When I went to my local Wal-Mart to pick it up I noticed that it seemed to only be a single disk. I thought it was going to be a double disk SE, like they did with parts 1-4. What seemed odd was that the back said it has all the bonus material like the other double disk editions. So if any of you have all ready bought it please let me know what's going on.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I thought it was going to be the double-disc too. I'm getting used to all those Director's Edition ... luckily, I caught myself before I bought the PAN&SCAN EDITION!
The DVD lists as having:
Director's Commentary Exclusive Commentraries (New Frontiers: David Baird on directing Nemesis) (Bold Vision of the Final Frontier) (Star Trek Family's Final Journey) (Red Alert! Shooting the Action) 7 Deleted Scenes Photo Gallery Widescreen V. enhanced for 16:9 TVs English Subtitles Dolby Digital: -Eng. 5.1 surround -Eng. Dolby surround -French Dolby Surround
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I'd like to know if the deleted scenes can be integrated into the flow of the movie, personally.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I'm guessing there will be a second disk - if only to recoup lost moneys from the movie.
I read an article at trektoday.com I think where Berman says "I don't like Special Editions" or some such shite. Probably because it'd show off what huge, gaping mistakes he made. The article also said the director had already done the commentary. So I reckon they are doing the old trick of releasing a 'lesser version' and then doing a bigger version in a few months.
And about the integrated scenes - there is some special term they use when the cut scenes are spliced back into the run of the film. I don't reckon they will be.
When did the SE for ST:IV come out? I'm still waiting for it in Australia. It sucks how there will be no SE for ST:V will there? Or is it that Shatner was just denied any form of 'director's cut'/extra shooting'?? It think it's the one film along with TMP that needs that sort of treatment.
Are they going to have Generations and Insurrection DVDs with the reels and reels of film they viciously chopped from the movies spliced back in?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
I just watched the "New XO" scene. For it to work, the end of the movie would have to be chopped up a bit. The scene begins immediately AFTER the scene where Riker requests permission to disembark, and the scene continues to the Enterprise warping away. So, the stuff with B4 would have to be cut.
And y'know what? I like that. I like the XO scene much better than the ending incorporated with the film. It flows better, plus, we get to see our TNG crew continuing with new officers -- a nice time of healing and renewal, what with Data's death, and Riker & Troi departing. I heard that Crusher was leaving too, but didn't see anything in the movie to support this.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Why would everyone be pretty much leaving? It's only really Riker and Troi because they are now married and Will had decided to finally accept his own Command.
Did they cut the scene where Worf says the diplomat life wasn't for him? I want him to stay on Q'Onos.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
How much more "special" do you want? Aside from a commentary track or two and deleted scenes, most of the rest tends to be filler, unless the film is special in some way. Nemesis has way more included than any of the other TNG films. I highly doubt there's another Nemesis release in the works. (On vanilla DVD, that is. We'll no doubt get an HD-DVD one, or a Blu-Ray one, or whatever the next media standard is.)
As far as the re-release of the films already on DVD goes, last I heard "special editions" for at least V and VI are pretty much a sure thing.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Ugh, I'm not buying V if nothing will be done with it, might as well stick with the original version I have of it...
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:Why would everyone be pretty much leaving? It's only really Riker and Troi because they are now married and Will had decided to finally accept his own Command.
Not everyone. But half the cast. Let's see, we've got: Picard, Riker, Data, LaForge, Worf, Troi, and Crusher.
Data's dead. Riker and Troi are gone. Cut lines may have indicated Crusher was going. In any case, half of the TNG crew is gone, and the XO scene was, to my mind, a good way to end, with knowing that our lost comrades would be replaced, and that the Enterprise would go on, with a good deal of our beloved cast replaced.
See?
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
I bought my copy of the DVD today. Apparently some copies come with a CD-ROM containing a copy of the original Star Trek: Nemesis website, with trailers and the rotating iPix of the Romulan Senate and everything. My copy, unfortunatly, did not (all the Fullscreen versions seemed to have it though...).
The 7 deleted scenes are not integrated with the movie, they stand on their own with brief descriptions given by Stewart, Berman, and Baird as to why they were cut. The main reason that the scenes are not able to be put it: They have no CGI. One can clearly see the green screen through the windows/viewscreen in a few of the deleted scenes. No attempts to add stars or anything.
Berman did allude to Crusher leaving to join Starfleet Medical in one of the interview bits on the DVD. I do remember this from the original script myself.
However, my favorite part of the DVD is the way they handled the menus. VERY good stuff, CGI flying around the Enterprise, Argo shuttle, and Scimitar, all the Reman "computer screen" effects around it, little cut scenes for your selections, close ups of the Scimitar and Enterprise. Very well handled.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:The main reason that the scenes are not able to be put it: They have no CGI
This isn't true in terms of the "New XO" scene -- it's even been scored. The only problem with it seems to be that the image is a bit white-washed. It also supports the Crusher has left theory, since otherwise I believe she would've been on the Bridge with Worf & LaForge.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: I thought it was going to be the double-disc too. I'm getting used to all those Director's Edition ... luckily, I caught myself before I bought the PAN&SCAN EDITION!
The DVD lists as having:
Director's Commentary Exclusive Commentraries (New Frontiers: David Baird on directing Nemesis) (Bold Vision of the Final Frontier) (Star Trek Family's Final Journey) (Red Alert! Shooting the Action) 7 Deleted Scenes Photo Gallery Widescreen V. enhanced for 16:9 TVs English Subtitles Dolby Digital: -Eng. 5.1 surround -Eng. Dolby surround -French Dolby Surround
It has all those features, but it isn't a SE...that comes out later.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
quote:Originally posted by Omega: I'd like to know if the deleted scenes can be integrated into the flow of the movie, personally.
No.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What ever was cut - it was still a pretty piss-poor 'finale' to the TNG crew. I would have been happy for them to leave it at All Good Things... if this was going to be their last film. The film was not good. I didn't spoil ANYTHING for myself this time. I didn't spoil anything for Insurrection - it wasn't the best either - but it was a damn sight better than Nemesis. I saw that movie 3 times - I saw Nemesis once. How did I put it in another thread - or was it this one... hmm... I can't remember but it - oh it wasn't a very INTELLIGENT film. It was quite insulting. It had more Trek re-hash than a season of Voyager. It was just a complete "Kahn" wannabe. Everyone has pointed various plot points out for the movie - but I think it's not individual things about the movie - it's the whole thing. There was no sense of adventure - there was just nothing. There was no heart. Data's "death" was about as hollow as the Android was human. Data had a heart - even if it pumped bio-fluid around his body - but we never saw it. A big shame. We never really got any characterisation. Nothing. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier had more characterisation - the McCoy/Father scene is quite a heavy scene.
I think Nemesis take's Trek V's wooden spoon. It's only failing was REALLY it's lack of budget to realise it's special effects - especially for the ending. Surprising considering how well Trek 4 went for Paramount.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
quote:No.
Again, I disagree. Although the XO scene is whitewashed, both the score and the CGI are finished for it. If you cut out the last Picard/B4 scene, the XO scene would go right after the scene between Picard and Riker in the ready room. IMO, this was a much better ending for the film.
quote:It was quite insulting. It had more Trek re-hash than a season of Voyager. It was just a complete "Kahn" wannabe. Everyone has pointed various plot points out for the movie - but I think it's not individual things about the movie - it's the whole thing. There was no sense of adventure - there was just nothing. There was no heart. Data's "death" was about as hollow as the Android was human. Data had a heart - even if it pumped bio-fluid around his body - but we never saw it. A big shame.
I must disagree! I think Data's death had a lot of feeling to it. Geordi and Data's last look, the expression on Picard's face when he knew what Data was going to do ... Data DID have a heart, and that's why he did what he did.
I do agree with much of what you say, though, Andrew. Check out my "Nemesis according to Snay" thread. I've been working out how I would have rewritten Nemesis if I'd had the chance, and I might do a rather involved storyline of it in that thread ...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I agree Data DOES have a heart - except they cheapened Data's sacrfice by making it a complete copy of Spock's sacrifice in The Wrath of Kahn.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by darkwing_duck1: It has all those features, but it isn't a SE...that comes out later.
The ad for the Nemesis DVD that aired during Enterprise said it was the "special edition" that was out, but nothing bout it being any more than one disk nor have I heard anything more being added to the disk than what was listed above (ie. commentary, deleted scenes, interviews).
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Andrew,
I don't get what you mean. If you mean, by leaving such a gaping window to bring Data "back", I agree. However, if you mean how he died, I disagree. I would prefer Data die in a blaze of glory then be attacked by an oil slick, or done in by Pa'wraiths in a Bajoran chapel!
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Yes, they cut the movie way too damned much. By removing the Data-Picard conversation over wine about friends moving on, they chopped a large bit of the heart of the movie right out. Then, they did it again with the Picard-Troi conversation about Shinzon. And last but not least, we lost the Darwin "how far we've come" reference, which besides being funny was a perfect Trek moment.
It's those sort of cuts that utterly ruined the film for many fans, I'd wager. It's what made this one lack heart compared to the others.
That having been said, though, I don't mind the removal of the Captain's seat-belt scene, or Madden's disappearance. He was a goober, and the seat-belted Picard looked like a baby in a carseat (especially given the size of the chair). It was a good idea executed in a retarded fashion.
Plus, I much prefer the ending as-is . . . it gives a happy-ending feel without being silly at all . . . it's deeper than the seat-belt scene even gets close to.
My only other issue along those lines would be the departure of Will Riker. These men have served together for 15 years through thick and thin, comments about family are weaved throughout the film, and what do they do? They shake hands. Men hug, too, you know . . . just not in front of the Klingons.
I'd have happily dealt with a movie longer than two hours if those scenes had been in. The movie as it stands is 116 minutes . . . would 130 have been such a terrible thing?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
No.
The least they could have done was to handle the ending of this movie a little better, moreso in the fashion of ST6. Sure we got resolution with Data, Riker and somewaht Picard, but I really don't recall seeing much of Crusher, Worf, Troi or LaForge in the last few minutes of the movie. They could have at least did something similiar to what they did in ST6, and gave the WHOLE crew some sort of bittersweet moment for an ending (outside their moment of silence) but moreso something more uplifting that 'life goes on' for an ending (which sorta covered with Data and Riker, but not the REST of the crew). Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Guardian, you nailed it perfectly without me having to type a damn book here. Thanks! Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: Andrew,
I don't get what you mean. If you mean, by leaving such a gaping window to bring Data "back", I agree. However, if you mean how he died, I disagree. I would prefer Data die in a blaze of glory then be attacked by an oil slick, or done in by Pa'wraiths in a Bajoran chapel!
Oh I agree there - but I still think what he did was tempered by the rest of the movie - and the actions that led to HIS action. PLUS the obvious TWOK analogue.
I'm sure there are OTHER ways to send a character out in a blaze of glory - Trek hasn't done a great job at doing them over the years. Spocks would be the best. The only one that has worked on many levels.
Actually the second would be the sacrifice of the Enterprise in TSFS!
The other have just been soulless - intended or not. Actually Kes's season 4 departure wasn't TOO bad - still not the best.
Actually mentioning Blaze of Glory - Eddington's departure was quite good.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Exactly - they have forgotten for all the TNG movies - with probably the exception of First Contact that TNG is a ensemble show - not just Picard and Data.
And yes - every movie they show to a farking test audience they rip the guts out of. I mean look at Generations, Insurrection and now Nemesis - all three films have had swaths of scenes cut from the final edit. This HAS to impact of the whole story. As we've seen from Nemesis - it's chopped the heart out of the movie.
The movie just wasn't that good. I can't believe they hyped it the way they did.
They should have had a non 'fan' writer. Kept Stewart and Spiner out of the picture. Got a new composer for the score (or rehired James Horner ) They shouldn't have had "madman villan tries to destroy a lot of people - Picards the only one who could stop him" I mean those are the sort of movies Shatner's ego would love - but even the TOS movies didn't head in that direction!
There are just so many things wrong with Nemesis. One thing they did do right - is the company they hired for the effects. EXCEPT - Trek isn't and has NEVER been about effects. It's been about story, message and characterisation.
I've always said DS9 could have been done in a black-room and one of the TOS episodes WAS - and they'd still turn out fine.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The only thing that bugged me about Nemesis was how relaxed and silly Picard was at the Wedding. It was a bit over the top, but mabye he had already hit the "Picard 04" vintage to ease into his speach.
Some things about Nemesis were truly great though: The TNG crew fell for NONE of the obvious traps set for them and they even turned around the B9 thing by swapping Data in there. That was a truly "Trek" moment.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: [QB]
quote:No.
Again, I disagree. Although the XO scene is whitewashed, both the score and the CGI are finished for it. If you cut out the last Picard/B4 scene, the XO scene would go right after the scene between Picard and Riker in the ready room. IMO, this was a much better ending for the film.
This part I assume is in reply to me. All I meant is that the DVD is not set up to retintegrate the footage into the movie (ie, branching), which is what I thought the questioner was asking. I have no philosophical objection to retoring footage.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: The only thing that bugged me about Nemesis was how relaxed and silly Picard was at the Wedding. It was a bit over the top, but mabye he had already hit the "Picard 04" vintage to ease into his speach.
I didn't have a problem with that. Picard and Riker are old friends at this point, and it's traditional for the Best Man to take a good natured shot or two at the bridal couple before his toast.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
"one of the TOS episodes WAS [set in a featureless black room]"
This is not an episode to be proud of.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: "one of the TOS episodes WAS [set in a featureless black room]"
This is not an episode to be proud of.
Gem from "The Empath" perchance?
[ May 22, 2003, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: MrNeutron ]
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by The359: I bought my copy of the DVD today. Apparently some copies come with a CD-ROM containing a copy of the original Star Trek: Nemesis website, with trailers and the rotating iPix of the Romulan Senate and everything. My copy, unfortunatly, did not (all the Fullscreen versions seemed to have it though...).
Yeah, regarding the CD-ROM, I was thumbing through a Best Buy circular and I guess that it was a limited bonus with the DVD. According to the AD:
quote: Contains bonus Nemesis CD-ROM including 3 new Nemesis computer desktop images, a new Nemesis screensaver and 2 IPIX environments (The Romulan Senate and Valdore Bride).
Minimum 100 per store. No raincheck. In-store only
Evidently, too, it was only available with the 'widescreen' edition; unfortunately they only had the 'fullscreen' edition of it by the time I made it to the store and it was neither on sale or did it contain the CD-ROM....... Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I got the CD in my Widescreen Edition....although I really have'nt bothered to look at it yet.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Script-wise, what the hell did Wesley's speach consist of?
Also, for those that read a "spoiler" online script of Nemesis, what were the duffrences? Anything signifigant?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I dunno, the one version I found didn't have wesley in it, but it had Leah Brahms in it as Geordi's girlfriend....
Then a lot of what has been previously mentioned before...like the drinking the chateau picard together and something about an female Andorian Ops officer who meets the new XO Madden (was this in the deleted footage? i dont have the dvd).
I noticed this:
BEVERLY I'm so glad you made it back to the Enterprise before I left.
WORF I was not suited for the life of a ... diplomat.
BEVERLY (wry) Who'd have guessed?
And again, a whole bunch of other stuff that has been dicussed before or that may have been possibly included in the 7 deleted scenes...
Posted by Phoenix (Member # 966) on :
I for one am immensely glad they dropped the Worf bit. Going Targ hunting and drinking Blood Wine with Chancellor Martok would be just the life he would want, in my opinion.
Attempting to ignore his previously demonstrated character in favour of a cheap trick to get him on the Enterprise is not a very good thing to do.
And he can't be Enterprise's Tactical Officer again because he's still wearing red. Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Yeah. That'd be as crazy as Spock wearing command white while still being science officer.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
worf filled that position wearing red in season one episodes.. it wasnt until he was made security chief that he wore yellow..
perhaps the tactical post and security chief arent as intertwined as weve always assumed..
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'd just like to say that the Nemesis DVD has the worst Director's Commentary ever. The guy doesn't talk much at all, and when he does, he's WHISPERING WHILE MUMBLING. Barely audibly! What, is he afraid he'll piss off the air molecules in the recording room?! Augh!
This is to say nothing of content, which simply proves that he knows nothing of Star Trek, and is reluctant to tell us anything of the production. They really, REALLY should have had Logan in there, or Berman, or ANYONE who knows somethign of the movie. The only worse commentary I can think of right now is anything by Paul Verhoven, which basically limits itself to telling you the story as it happens. Thanks, Paramount, for the most pointless extra on any of your DVDs ever.
Augh!
Mark <--- pissed
Mark <--- MORE pissed that they'll make a SP ED release after all that remedies these problems, I'm sure.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Okay, I just bought the WS version at WalMarts for like $14.25US...I haven't opened it yet, is it worth it or should I just rent it and tape it and pray for something better on down the line?
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote: I'd just like to say that the Nemesis DVD has the worst Director's Commentary ever. The guy doesn't talk much at all, and when he does, he's WHISPERING WHILE MUMBLING. Barely audibly! What, is he afraid he'll piss off the air molecules in the recording room?! Augh!
Well, those air molecules can get awfully testy, y'know...
The commentaries on DVDs are probably the one special feature whose quality varies the most on DVDs. Some are excellent and the directors/actors are funny, entertaining and informative at the same time. Others are just boring or pointless.
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) They shouldn't have had "madman villan tries to destroy a lot of people - Picards the only one who could stop him" I mean those are the sort of movies Shatner's ego would love - but even the TOS movies didn't head in that direction!