the best deep space nine episodes are the ones that combined a series of seemingly random old ideas and meshed them through a story.
did anyone ever think we'd see the forgotten Empok Nor station, the 'Spock's Brain' corpse-controller, the Vorta from the six-parter, and Quark's cousin Gaila again? no.. the 'The Magnificent Ferengi' mustve been pretty damn disappointing to you. i dont think any of those plot points stuck out like sore thumbs, they moved along an enjoyable story.
and Opaka wasn't 'dealt with' in any final manner.. she was left in an open ended plot that seemed to beg revisiting.. just like the ending of a certain TNG episode where they revealed the enemies were sending a homing beacon.
the reason Opaka was 'dealt with' is because the producers saw the pilot and hated the look of the actress they chose to play the character, so they decided to remove her from the show. not because the character was bad, or the idea needed to be done, but simply because of the aesthetics of their filmed production.
Novels are a perfect place to pick up concepts, characters and idea that were left out of the shows because of hollywood constraints like timing, casting, budget and the like.
unrealistic? i'm not going to touch that one... we're talking about Star Trek here, after all. the events in the DS9 novels are more realistic that most filmed Voyager when it comes to character motivations, adherence to logical military and political story ideas and actions. realism in Star Trek is a touchy subject, i wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike XXIII:
did anyone ever think we'd see the forgotten Empok Nor station, the 'Spock's Brain' corpse-controller, the Vorta from the six-parter, and Quark's cousin Gaila again? no.. the 'The Magnificent Ferengi' mustve been pretty damn disappointing to you. i dont think any of those plot points stuck out like sore thumbs, they moved along an enjoyable story.
There's a bit of a difference for picking these things up to use in a comedy episode, and uses them all in a Major Dramatic Storyline.
Plus, I'd have been quite happy not to see the Vorta from "Rocks and Shoels" (sp?) again. His first appearce was great. His reappearence ruined his character.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"His reappearence ruined his character."
Well, they killed him, reanimated him, and left him forever running his head against a wall. I'd say that's a good way to ruin any character.
Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
i wonder if he was still there, running into the wall, when Nog and the SCE went to Empok Nor to for spare reactor cores in Avatar and Abyss Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Dukat probably removed what was left of him before "Covenant"
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I just finished reading Lesser Evil myself and was quite impressed. A little disappointed that it was such a short book compared to the rest of the Mission Gamma novels, perhaps. And I hate cliffhanger endings that won't get resolved until January! Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
ive spent so much time defending this series, that i havent gotten around to criticizing the book here.
i was also disappointed with the length, especially since all the parts that lead into the next novels seemed so rushed, specifically:
after Second Minister Asarem's swearing in, i thought for sure we'd be back to her but the story moves away from her very quickly,
and the quick denoument to the Gamma situation seemed forced, what with Weyoun maknig only a couple of comments about the motion of the entire Idran star system to lie at the wormhole terminus..
what happened with Macet? they left him lying in the corridor with Quark. he's the key to knowing how many more are infected, and his illness seems to be a ruse to allow his parasite to be discovered.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Do they notice that he's Dukat with a beard!?! Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
yes, that was one of the most hilarious parts .. it was back in the Gateways crossover that he first popped up, he was offering to help with an exacuation and Kira almost had the Defiant open fire on him because she thought he was Dukat returned from the grave.
He's Dukat's cousin, by the way. He seemed like a good guy, but i guess he's had the parasite gill sticking out of his neck the whole time.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I had an interesting thought about Macet. What if a parasite decided to hop inside him, but they're incompatible with Cardassian physiology? Or, it's like Londo's watcher and when he gets sufficiently drunk on kanar, he can put it to sleep, as it were, and do what he wants?
Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
yeah weve got to wait and see why he was sick in the hallway
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
That is an idea with the Conspiracy aliens... what if - not succeeding with the Federation - they try to take over another 'power' in the Quadrant?
It wasn't just humans who were targeted was it? There was that Vulcan admiral with the brown hair.
Posted by CaptainMike XXIII (Member # 709) on :
this is why theyre getting a hardcover out of it..
apparently, the goal of the conspiracy aliens was to a) make sure Bajor joined the Federation and to b) foster animosity between Cardassia and Bajor. there was no clue in the book how these happenings would advance their agenda, or what that agenda might be.. but the chilling line by one of the possessed is that humanoids arent the object of their war, just the playing field. whatever that means.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
The war is between the Trill symbionts and the "Conspiracy" parasites. Humanoids are the playing field. Remember how Girani said that Shakaar's body contained the neurotransmitter that the Trill use? It was mentioned that the parasites and the symbionts are the same species. Also, Montenegro said to Kira that the Trill symbionts aren't as benign as they may seem.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Mabye the symbionts started out as parasites and some developed into symbionts. No way natural selection allows blind armless, legless soft bodied creatures to survive unaided and to develop symbiosis with what (as sentient bipeds) must have been the planet's dominant predator. Remember two things: 1.) We've never seen a symbiont that was young or nor previously joined. 2.) The "main" parasite from Consparisy was located in Remmic's stomach area like a Trill Symbiont and not up in his neck/brainstem.
I really think all the new DS9 books have been great, but I hope they avoid future crossovers: the Gateways storits (with DS9's exception) really sucked and made the spooky legendary Ikonians into total pussies. Plus you had to blow $25 for the hardcover last part!
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