I just watched "The Die is Cast" on SpikeTV last night, and I noticed that the set behind Admiral Toddman ((in his yellow Starfleet security admiral's uniform (!) )) was deliberately lit and styled like the Starbase 11 picture painted for TOS "Court-Martial" with a the magenta sky and bright sunset.
Has anyone noticed this?
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Don't remember noticeing it before... but then I don't even remember a yellow Admiral's uniform. Anyone have caps?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
The only time an admiral appeared in a gold uniform. It was wrong and I'm glad it never appeared again. Bad enough the ST:Mag wants to actually believe that admirals should still wear division colors.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Well, why not? Why should all admirals wear red? Most of the admirals we've seen before were red because most of the time they had something to do with fleets, so it makes sense they'd be red. Toddman was a SF security guy, so he'd be gold. If the head of SF medical was an admiral, they'd probably wear blue.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
It would make sense for the Admirals to still wear division colours. At a meeting of the higher ups it would be useful to be able to tell who is in what division at a glance
Posted by Capped in Mike (Member # 709) on :
its probably along the lines of the command division color used in the movies. if you are an admiral, you can choose between your true division, or choose the command color (like Saavik's uniform in ST:3).. or possibly you can't wear command colors if you arent certified (would Admiral McCoy wear red or blue?)
anyway, this uniform brings up an ironic point.. another flag officer who didnt wear command colors was Commodore Stone of Starbase 11, he wore an operations/services uniform. and the backgound outside Toddman's window seems purposely designed to replicate the view from Stone's office .. coincidence?
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I noticed that background too, Mike. Though I doubt that too much thought was given to the matching of the location and the uniform colors... but you never know. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The quality is because it's from a DivX rip, not the actual DVD.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
Actually, he was going to a costume party at the Wee Scottsman dressed as Admiral Stone. That explains the uniform.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I suppose that during staff meetings with many admirals, some division chiefs (starfleet intel in this case mabye) wear division colors.
So he could be gong to or coming from said meeting.
Or he could be in charge of the SCE and they wear uniforms that dont suck as bad as the other admirals.
Something.
Or mabye that harsh sun is color bleaching all his red uniforms..
Whatever the case: anything is better than the pajama top with the gold piping that we saw throught TNG.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I like the idea of division colour for Admiral. I mean WHY not - he seemed to have a pretty specific role - compared to Admiral et cetera on TNG - who usually was a Command Admiral anyway - like Necheyev or Shanthi. I'd hazard a guess that the Head of Starfleet Corps of Engineers would wear a similar admiral's uniform (If he/she/it was an admiral) as mentioned before like the Head of Starfleet Medical (if he/she/it was an admiral).
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Just to throw it in because someone mentioned it and I thought I would nitpick... Intelligence wears Red, not Gold.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
When did we see anyone specifically from SI?
THere's also "Starfleet Security" as a division (they gave the go-ahead to retrieve the USS Pegasus IIRC).
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Was going to say the same thing - we've never seen anyone from Starfleet Intelligence - and I would have assumed they were the same as Starfleet Security.
Posted by Capped in Mike (Member # 709) on :
that's what they want you to assume...
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
Wasn't that Cmdr. guy that blew up in "Conspiracy" with Intel, he wore red. Worf on DS9 was Strategic Operations Officer, is that intel?
I seem to remember specifc examples, but at the moment... it might be the benadryl... I can't.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Going off on another "IIRC" limb...
Didn't we see a flag officer in SF Intelligence service in "The Pegasus"? There was explicit dialogue on the organization there (separating it from SF Security for the very first time), and we saw at least one redshirted admiral in addition to Pressman, namely one Maggie Blackwell. Was she identified as SFI or not?
Then again, SFI might include people from several departments (or at least should have its share of staff officers, who might warrant the blue shirt), and thus could also have flag officers in several colors.
Also, FWIW, "The Search" defined the unnamed head of SF Security as a she... Which doesn't mean Toddman couldn't have replaced her soon thereafter. Or that Toddman couldn't be a she with a slight hormonal imbalance.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
And Sloan, ostensibly with Internal Affairs or something, wore red. . .
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Sloan really does'nt count as an operative on anything official.
I'd venture that Starfleet Intel. would probably be a branch of Starfleet Security and that the larger organization would have members from all branches of Starfleet, including Tactical, Medical, Command, and someone to liason with the President and the Council.
In a democracy/Republic as vast as the Federation, there's be no shortage of titles and uniforms.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
But Sloan was pretending to be part of a presumably legitmate agency. (And for that matter, may actually have been. It's implied that Section 31 draws its personnel from all over.)
(At the time, a little put off by what struck me as an unnecessary proliferation of security departments, I thought that perhaps Internal Affairs was created in the wake of fears of changeling infiltration. ((Since that would give them a more specific reason to be.)) I don't know, the name just sounds a little too police-procedurey to me.)
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yeah: Internal Affairs sounds dopey: starfleet officer's are supposed to be moral without that kind of oversight. Mabye they mostly review Prime Directive violations or something like the Temporal Investigations do (although, the TI goons would never be able to enforce of really even investigate changes to the timeline in DS9's era).
The war might've given some branches of SI unheard-of latitude during the general paranoia of Al Queida...er...Changling intfiltration. Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
From "The Pegasus":
quote: PICARD [snip!] There will be a full inquiry once we reach Starbase two-four-seven... and it will probably lead to a general court martial of Admiral Pressman and several others at Starfleet Intelligence.
This might indicate Pressman was with Intel. And he was dressed in red. But that might of course be Command red, and not Intelligence red
BTW, first mention of "Starfleet Intelligence" is in "Chain of Command", in relation to Cardassian metagenic weapons. (shameless selfpromotion)
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Thank you, Simon. It wouldn't do for Sloan to turn up, present his bogus credentials and then have everyone say "But shouldn't you be in gold?" If he was going to have those weird pips, he'd have the correct uniform to go with them.
Posted by Capped in Mike (Member # 709) on :
Remmick from "Conspiracy" was with the inspector general's office.
I don't think Pressman was meant to be a member of Starfleet Intelligence, but rather an SI affiliate.
BTW, uniform color vs. assignment really doesn't mean much.. You could be an associate of any division and still wear command colors, or be a command officer and wear some color from a division or assignment you are affiliated with. Doesn't say much for rhyme or reason, but Spock was a first officer first in command color, then in blue cuz he was a science officer too. Dr. Mulhall was a scientist but wore services/operations colors. Commodores Stone and Stocker were commanders, with Stone being a former starship captain, both wore serv/ops colors. The 3 tactical officers in Arena wore red, gold and blue. Science division Admiral Haftel wore command colors, science officer Saavik as well. Scotty switched back and forth from command color to engineering color after being promoted to captain. Sam LaVelle wore command red despite being promoted to ops. Worf wore red as a security chief for a while, then yellow, but wore red to become some tactical whatzit guy on DS9. Doctor Crusher wore command on the Pasteur. The extra captains in "Court-Martial" wore varied colors, blue included. Uhura wore gold, then red. Data switched to a red uniform for a week to become Jellico's first officer, but he didnt to become the Sutherland's captain. O'Brien wore red for a sec too.
I think that its dependant on where you are stationed and what your specific function is.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
We've also seen a member of Starfleet Intel in the one where O'brien went off to join the Orion Syndicate. His handler was with Intelligence, though he wasn't in uniform.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
I'm not sure if TOS serves as a great example for use of proper uniform color. I'd bet they just used what was on hand and fit the person who needed them.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
The quality is because it's from a DivX rip, not the actual DVD.
Here is a a DVD cap: Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The thing is, that would have to be a custom uniform. I don't think you could modify a normal TNG uniform to look like that, and we'd never seen one before, which means that the costuming department had to specifically make a gold admiral's uniform.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Wow. He gained weight on the DVD.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Indeed. Why have you taken a widescreen cap of a non-widescreen image? You idiot. Get out. Now.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
That's what you get for flying a desk.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Indeed. Why have you taken a widescreen cap of a non-widescreen image? You idiot. Get out. Now.
I took what the DVD player gave me.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Hmm. Did you have the screen maximised when you did? Because I found that sometimes PowerDVD doesn't allow for that when it resizes the screen image.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I had whatever was default. I couldn't see where it c/would differentiate between widescreen and full.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Odd. I've found that if you maximised the screen it'd either stretch or squash the picture, whereas whatever dimensions the actual film was would be retained if you resized it manually.
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